Social 🎧 Finding Heidi podcast

[wizard of Tauranga]

Probably you’ve already discussed this issue, anyway … If someone planted the couple’s gear along the track up to Crosbie’s Clearing from Tararu Creek Road (July-December 1989: jacket, wallet, tent …) this someone (DT was imprisoned in May) must have had something to do with the case and was still around the aerea at the time … (the tent was mysteriously easy found in December 1989, 8 months after the swedes disseapperance), or?

1 - The Turners - they were linked to the case and could have tried to frame DT? Shift the blame completely onto him?

2 - Or police - trying to solidify their case - a few of the officers were famous for dodgy practice back then.

My personal opinion is the Turners probably did it either with Tamahere or Tamahere wasn’t involved but was close to them (doing other dodgy stuff) and they used him to get rid of the car/ gear.

 

[Beastmode]

1 - The Turners - they were linked to the case and could have tried to frame DT? Shift the blame completely onto him?

2 - Or police - trying to solidify their case - a few of the officers were famous for dodgy practice back then.

My personal opinion is the Turners probably did it either with Tamahere or Tamahere wasn’t involved but was close to them (doing other dodgy stuff) and they used him to get rid of the car/ gear.

When the reporter / Ryan initially phoned Turner he answered with such conviction saying to Ryan that he knows everything and all the answers to his questions but wanted the interview to be done face to face. Then he chickened out on the interview. His raw, non premeditated response to Ryan on that phone call, not knowing who Ryan was or what he wanted, told me Turner was definitely involved …

 

[Elias]

When the reporter / Ryan initially phoned Turner he answered with such conviction saying to Ryan that he knows everything and all the answers to his questions but wanted the interview to be done face to face. Then he chickened out on the interview. His raw, non premeditated response to Ryan on that phone call, not knowing who Ryan was or what he wanted, told me Turner was definitely involved …

I think someone left/planted the Subaru at the top of Tararu Creek Road to give the impression that this was the last spot the Swedes visited before they dissappeard. And when that bait was ironically taken by Detective Inspector John Hughes (“The Gardener”) this someone later on planted some more teasers to keep the Police busy at the wrong place.

 

[Elias]

Heidi’s wallet (papers inside, maybe) was contaminated with two unknown fingerprints (says Ian Wishart, 2012; did Ryan Wolf say it too, 2023?). Is that case yet solved?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Heidi’s wallet (papers inside, maybe) was contaminated with two unknown fingerprints (says Ian Wishart, 2012; did Ryan Wolf say it too, 2023?). Is that case yet solved?

Sounds like your following it closer than we are

Fill us in with what you think? Who done it?

 

[Elias]

Sounds like your following it closer than we are

Fill us in with what you think? Who done it?

Why take a life time to protect those who framed you (DT; if/when he found out he was entrapped!).

No, I think DT wouldn’t be that stupid to pollute his tracks with so many evidence against him; stay at a backpackers inn 5 minutes from where he stole the Subaru, drive around another Swede (who even looked like Urban!) in the area in a car that had belonged to a Swedish couple he just murdered, leave a prescription medicine with the name tag ”Heidi Paakkonen” in the room at the inn in Thames before leaving for Auckland (Wishart, 2012; did Ryan Wolf mention that, 2023?), pawn the Swedish couples gear (backpack/s, binoculars …) using Urban Hoglins identification paper (from the car)!, give his own child a poncho/jacket that the Crown used as proof as the one Heidi was covered in at Crosbie’s Clearing when DT was pitching (”pinching”) a tent there next to her.

That doesn’t make any sense after a successfull hiding of bodies DT just murdered, where one remains is stilling missing after 35 years!

As you point out, the Turner-track is even my option for the moment, though excluding DT.

 

[Beastmode]

Why take a life time to protect those who framed you (DT; if/when he found out he was entrapped!).

Could be a case of you nark - you die

And who’s going to believe anything he says anyway, if he flips and flops his story?

In my eyes it’s a lose lose situation either way for DT. His best hope is for someone in shining armour like a Ryan Wolf to uncover something or someone to step forward - all very unlikely from what I can tell

 

[Elias]

About the possibilty of two set of Subaru keys (DT claims he found a set in the glovebox) Ian Wishart says in Missing Pieces (2012), page 147

”Per Eric Andersson, who sold the couple the Subaru in December 1988, gave them only one key and warned them it had a crack in it, ’but it should be OK’.

What would you do if you’d just spent your life savings on a car you planned to travel to the back in the beyond in, in a strange country, and you had only one, cracked, key between you. //

In other words it’s possible and some would say probable that prudent tourists - like Urban and Heidi - would have ensured they had a spare for all contingencies.

Sharon Stray, a canadian tourist who hiked around the South Island with the couple, wasn’t aware of a cracked key, and told the court the couple’s key ring had up to four keys when she saw it. //

Had Urban and Heidi split the set of four into two sets of two? We simply don’t know. Would the couple normally leave a spare set in the car, or would they carry a set each? Again, we simply don’t know.”

Did Ryan Wolf say something about this in his pod? Did he mention what DT did with the keys he used?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

About the possibilty of two set of Subaru keys (DT claims he found a set in the glovebox) Ian Wishart says in Missing Pieces (2012), page 147

”Per Eric Andersson, who sold the couple the Subaru in December 1988, gave them only one key and warned them it had a crack in it, ’but it should be OK’.

What would you do if you’d just spent your life savings on a car you planned to travel to the back in the beyond in, in a strange country, and you had only one, cracked, key between you. //

In other words it’s possible and some would say probable that prudent tourists - like Urban and Heidi - would have ensured they had a spare for all contingencies.

Sharon Stray, a canadian tourist who hiked around the South Island with the couple, wasn’t aware of a cracked key, and told the court the couple’s key ring had up to four keys when she saw it. //

Had Urban and Heidi split the set of four into two sets of two? We simply don’t know. Would the couple normally leave a spare set in the car, or would they carry a set each? Again, we simply don’t know.”

Did Ryan Wolf say something about this in his pod? Did he mention what DT did with the keys he used?

Do you think DT was involved at all? Surely it would be to big a coincidence for 1 - him to know the Turners (also family property nearby where Sven was killed); 2 - him to be a convicted killer 3 - to happen to steal the car of people that were then killed by unrelated others. Just too many coincidences.

I still feel he either knew about the killing (himself and the Turners) or didn’t know and was framed by the Turners (possibly given the car and gear to get rid of). It’s almost impossible he was innocently in the wrong place at the wrong time.

About the keys, if you cut spare keys, wouldn’t you keep them on yourself? There is a lot of what ifs to suggest they actually cut keys (no key cutter was found despite a nationwide search to confirmed this) then leave it in a locked car (rendering them useless if the purpose of cutting was to cover losing the first set), then leave it in the glovebox where it’s easily found rather than better hidden, then DT deciding to take the car (despite no reassurances of a key when he broke in) rather than just burgle it, and then the timeframe to get up there and steal it doesn’t work. To many coincidences again when Occam’s razor says the easiest explanation is he got the key directly from them?

DT is a dodgy fella who kept changing his story and was already on the run for similar behaviour so got everything he deserved.

 

[Fonzie]

The podcast included a number of witnesses who saw Tamihere with the Swedes on or around the property where Urban was found. When you add that to what Wizard described above I find it hard to see how he wasn’t involved.

 

[dean]

We have all had a time when our gut tells us something is wrong. That primal instinct is always right. Crossing paths with Tamihere just prior to the murders was that moment for me.

 

[Juno]

We have all had a time when our gut tells us something is wrong. That primal instinct is always right. Crossing paths with Tamihere just prior to the murders was that moment for me.

Except serial killers like Bundy manage to fool people.
I think he's involved but don't think he's the mastermind behind all the manouvering that happened, and thats my instincts talking.
By all accounts he wasn't the full quid cognitively & hadn't been all his life. Animalistically cunning for sure & like all that live in the shadows, charming enough when convenient and inhumane when it suited.
I believe there is too much unanswered for it to have been all him.
People smarter than him kept their lips sealed and things were tidied up where anything led directly to others.
An easy enough patsy all around for cops and villians.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

We have all had a time when our gut tells us something is wrong. That primal instinct is always right. Crossing paths with Tamihere just prior to the murders was that moment for me.

Tell us more? You met Tamahere just before the murders?

 

[dean]

Except serial killers like Bundy manage to fool people.
I think he's involved but don't think he's the mastermind behind all the manouvering that happened, and thats my instincts talking.
By all accounts he wasn't the full quid cognitively & hadn't been all his life. Animalistically cunning for sure & like all that live in the shadows, charming enough when convenient and inhumane when it suited.
I believe there is too much unanswered for it to have been all him.
People smarter than him kept their lips sealed and things were tidied up where anything led directly to others.
An easy enough patsy all around for cops and villians.

He hadn't met the Swedes when I met him, but he had killed. He showed no aggression toward me but I was very uneasy in his company, a 20min ride in my car. I don't know where you get the impression he was not the full the quid cognitively because that is the opposite to my impression. He was talkative, plausible, knowledgeable, at least at first glance. There may be others involved, I have no idea, but I am certain he was involved either alone or as a major player.

 

[BabylonPink]

Motive ?
Cover up?

I can understand police framing a guy who is conveniently also a criminal. No loose ends etc. Glory glory cops are great etc.

But the rest is confusing.
Turners swapping cars and saying hey DT go for a joyride makes sense.
How close were the cops and the turners?

 

[dean]

Tell us more? You met Tamahere just before the murders?

I was travelling to Hamilton from Coromandel. It was about 6.45am and I was just heading out of Thames. I saw a bloke walking along the roadside with a big pack, I stopped and offered him a lift if he was travelling in the same direction. He accepted my offer and got in. He was about 5' 10', very compact, wearing black shorts, red swandri shirt and tramping boots of some sort. He had a large knife in a sheath strapped to his hip.
I took him to Hikutaia and was very relieved to see the back of him. He told me he mainly lived in the bush and that he could walk and did from one end of the Coromandel to the other without being seen, avoiding people. He said he knew how to trap, eat wild berries etc, sort of survivalist.
He told me he had been an oil rig worker off Taranaki and a rigger. I knew a bit about these jobs and knew he was lying. I was thinking how I would hate to come across him in the bush, I was very unnerved by him. I had been around some intimidating people but he was completely different.
This was about a week before they went missing. My evidence contributed to establishing a timeline, I gave evidence at depositions and the trial.
I met John Hughes on several occasions. I was a minor witness in a big case.

 

[BabylonPink]

I was travelling to Hamilton from Coromandel. It was about 6.45am and I was just heading out of Thames. I saw a bloke walking along the roadside with a big pack, I stopped and offered him a lift if he was travelling in the same direction. He accepted my offer and got in. He was about 5' 10', very compact, wearing black shorts, red swandri shirt and tramping boots of some sort. He had a large knife in a sheath strapped to his hip.
I took him to Hikutaia and was very relieved to see the back of him. He told me he mainly lived in the bush and that he could walk and did from one end of the Coromandel to the other without being seen, avoiding people. He said he knew how to trap, eat wild berries etc, sort of survivalist.
He told me he had been an oil rig worker off Taranaki and a rigger. I knew a bit about these jobs and knew he was lying. I was thinking how I would hate to come across him in the bush, I was very unnerved by him. I had been around some intimidating people but he was completely different.
This was about a week before they went missing. My evidence contributed to establishing a timeline, I gave evidence at depositions and the trial.
I met John Hughes on several occasions. I was a minor witness in a big case.

What's your hypothesis?

 

[dean]

What's your hypothesis?

I think Tamihere did it, probably alone. He seems a lone wolf. Much of the Police case was circumstantial and has been found to be incorrect, but I don't think he was set up, or a patsy. Dope growing was a big industry back then and sum of the more recent suspects would have been right in the middle of that scene, I wouldn'd trust anything they said.

 

[Elias]

Do you think DT was involved at all? Surely it would be to big a coincidence for 1 - him to know the Turners (also family property nearby where Sven was killed); 2 - him to be a convicted killer 3 - to happen to steal the car of people that were then killed by unrelated others. Just too many coincidences.

I still feel he either knew about the killing (himself and the Turners) or didn’t know and was framed by the Turners (possibly given the car and gear to get rid of). It’s almost impossible he was innocently in the wrong place at the wrong time.

About the keys, if you cut spare keys, wouldn’t you keep them on yourself? There is a lot of what ifs to suggest they actually cut keys (no key cutter was found despite a nationwide search to confirmed this) then leave it in a locked car (rendering them useless if the purpose of cutting was to cover losing the first set), then leave it in the glovebox where it’s easily found rather than better hidden, then DT deciding to take the car (despite no reassurances of a key when he broke in) rather than just burgle it, and then the timeframe to get up there and steal it doesn’t work. To many coincidences again when Occam’s razor says the easiest explanation is he got the key directly from them?

DT is a dodgy fella who kept changing his story and was already on the run for similar behaviour so got everything he deserved.

Nah, I just want the Subaru-keys- issue out of the system!

In which episode of ”finding Heidi” did Ryan talk about it? (Is it possible to read the summaries about the contents of the episodes somewhere; now there are just dizzy chapter headings to read and they do not say much.)

Did DT explain the looks of the keys to the police? Where did they go after he had abandoned the car in Auckland? Did he toss them togheter with some other items in a bin, or?

(I think the police went back with DT where he had left the Subaru, and they rummaged around in a bin looking for passports and other stuff DT said he had tossed there.)

Is it possible to get hold of the preliminary investigation protocol? This case must have it out there somewhere, or?

 

[Moahunter]

Anyone else been listening to this? It’s a cracking yarn about an absolute tragedy.

A cracking yarn? You tell that to her mother you freak.