Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[Bruce]

do you have to have a qualification in a certain thing to be good at it? Ie should a person need a commerce degree or be a qualified accountant to be finance minister? Should the education minister have a teaching degree? Health minister has to have been a doctor? And so on and so on. With the level of support and personal backing them it shouldn't necessarily be a prerequisite. What is more important to me is having people capable of managing, driving, measuring and accounting for their ministry they are in charge of. Generally the best ones, but not always, are the ones who have had successful private sector roles.

A minister is merely that department's representative in cabinet.

All they really need is common sense and the ability to spend hours studying briefing papers.

Having a relevant qualification can actually be an impediment, although it doesn't have to be so.

Now the idiot who screwed the education system was a grocery executive, he should have had educational experience and qualifications. He didn't. The education ministers at the time included David Lange, who had a masters Degree in Law, so should have known a little about education.

The cabinet ministers who oversaw the disastrous Police merger with the MOT in the 1990s included John Banks and Clem Simich. Both conservative law and order advocates. Simich had been a Police Detective, John Banks mixed closely with senior Police and is regarded as one of the more sympathetic Police Ministers in terms of front line staff.

So opposite ends of the spectrum, and they boths stuffed up badly.

Discuss

 

[John Nick]

Looking back at the qualifications of the most famous, or infamous, ministers of finance of the 80’s and 90’s, Ruth Richardson had a law degree but both Douglas and Muldoon had accountancy backgrounds…. considering the last two, perhaps a background in commerce or accounting shouldn’t be a prerequisite

Don't know about Douglas but I met Muldoon many times and tbf early in his accounting career.
Two words stand out.
"Fuckin wombat "

 

[Bruce]

Don't know about Douglas but I met Muldoon many times and tbf early in his accounting career.
Two words stand out.
"Fuckin wombat "

he actually regarded himself as a genius, I think psychopath was probably more accurate.

 

[kos]

Muldoon calling a short notice election and while being interviwed by nzbc was clearly drunk

The price controls
The wage controls

None of it worked

 

[Bruce]

Looking back at the qualifications of the most famous, or infamous, ministers of finance of the 80’s and 90’s, Ruth Richardson had a law degree but both Douglas and Muldoon had accountancy backgrounds…. considering the last two, perhaps a background in commerce or accounting shouldn’t be a prerequisite

Richardson and Douglas were heavily influenced by the apparent simplicity of Friedman economics.
Muldoon, who was a straight out politician could see the social harm that would follow "trickle down", and was correct.
The trouble is socialism had caused a bloated civil service, with lazy bastards sitting on their arses all day.
Us dinosaurs can remember places like the old P&T which became Telecom.
It was no an easy fix, that fact they have got it wrong makes it even worse.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

do you have to have a qualification in a certain thing to be good at it? Ie should a person need a commerce degree or be a qualified accountant to be finance minister? Should the education minister have a teaching degree? Health minister has to have been a doctor? And so on and so on. With the level of support and personal backing them it shouldn't necessarily be a prerequisite. What is more important to me is having people capable of managing, driving, measuring and accounting for their ministry they are in charge of. Generally the best ones, but not always, are the ones who have had successful private sector roles.

In theory a politician does governance and oversees the portfolio with the expertise coming from those working within the Ministry.

But in caucus you need a variety of expertise including business and finance. When cabinet (rather than the ministries) make complex overarching decision eg how to fight inflation; that affect multiple portfolios with competing demands, you need the intellectual brain power to think through the ramifications and unintended consequences when you don’t have the expert advice on hand.

 

[Bruce]

In theory a politician does governance and oversees the portfolio with the expertise coming from those working within the Ministry.

But in caucus you need a variety of expertise including business and finance. When cabinet (rather than the ministries) make complex overarching decision eg how to fight inflation; that affect multiple portfolios with competing demands, you need the intellectual brain power to think through the ramifications and unintended consequences when you don’t have the advice on hand.

The issue is the same here as it is in other similar democracies.

The money for an MP is pathetic.
They have a job for three years unless they get a safe seat or a high spot on the list. In Merka a Congress sets is for 2 years.
Most smart people find a career, work at it, and build on it. They don't chop and change jobs, although they may change companies.
That is a different culture as could be.

I think the reason we get dropkicks in parliament is obvious.

 

[John Nick]

The issue is the same here as it is in other similar democracies.

The money for an MP is pathetic.
They have a job for three years unless they get a safe seat or a high spot on the list. In Merka a Congress sets is for 2 years.
Most smart people find a career, work at it, and build on it. They don't chop and change jobs, although they may change companies.
That is a different culture as could be.

I think the reason we get dropkicks in parliament is obvious.

Dropkick??
More appropriately "Shifty Bastards".
Just watching the news as we type.
Proof enough.

 

[snake77]

Skim reading Treasury's PREFU yesterday, and then listening to Robertson, it became abuntantly clear to me that the government shouldn't be dissecting the report to the media. Far too much glossing over details and spinning

The actual report was fairly well-written and contained a lot of clear assumptions, risks and analysis.

The crazy thing is, as Juju has mentioned, the experts are the ones in Treasury. Certainly not the people who end up presenting it

Similar things are happening in workplaces around the country. Writing reports, or presentations for their managers to present even though they don't understand it.

I've often been called into meetings as I've told my boss something isn't possible or there is a better way to do something. My boss says he understands but can't explain it. So I get called into a meeting with him and the expert on the product who hasn't tested it properly and end up needing to explain it to both of them.

They like to whiteboard. Sometimes crayons might work better.

 

[Bruce]

Auckland Council ...
ladies and jellybeans...it is well forecast that we have a serious El Nino weather pattern on the way.

That means probably three years of drought.
Last time that happened was about 2018. They instituted a sprinkler ban to save water that December.

So, considering we are not getting much rain now, and the Upper Huia Dam is only 79% full, WTF not institute the ban right now!!!

Maybe:

They are bunch of morons or
They are milking the water rates to pay the bills or
BOTH

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Joke of the week:

Robertson and Labour have a new policy to teach financial management to school kids

 

[Bruce]

Muldoon calling a short notice election and while being interviwed by nzbc was clearly drunk

He was drunk a lot of the time. Many politicians are, some are quote good natured with it though.

Muldoon apparently could be legless wrapped around a female against a wall until the early hours, then have a shower and some after shave and be as sharp as tack.

Bob Jones tells the story of a wild pissup they had at his place in Lower Hutt. Jones went out to his pool to see his sister trying to drown Muldoon, who was drunk, for some reason.

Jones's sister totally denied any knowledge of the incident!!!

That is an ugly town.

Anthony Scaramucci, the intelligent press secretary that Trump fired after few weeks , and who is a successful hedge fund manager tells the story of some of the really terrible people you can meet in business in New York.

He says they are way worse in Washington DC.

I am sure that applies here. Wellington is a viper pit.

 

[Mr Drag]

I'm going to call It! Labour cant win without Shaun Johnson!

 

[Bruce]

Dropkick??
More appropriately "Shifty Bastards".
Just watching the news as we type.
Proof enough.

Sadly, rightly or wrongly, as I have posted before. I have known many politicians. the good ones had gone into it with all the best intentions but the system usually beat them down.

I remember one very intelligent guy, we were drinking and Warriors mates. He was determined not to be dragged into the childish squabbles the house is famous for. He stuck to that, I don't know if he achieved anything though. He died in the job sadly, very young too.

 

[Rick O’Shay]

So none of the so called experts on here cannot or are not prepared to explain why we have to settle for unqualified financial personnel no matter who we vote for or who enters parliament.
Pretty sad endictment of our electorate system.
Listening to Willis a week or so ago and her taxation policy she says "trust me. I have done the figures ".
Couldn't explain the policy was a retake of a policy that was suggested by a very qualified financial person (John Key)
who after expert advice found the policy was either illegal or unworkable or untenable. Take your pick.
Not convincing enough for me.

Not that I like the guy but Luxon has a M.Com so figure he can read a balance sheet/P&L and have a rudimentary understanding of macro economics.

Maybe when he gets the arse and Willis takes over he'll get the finance gig.

 

[dean]

I know some of them, I wouldn't put my dog in them.

Your dog would be a better tenant than many wanting to rent the place. That is one of the reasons people would rather leave their house vacant.

 

[Rick O’Shay]

Dropkick??
More appropriately "Shifty Bastards".
Just watching the news as we type.
Proof enough.

Drones is another good description. MMP and list MPs have a lot to answer for.
Seems to me that in any party there's really only 4 or 5 max who run the show. The rest are there to stand behind the talker and vigorously nod their heads. Toeing the party/leader line would exclude having an opinion methinks.

 

[John Nick]

Drones is another good description. MMP and list MPs have a lot to answer for.
Seems to me that in any party there's really only 4 or 5 max who run the show. The rest are there to stand behind the talker and vigorously nod their heads. Toeing the party/leader line would exclude having an opinion methinks.

Funny you say that Rick.
Every time I see Luxon and Willis together I imagine her with her hand up his back and wearing him like a glove puppet.

 

[John Nick]

Auckland Council ...
ladies and jellybeans...it is well forecast that we have a serious El Nino weather pattern on the way.

That means probably three years of drought.
Last time that happened was about 2018. They instituted a sprinkler ban to save water that December.

So, considering we are not getting much rain now, and the Upper Huia Dam is only 79% full, WTF not institute the ban right now!!!

Maybe:

They are bunch of morons or
They are milking the water rates to pay the bills or
BOTH

Wellington already predicted to run out of water and fires are very much on the cards

 

[Noitall]

Funny you say that Rick.
Every time I see Luxon and Willis together I imagine her with her hand up his back and wearing him like a glove puppet.

No need for those sort of images this time of the morning.