Social ⚔️ Palestine, Israel war.

[Boston Boy]

Genocide - the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.

I see the deliberate aim of destroying the country Palestine - not Palestinians. Genocide. War crimes.

Rightly or wrongly I think Israel see the destruction of Palestine as the only avenue available for real long term peace due to the inability of the two parties to live together (which Palestine is also guilty of).

There ls no winners. No good guys. Just an ugly war over land. If I was a Palestinian or Israelite, I would have left years ago…

To be fair, I believe it is possible that Netanyahu has had a more aggressive agenda that may be close to what you are suggesting. I still don’t believe in general Israel initially intended to degrade Palestine to its current condition. It has occurred in their rage to destroy Hamas.

I don’t believe their intention is destroy the Palestinian people when their is evidence the army has tried to preserve Palestinian life. Therefore I don’t believe it’s Genocide, the real evidence will be whether they allow Palestinians to rebuild Gaza etc. That will be the answer.

Regarding the definition of Genocide you provided. Their is a group of people who clearly have fulfilled the conditions multiple times:
View: https://x.com/__donhulio__/status/1788165357837877481?s=46[/URL]

 

[NZDoug]

'Keep Hamas alive and kicking'

This symbiotic relationship between Netanyahu and Hamas has been remarked on for years, by both friends and enemies, hawks and doves.

Yuval Diskin, former head of Israel's Shin Bet security service, told the daily newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth in 2013 that "if we look at it over the years, one of the main people contributing to Hamas's strengthening has been Bibi Netanyahu, since his first term as prime minister."

In August 2019, former prime minister Ehud Barak told Israeli Army Radio that Netanyahu's "strategy is to keep Hamas alive and kicking … even at the price of abandoning the citizens [of the south] … in order to weaken the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah."

The logic underlying this strategy, Barak said, is that "it's easier with Hamas to explain to Israelis that there is no one to sit with and no one to talk to."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035

 

[NZDoug]

HAMAS- An Israeli Production
But did you also know that Hamas — which is an Arabic acronym for “Islamic Resistance Movement” — would probably not exist today were it not for the Jewish state? That the Israelis helped turn a bunch of fringe Palestinian Islamists in the late 1970s into one of the world’s most notorious militant groups? That Hamas is blowback?

This isn’t a conspiracy theory. Listen to former Israeli officials such as Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as “a creature of Israel.”)

“The Israeli government gave me a budget,” the retired brigadier general confessed, “and the military government gives to the mosques.”

“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for more than two decades, told the Wall Street Journal in 2009. Back in the mid-1980s, Cohen even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them not to play divide-and-rule in the Occupied Territories, by backing Palestinian Islamists against Palestinian secularists. “I … suggest focusing our efforts on finding ways to break up this monster before this reality jumps in our face,” he wrote.

They didn’t listen to him. And Hamas, as I explain in the fifth installment of my short film series for The Intercept on blowback, was the result. To be clear: First, the Israelis helped build up a militant strain of Palestinian political Islam, in the form of Hamas and its Muslim Brotherhood precursors; then, the Israelis switched tack and tried to bomb, besiege, and blockade it out of existence.

In the past decade alone, Israel has gone to war with Hamas three times — in 2009, 2012, and 2014 — killing around 2,500 Palestinian civilians in Gaza in the process. Meanwhile, Hamas has killed far more Israeli civilians than any secular Palestinian militant group. This is the human cost of blowback.

“When I look back at the chain of events, I think we made a mistake,” David Hacham, a former Arab affairs expert in the Israeli military who was based in Gaza in the 1980s, later remarked. “But at the time, nobody thought about the possible results.”


https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/

 

[NZDoug]

Israel created HAMAS.
Regrets among those Israeli officials who helped the creation of Hamas are well documented. For instance, Avner Cohen, a Tunisia-born Jew who was an Israeli official in Gaza dealing with religious affairs during 1970s and 1980s, lamented that “Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation”. He observed the Islamist movement take shape, muscle aside secular Palestinian rivals and then evolved into what is today Hamas — a militant group that now calls for Israel’s destruction. Cohen argued that “instead of trying to curb Gaza’s Islamists from the outset, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat’s Fatah. Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas”. Does it mean that Hamas was clever enough to dodge shrewd Israeli intelligence service by portraying itself as a welfare and charity organisation in order to get itself establish in Gaza and then confront Israel?

Bit of bla bla here.

Furthermore, Brig General Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s, told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as ‘a creature of Israel’).” General Segev even admitted to funding Hamas himself with Israeli taxpayers’ money that was later used to kill the same people who were funding them.

One can draw two conclusions from the above discussion. One, it was purely in the Israeli interest to support and patronise first Mujama al-Islamiya and then Hamas. It also means that like the US which created and nourished various Jihadi groups in Afghanistan and elsewhere, Israel cannot escape from the responsibility of creating Hamas. Two, Hamas’ rise and surge in 1990s and thereafter the weakening of PLO and the Palestinian community strengthened Israeli occupation over West Bank and the blockade of Gaza. Hence the perpetual ordeals of Palestinians.


https://tribune.com.pk/story/2302309/how-and-why-israel-helped-create-hamas

 

[Commonsense]

I reject the word Genocide as propaganda. Words matter. If Israel wanted Genocide they could have it any day of the week. In Israel you have judges, politicians, officials in high ranking positions who are Palestinians, Arabs, Muslims etc, this is not genocide, if it was those people would be removed or killed like in real genocides such as Germany or Rwanda.

Using the word genocide is propaganda, and manipulation of the facts.

Does Netanyahu want Gaza removed? Yes…. Has he always wanted it? Probably. is this his excuse to get it? Most likely.
Are all Israelis on board with Netanyahu? No.
Did some enter the war not expecting this level of destruction? Absolutely.
Many Israelis just wanted the hostages back and for the destruction of Hamass main military bases etc.

Says the guy regurgitating Israeli propaganda

 

[Worried2Death]

There ls no winners. No good guys. Just an ugly war over land. If I was a Palestinian or Israelite, I would have left years ago…

Tend to agree but don't think it's that easy for Palistinian refugees to get citizenship anywhere else, even the neighbours are reluctant to welcome them. Rishi Sunak wants to send them back or fly them to fukn Rwanda.

Another complexity is the Judeo-Christian belief in the promised land, there's no rational solution for religious certainty.

Also, historically the progroms always come back in time so where is it safe for Jews to go? If the US were to set aside land in Ohio or somewhere, the true believers will never pack up and leave, they'll fight to the death like jihadis, and secular Jews are never safe from anti-semitism anywhere, it's existential survival.

As you say, I hope it doesn't come down to one side genociding the other from the river to the sea to achieve "peace". Oy gevalt.

 

[miket12]

Another complexity is the Judeo-Christian belief in the promised land, there's no rational solution for religious certainty.

That's not even taking into account that both Shia and Sunni Muslims consider Jerusalem their third holiest city after Mecca and Medina.

 

[Worried2Death]

That's not even taking into account that both Shia and Sunni Muslims consider Jerusalem their third holiest city after Mecca and Medina.

I'd blame God for this nightmare if he was real

 

[Noitall]

'No Israelis allowed': The top global tourist haven set to ban travellers from Israel

The island nation is renowned for its luxurious resorts and endless white sand beaches.

www.newshub.co.nz

Wow

 

[marv.]

this is on the nose man.

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/C8DD1zXt4py/?igsh=MXE1cGxvdnBsMWlrMw==


tons of emotive rubbish in the comments there, but whichever way you look at it it’s a shitty move.

super ugly.

 

[Noitall]

this is on the nose man.

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/C8DD1zXt4py/?igsh=MXE1cGxvdnBsMWlrMw==


tons of emotive rubbish in the blurb there, but whichever way you look at it it’s a shitty move.

super ugly.

Will be interesting to see what the visiting Chinese delegate has to say around this in the next couple of weeks

 

[Boston Boy]

Great news. 4 hostages were saved, lots of terrorists killed. Must be getting closer to it being over. No celebrations here, must have missed it .

 

[Brightman]

Great news. 4 hostages were saved, lots of terrorists killed. Must be getting closer to it being over. No celebrations here, must have missed it .

In other words:

With the help of the US and using the US built "humanitarian port", IDF staged a massacre 260+ Palestinian civilians including over 80 children all in an effort to save 4 hostages as one US civilian hostage was killed during the operation.

Swell..

 

[Boston Boy]

In other words:

With the help of the US and using the US built "humanitarian port", IDF staged a massacre 260+ Palestinian civilians including over 80 children all in an effort to save 4 hostages as one US civilian hostage was killed during the operation.

Swell..

You realise the stats are recorded and reported by Hamas.

In fact one of the reporters who worked for Al Jazeera was holding the terrorists in his home. I wouldn’t believe those stats but even if I did I would blame the terror group Hamas’s and not the IDF. Seems like we like to wear Hamas glasses here.

 

[NZDoug]

he crucial decision to not renew the contract enables Saudi Arabia to sell oil and other goods in multiple currencies, including the Chinese RMB, Euros, Yen, and Yuan, instead of exclusively in US dollars. Additionally, the potential use of digital currencies like Bitcoin may also be considered.

This latest development signifies a major shift away from the petrodollar system established in 1972, when the US decoupled its currency from gold, and is anticipated to hasten the global shift away from the US dollar.

Cross-border CBDC transactions​

In a more recent move, Saudi Arabia has announced its involvement in Project mBridge, a project which explores a multi-central bank digital currency (CBDC) platform shared among participating central banks and commercial banks. It is built on distributed ledger technology (DLT) to enable instant cross-border payments settlements, and foreign-exchange transactions.
Saudis think Izzy going to far.
Give America a wake up……

 

[Brightman]

You realise the stats are recorded and reported by Hamas.

In fact one of the reporters who worked for Al Jazeera was holding the terrorists in his home. I wouldn’t believe those stats but even if I did I would blame the terror group Hamas’s and not the IDF. Seems like we like to wear Hamas glasses here.

Obviously BOTH sides will have their biases, did the IDF kill no civilians during this operation except the one American hostage..

 

[Rizzah]

Obviously BOTH sides will have their biases, did the IDF kill no civilians during this operation except the one American hostage..

They also hid soldiers in Humanitarian trucks, a war crime. The IDF are fucking ghouls propped up by the US.

 

[Boston Boy]

Obviously BOTH sides will have their biases, did the IDF kill no civilians during this operation except the one American hostage..

Agreed, lies, exaggeration and truth on both sides I’m sure.

Every single war kills civilians. And many at much higher rates. I am amazed that this outrage only seems to rage at this level against the Jews. Note I am not saying it’s wrong to be upset but it doesn’t seem very consistent to me. It’s like when a team gets thrashed in league but we get special delight when it’s the team we hate. There seems to be special hatred here for the Jews. We have Muslims, enslaved, organ harvested and tortured in the hundreds of thousands and murders of innocent people in higher numbers and in horrific conditions yet only what comes on the news against the Jews outrages us even though many of the numbers are much higher elsewhere. I can’t imagine what the reaction would be if the Jews had committed the Many much worse atrocities that are currently occurring in our world.
I don't want any civilians dying, but it’s very hard in such an operation when kids and even women will try and kill you and believe they will be rewarded in heaven for such. Anyone approaching, is in the vicinity or even looking at you is a threat to your life. so it’s understandable why you’d be close to the trigger. Hamas has placed hostages in a local home, the question I would be asking would be, Why? They were endangering all these civilians and terrorists that were intermingled. So friends we see things differently but atleast with the hostage capture, the war is nearly over….

 

[Rizzah]

Agreed, lies, exaggeration and truth on both sides I’m sure.

Every single war kills civilians. And many at much higher rates. I am amazed that this outrage only seems to rage at this level against the Jews. Note I am not saying it’s wrong to be upset but it doesn’t seem very consistent to me. It’s like when a team gets thrashed in league but we get special delight when it’s the team we hate. There seems to be special hatred here for the Jews. We have Muslims, enslaved, organ harvested and tortured in the hundreds of thousands and murders of innocent people in higher numbers and in horrific conditions yet only what comes on the news against the Jews outrages us even though many of the numbers are much higher. I can’t imagine what the reaction would be if the Jews had committed this unprovoked evil.
I don't want any civilians dying, but it’s very hard in such an operation when kids and even women will try and kill you and believe they will be rewarded in heaven for such. Anyone close to you is a threat to your life. so it’s understandable why you’d be trigger happy. Hamas has placed hostages in a local home, the question I would be asking would be, Why? They were endangering all these civilians and terrorists that were intermingled. So friends we see things differently but atleast with the hostage capture, the war is nearly over….

The tactics used by the IDF in built up civilian areas is indefensible. If you know hostages are there, in an area you've sent millions of people. Send in soldiers, without the dropping of large ordinance before hand. No issue with some sort of close air support that is precise. But if you walk away from a hostage rescue killing 200+ civilians you have failed terribly.

Unprovoked evil? You're deranged. What do you call occupation for 70+ years, with decades of tactics like 'mowing the lawn' by the IDF?

 

[Rizzah]

Agreed, lies, exaggeration and truth on both sides I’m sure.

Every single war kills civilians. And many at much higher rates. I am amazed that this outrage only seems to rage at this level against the Jews. Note I am not saying it’s wrong to be upset but it doesn’t seem very consistent to me. It’s like when a team gets thrashed in league but we get special delight when it’s the team we hate. There seems to be special hatred here for the Jews. We have Muslims, enslaved, organ harvested and tortured in the hundreds of thousands and murders of innocent people in higher numbers and in horrific conditions yet only what comes on the news against the Jews outrages us even though many of the numbers are much higher elsewhere. I can’t imagine what the reaction would be if the Jews had committed the Many much worse atrocities that are currently occurring in our world.
I don't want any civilians dying, but it’s very hard in such an operation when kids and even women will try and kill you and believe they will be rewarded in heaven for such. Anyone approaching, is in the vicinity or even looking at you is a threat to your life. so it’s understandable why you’d be close to the trigger. Hamas has placed hostages in a local home, the question I would be asking would be, Why? They were endangering all these civilians and terrorists that were intermingled. So friends we see things differently but atleast with the hostage capture, the war is nearly over….

Mate, take a long hard look at yourself after this post.