Social ⚔️ Palestine, Israel war.

[Rizzah]

But armed groups like Hamas seeking self determination, and just like the IDF, can’t indiscriminately or intentionally attack civilians. In breaking the ceasefire when Hamas attacked Israel and targeted civilians is just as guilty as Israel is in its targeting of civilians in its attacks on Gaza.

Palestinian armed groups must be held accountable

Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups flagrantly violated international law and displayed a chilling disregard for human life.

amnesty.org.nz

Breaking the ceasefire? Lol.

 

[miket12]

Breaking the ceasefire? Lol.

There was a ceasefire established in 2021. The attacks in October by Hamas broke that ceasefire.

 

[Rizzah]

There was a ceasefire established in 2021. The attacks in October by Hamas broke that ceasefire.

A ceasefire between who? Israel and Hamas? Israel killed approx 250 civilians in 2023 before October 7. Wake up.

 

[miket12]

A ceasefire between who? Israel and Hamas? Israel killed approx 250 civilians in 2023 before October 7. Wake up.

Why then do both Israeli and Palestinian journalists/authors say there has been no conflict between Hamas and Israel since the signing of the 2021 ceasefire. In fact, Hamas refrained from joining Palestine Islamic Jihad in three separate rounds of confrontations with Israel.

https://carnegieendowment.org/sada/90836

Hamas sought to reach West Bank with Oct. 7 onslaught, spark wider war — report

Washington Post says terrorists sought to attack cities, military bases in planned deeper incursion; terror group gathered intelligence from laborers who worked in Israel

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Noitall]

Massive pro Palestinian march in Auckland today. With talk of america scaling back its weapons and aid it’s been providing Ukraine, is it likely those means will be going to Israel?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Honestly surprised at the interest in this conflict. We have wars all round the world all the time without as many protests.

For context, there is a current seperate wars in Suden, Yemen, Somalia and Columbia that have had more deaths in the last few years.

And 37 wars with 100+ deaths this year.

Is there more people in NZ from this region? The US influence? The historical context? Religious element?

 

[Rizzah]

Why then do both Israeli and Palestinian journalists/authors say there has been no conflict between Hamas and Israel since the signing of the 2021 ceasefire. In fact, Hamas refrained from joining Palestine Islamic Jihad in three separate rounds of confrontations with Israel.

https://carnegieendowment.org/sada/90836

Hamas sought to reach West Bank with Oct. 7 onslaught, spark wider war — report

Washington Post says terrorists sought to attack cities, military bases in planned deeper incursion; terror group gathered intelligence from laborers who worked in Israel

www.timesofisrael.com

Are Hamas only held to the terms of a ceasefire? Or does the killing of civilians by Israel not count, because they aren't Hamas fighters?

 

[NZDoug]

Are Hamas only held to the terms of a ceasefire? Or does the killing of civilians by Israel not count, because they aren't Hamas fighters?

Israel is playing the “Terrorists” card by promoting them then killing them.

 

[Rizzah]

Are Hamas only held to the terms of a ceasefire? Or does the killing of civilians by Israel not count, because they aren't Hamas fighters?

Also, Israel is still killing civilians and destroying infrastructure in the West Bank, Jewish settlers are still taking land from Palestinians (against international law). Hamas isn't active in the West Bank, it's overseen by the Palestinian Authority.

 

[Rizzah]

View: https://x.com/prem_thakker/status/1734227200667275471?s=20

 

[miket12]

Also, Israel is still killing civilians and destroying infrastructure in the West Bank, Jewish settlers are still taking land from Palestinians (against international law). Hamas isn't active in the West Bank, it's overseen by the Palestinian Authority.

While I agree that confiscating land from the West Bank is wrong, the West Bank wasn't part of Palestine but was occupied by Jordan after the 1949 Israel-Arab War and was then occupied by Israel after the 1967 War who then established the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank in 1994 as part of the Gaza–Jericho Agreement between the PLO and the government of Israel. People also forget that Gaza wasn't free after the 1948 Arab-Israel war but was occupied by Egypt until 1967.

Personally, I struggle with Israel's justifications for their actions in the West Bank and allowing settlers to take land..... but the way Arab countries have "encouraged" Jews to go back to Israel through persecution and forced emigration has not helped the situation either.

The 1948-49 Jewish Arab War led to riots in Morocco where 44 Jews were killed and 18,000 left for Israel. More riots against Jews led to another 60,000 leaving for Israel in the late 1950's. 1960 and another 50,000 left. Before the 1948-49 War, there was an estimated 250,000-265000 Jews in Morocco, by 2001, just over 5,000 remained.

Algeria has less than 1,000 Jews left now when there was once over 140,000.

Tunisia had over 105,000 prior to 1948.... persecution has now meant there is less the 1,500 after the rest left.

Libya had over 38,000 Jews after WW2, in 1977, only 16 were left.

In 1948, there were approximately 150,000 Jews in Iraq based mostly in Baghdad and Basra. In 1949, the Iraqi government agreed that 50,000 Jews could leave for Israel in exchange for 100,000 Palestinian refugees. Over half the Jewish population left but the Iraqi government accepted less than 5,000 Palestinians. Today, there is 35 Jews left in Iraq. When British troops captured Basra, they found one Jewish lady still living there.

Egypt had over 70,000 Jews living there in 1948, by 1967, there was less than two dozen.

63,000 lived in Yemen in 1948, now there is estimated to be 50 left.

24,000 lived in Lebanon in 1948, now there is less than 40.

30,000 lived in Syria in 1948, now there is 13.

Much in the same way, Israel is "depopulating" and confiscating land the West Bank and moving in settlers, Jordan did the same to the Jewish population there after 1948.

Bahrain had a Jewish population of 1,500 after 1948, in 2006, 36 remain.

There are less than 30,000 Jews left in Iran.... in 1948, there was between 140,000 to 150,000.

Of a Jewish population of over 100,000 in 1930 in Turkey, less than 16,000 Jews remain there.

Afghanistan had a Jewish population of over 40,000... the last Jew died there in 2021.

At the time of Pakistani independence, there was over 1,500 Jews leaving there, there are none now.

Sudan had between 800-1,000 Jews prior to the 1967 War, persecution after the war meant the last Jew left there in 1970.

In total, of the estimated 950,000 Jews living in Muslim countries in 1948, only an estimated 27,400 Jews still remaining there. Of the 920,000 who left these countries, over 600,000 went to Israel. Unfortunately, these people and their descendants need to live somewhere.

 

[Rizzah]

View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0w4Svlr2oR/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

[Rizzah]

While I agree that confiscating land from the West Bank is wrong, the West Bank wasn't part of Palestine but was occupied by Jordan after the 1949 Israel-Arab War and was then occupied by Israel after the 1967 War who then established the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank in 1994 as part of the Gaza–Jericho Agreement between the PLO and the government of Israel. People also forget that Gaza wasn't free after the 1948 Arab-Israel war but was occupied by Egypt until 1967.

Personally, I struggle with Israel's justifications for their actions in the West Bank and allowing settlers to take land..... but the way Arab countries have "encouraged" Jews to go back to Israel through persecution and forced emigration has not helped the situation either.

The 1948-49 Jewish Arab War led to riots in Morocco where 44 Jews were killed and 18,000 left for Israel. More riots against Jews led to another 60,000 leaving for Israel in the late 1950's. 1960 and another 50,000 left. Before the 1948-49 War, there was an estimated 250,000-265000 Jews in Morocco, by 2001, just over 5,000 remained.

Algeria has less than 1,000 Jews left now when there was once over 140,000.

Tunisia had over 105,000 prior to 1948.... persecution has now meant there is less the 1,500 after the rest left.

Libya had over 38,000 Jews after WW2, in 1977, only 16 were left.

In 1948, there were approximately 150,000 Jews in Iraq based mostly in Baghdad and Basra. In 1949, the Iraqi government agreed that 50,000 Jews could leave for Israel in exchange for 100,000 Palestinian refugees. Over half the Jewish population left but the Iraqi government accepted less than 5,000 Palestinians. Today, there is 35 Jews left in Iraq. When British troops captured Basra, they found one Jewish lady still living there.

Egypt had over 70,000 Jews living there in 1948, by 1967, there was less than two dozen.

63,000 lived in Yemen in 1948, now there is estimated to be 50 left.

24,000 lived in Lebanon in 1948, now there is less than 40.

30,000 lived in Syria in 1948, now there is 13.

Much in the same way, Israel is "depopulating" and confiscating land the West Bank and moving in settlers, Jordan did the same to the Jewish population there after 1948.

Bahrain had a Jewish population of 1,500 after 1948, in 2006, 36 remain.

There are less than 30,000 Jews left in Iran.... in 1948, there was between 140,000 to 150,000.

Of a Jewish population of over 100,000 in 1930 in Turkey, less than 16,000 Jews remain there.

Afghanistan had a Jewish population of over 40,000... the last Jew died there in 2021.

At the time of Pakistani independence, there was over 1,500 Jews leaving there, there are none now.

Sudan had between 800-1,000 Jews prior to the 1967 War, persecution after the war meant the last Jew left there in 1970.

In total, of the estimated 950,000 Jews living in Muslim countries in 1948, only an estimated 27,400 Jews still remaining there. Of the 920,000 who left these countries, over 600,000 went to Israel. Unfortunately, these people and their descendants need to live somewhere.

And you don't see the connection here? What happened in 1948 to upset the middle eastern Arab populations?

 

[Rizzah]

View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzKVNgTRZNp/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

[Rizzah]

View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzwXjsOxY-q/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

[Rizzah]

While I agree that confiscating land from the West Bank is wrong, the West Bank wasn't part of Palestine but was occupied by Jordan after the 1949 Israel-Arab War and was then occupied by Israel after the 1967 War who then established the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank in 1994 as part of the Gaza–Jericho Agreement between the PLO and the government of Israel. People also forget that Gaza wasn't free after the 1948 Arab-Israel war but was occupied by Egypt until 1967.

Personally, I struggle with Israel's justifications for their actions in the West Bank and allowing settlers to take land..... but the way Arab countries have "encouraged" Jews to go back to Israel through persecution and forced emigration has not helped the situation either.

The 1948-49 Jewish Arab War led to riots in Morocco where 44 Jews were killed and 18,000 left for Israel. More riots against Jews led to another 60,000 leaving for Israel in the late 1950's. 1960 and another 50,000 left. Before the 1948-49 War, there was an estimated 250,000-265000 Jews in Morocco, by 2001, just over 5,000 remained.

Algeria has less than 1,000 Jews left now when there was once over 140,000.

Tunisia had over 105,000 prior to 1948.... persecution has now meant there is less the 1,500 after the rest left.

Libya had over 38,000 Jews after WW2, in 1977, only 16 were left.

In 1948, there were approximately 150,000 Jews in Iraq based mostly in Baghdad and Basra. In 1949, the Iraqi government agreed that 50,000 Jews could leave for Israel in exchange for 100,000 Palestinian refugees. Over half the Jewish population left but the Iraqi government accepted less than 5,000 Palestinians. Today, there is 35 Jews left in Iraq. When British troops captured Basra, they found one Jewish lady still living there.

Egypt had over 70,000 Jews living there in 1948, by 1967, there was less than two dozen.

63,000 lived in Yemen in 1948, now there is estimated to be 50 left.

24,000 lived in Lebanon in 1948, now there is less than 40.

30,000 lived in Syria in 1948, now there is 13.

Much in the same way, Israel is "depopulating" and confiscating land the West Bank and moving in settlers, Jordan did the same to the Jewish population there after 1948.

Bahrain had a Jewish population of 1,500 after 1948, in 2006, 36 remain.

There are less than 30,000 Jews left in Iran.... in 1948, there was between 140,000 to 150,000.

Of a Jewish population of over 100,000 in 1930 in Turkey, less than 16,000 Jews remain there.

Afghanistan had a Jewish population of over 40,000... the last Jew died there in 2021.

At the time of Pakistani independence, there was over 1,500 Jews leaving there, there are none now.

Sudan had between 800-1,000 Jews prior to the 1967 War, persecution after the war meant the last Jew left there in 1970.

In total, of the estimated 950,000 Jews living in Muslim countries in 1948, only an estimated 27,400 Jews still remaining there. Of the 920,000 who left these countries, over 600,000 went to Israel. Unfortunately, these people and their descendants need to live somewhere.

You also didn't address the ceasefire question. Are both parties not held to the ceasefire?

 

[miket12]

And you don't see the connection here? What happened in 1948 to upset the middle eastern Arab populations?

They started a war because they didn't like the two state situation as agreed by the UN. BTW, who defended Israel? The Israeli Defense Force was formed with what was the Haganah (formed in 1920) and the Palmach (formed in 1941) who had been formed to stop attacks by Palestinian Arabs on Palestinian Jews. This conflict goes back far further than just unprovoked attack by Arab countries.

Here's some history for you to consider prior to the establishment of Israel.... Nazi inspired pograms in Algeria in the 1930's. Attacks in Iraq called the Farhud where 180 Iraqi Jews were murdered and 700 injured. Egypt, 1945, four hundred Jews injured and property vandalised and looted. Libya, 1945, 130 Jews killed 266 injured. Yemen, 97 Jews were murdered and 120 injured.

Syria, 1947. 13 Jews killed in Damascus including 8 children. In Aleppo, rioting resulted in dozen of Jewish casualties, damage to 150 Jewish homes, and the torching of 5 schools and 10 synagogues.

Makes you wonder then why the Jews and latter Israel would defend themselves when they were attacked eight times..... in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, 1982, 2006, 2021 and 2023.

And what about attacks by Palestinian Arabs on Palestinian Jews which led to the forming of the Hagahah in 1920 and attacks afterwards:
Battle of Tel, March 1920, 8 Jews killed
Nebi Musa riots, April 1920, 5 Jews killed and 216 wounded
Jaffa riots, May 1921, 47 Jews killed and 140 wounded
Jerusalem stabbings, November 1921, 5 Jews killed, multiple wounded including women and children
Palestine riots, August 1929, 133 Jews killed and 339 wounded including the Hebron massacre where 67 jews killed and 58 wounded and the Safed massacre where 18 Jews killed and 80 wounded
Jaffa riots, April 1936, 16 Jews killed and 40 wounded
Safed killings, August 1937, four members of a Jewish family including three children willed.
Har Haruach ambush, November 1937, 5 workers killed
Haifa, March 1938, 6 Jews killed while travelling from Haifa to Safed
Atlit kidnapping, August 1938, 3 members of one family killed
Tiberias pogrom, October 1938, 19 Jews killed
Jerusalem riots, December 1947, 8 jews killed
Haifa snipers, December 1947, 4 Jews killed
Civilian convoy attacked, December 1947, 7 Jews killed
Bab el Wad snipers, December 1947, 5 Jews killed
Tel Aviv, December 1947, 4 Jews killed from mortar and sniper fire
Haifa Oil Refinery massacre, December 1947, 39 Jews murdered and 49 wounded
Jersalem, January 1948, 3 Jews killed by Arab militants
Yavne, January 1948, 11 Jews killed
Haifa, January 1948, 7 Jews killed
Convoy of 35, January 1948, 35 Jews in a convoy going to drop supplies to a kibbutzim near Hebron killed
Yehiam, January 1948, 8 Jews killed
Yazur, January 1948, 7 Jews killed
Haifa, January 1948, 10 Jews killed
Haifa, February 1948, 6 Jewish bus passengers killed
Haifa, February 1948, 3 Jews killed
Jerusalem, February 1948, 6 Jews killed
Tel Aviv, February 1948, 3 Jews killed
Jerusalem, February 1948, 4 Jews killed
Clash between Arab and Jewish militants, February 1948. 5 Arabs and 3 Jews killed
Tirat Tzvi, 57 Arabs killed while taking part in an attack on Jewish settlements at Tirat Tzvi, Sde Eliahu and Ein HaNatziv
Haifa, February 1948, 4 Jewish bus passengers killed
Ben Yehuda Street bombing, February 1948, 55 Jews killed
Ramle, February 1948, 3 Jews ambushed and killed on road between Ramie and Tel Aviv
Kfar Sava, February 1948, 6 Arabs and 1 Jew killed during an attack by Arab militants on the Jewish village of Kfar Sava
Mitzpe, February 1948, 4 Arabs killed while participating in attack on Jewish settlement Mitzpe
Tel Aviv-Jerusalem, March 1948, 4 Jews killed on Tel Aviv-Jerusalem road
Tel Aviv-Jerusalem, March 1948, 10 Arabs, 3 Jews killed during Arab attack on Tel Aviv-Jerusalem road
Jerusalem-Atarot, March 1948, 16 Jews killed on Jerusalem-Atarot road
Yehiam, March 1948, 3 Arabs killed while attacking a Jewish settlement Yehiam
Tiberias, March 1948, clash between Arab and Jewish militants when 4 Arabs and 1 Jew killed
Jewish Agency bombing, March 1948, 13 Jews killed
Faluja, March 1948, 7 Jews killed
Tiberias, March 1948, clash between Arab and Jewish militants when 4 Arabs and 1 Jew killed
Acre convoy, March 1948, 5 Britons and 4 Jews killed in convoy near Acre
Ein Harod, March 1948, 7 Jews killed at Ein Harod
Rosh Pinna-Safed, March 1948, 6 Jews killed on Rosh Pinna-Safed road
Nitzanim, March 1948, 4 Jews and 20 Arabs during attack on Jewish settlement Nitzanim
Gaza, March 1948, 6 Arabs and 2 Jews killed in attack on Jewish convoy near Gaza
Rehovot, March 1948, 6 Arabs killed while participating in attack on Jewish convoy near Rehovot
Hadassah Medical Convoy Massacre, April 1948, 78 Jews (nurses, doctors, and patients) and one British soldier killed
Kfar Etzion Massacre, May 1948, 127-157 Jews killed

Of course, Israeli militants were active at the same time in tick-for-tack reprisals. While over 860 Jews died during this period, so did 1200 Palestinian Arabs including over 100 who died while attacking Jewish convoys and settlements.

The thing is.... there is no start point (or foreseeable end point) for a conflict over 2000 years in the making. I can't find the quote at the moment but 600 years after Mohammad, a Jewish historian wrote that the Jewish people had never been oppressed so much in their history (including being defeated by the Egyptians, Assyrians, Philistines, Babylonians, Greeks or Romans) than they were when under Muslim rule. Of course, he had no idea of the Nazis and the holocaust.

 

[miket12]

You also didn't address the ceasefire question. Are both parties not held to the ceasefire?

The ceasefire between Hamas and Israel wasn't broken in 2022 as Hamas wasn't responsible for firing over 1,100 rockets into Israel.... that was the Palestinian Islamic Jihad who the Israelis targeted during Operation Breaking Dawn with 147 airstrikes against PIJ targets. The Israeli Defense Force actually let Hamas know what their targets would be before the airstrikes. Hamas refused to be drawn into the conflict between the PIJ and IDF.

 

[Rizzah]

The ceasefire between Hamas and Israel wasn't broken in 2022 as Hamas wasn't responsible for firing over 1,100 rockets into Israel.... that was the Palestinian Islamic Jihad who the Israelis targeted during Operation Breaking Dawn with 147 airstrikes against PIJ targets. The Israeli Defense Force actually let Hamas know what their targets would be before the airstrikes. Hamas refused to be drawn into the conflict between the PIJ and IDF.

So how do you justify the IOF killing of civilians in Gaza over this period? Is this not in breach of the ceasefire?

 

[Worried2Death]

So how do you justify the IOF killing of civilians in Gaza over this period? Is this not in breach of the ceasefire?

It's unjustifiable morally unless you're a religious zealot. I believe Hamas broke the latest ceasefire by an hour, not that it would have made any difference to the schedule.