Social Palestine, Israel war.

NZDoug said:
I didn’t think it was Palestinians with Apache Attack helicopters.
Fog of war and all that.
Who to believe?
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Anything from George Galloway needs to be fact checked, not so easy in the fog of war as you say but this is clearly bullshit propaganda .
 
History Repeats Itself.
In June 2006, I received a book called “ The Great War for Civilisation, the Conquest of the Middle East”, by Robert Fisk.

I started reading the book in 2006 about the Palestinian/Israeli war in 1982, and Israel was bombing the hospitals.

As I was reading the book, in real life, there was another uprising in 2006, and the Israelis we’re bombing the hospital.

For the past 17 years, I have followed the situation daily and became aware that there was Israeli military, land occupation, wanton “settler” attacks on Palestinian people and their produce and farms.

An occupying army by law is supposed to protect the occupied people and the reverse is happening.

The IDF constantly assists the aggressors.



The BBC's Jeremy Bowen also praised him following his death, and noted the controversy Fisk drew for his "sharp criticism of the US and Israel, and of Western foreign policy". Bowen described himself as an admirer who would miss Fisk's "guts and his appetite for the fight".[57] Fisk dismissed the controversy related to his reporting in Syria, saying that he was "writing only what he saw and heard".[61] His ex-wife, Lara Marlowe, took exception to the use of the adjective "controversial" in his obituaries, saying "he was a prolific non-conformist in the world of journalism, whose judgments avoided jumping on the bandwagon" and, in her experience, had been "intuitive, rapid and invariably right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Fisk

I have also read Andrew Bacevich’s book,
America's War for the Greater Middle East: A Military History
which confirms much of what was disussed in Fisks writings.

Andrew J. Bacevich Jr. (/ˈbeɪsəvɪtʃ/, BAY-sə-vitch; born July 5, 1947) is an American historian specializing in international relations, security studies, American foreign policy, and American diplomatic and military history. He is a Professor Emeritus of International Relations and History at the Boston University Frederick S. Pardee School of Global Studies.[3] He is also a retired career officer in the Armor Branch of the United States Army, retiring with the rank of colonel. He is a former director of Boston University's Center for International Relations (from 1998 to 2005), now part of the Pardee School of Global Studies.[3] Bacevich is the co-founder and president of the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft.
 
With this conflict I would want to support the side that prioritizes avoiding casualties in civilians, especially children. Neither are doing that so both are equally at fault.

On the same point, can anybody name an actual leader in the west, take WW2, can you compare Sunak to Churchill or Biden to FDR, all are driven by ideology and/or donors.
 
It doesn’t add up.



Senior US lawmaker says Egypt warned Israel 3 days before onslaught



By AFP

11 October 2023, 6:19 pm 8

Israel got a warning from Egypt of potential violence three days before Hamas fighters carried out a large-scale attack and massacred over 1,000 people in Israel, the chairman of the powerful US House Foreign Affairs Committee said Wednesday.

“We know that Egypt has warned the Israelis three days prior that an event like this could happen,” Republican Michael McCaul tells reporters following a closed-door intelligence briefing for lawmakers on the crisis.

“I don’t want to get too much into classified, but a warning was given,” he says. “I think the question was at what level.”

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has repeatedly denied that he was warned by Egypt’s head of intelligence about Hamas’s plans before the onslaught.


http:///www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/senior-us-lawmaker-says-egypt-warned-israel-3-days-before-onslaught/
 
Another big day for civilian casualties.
A UN school Al-Fakhoura in the city of Jabalia (Northern Gaza) was hit over night by Israeli airstrikes. The school was being used as a shelter for many of the displaced.
Whole rooms of people dead.





 
Most international conflict we tend to pick a natural side which taints our view.

This one I don’t personally have a link to either side and it really highlights how backwards and barbaric war is.

I honestly don’t think either side can live together in the same area. There seems no feasible outcome where they share the land.

Lots of posts about how bad either side is acting but to me, more important is what’s the long term solution? Unless that’s sorted this will keep going on repeat on forever…

Has Israel decided that short term international condemnation is acceptable to solve the problem for the long term? Genocide? Forced depopulation?
 
wizard of Tauranga said:
Most international conflict we tend to pick a natural side which taints our view.

This one I don’t personally have a link to either side and it really highlights how backwards and barbaric war is.

I honestly don’t think either side can live together in the same area. There seems no feasible outcome where they share the land.

Lots of posts about how bad either side is acting but to me, more important is what’s the long term solution? Unless that’s sorted this will keep going on repeat on forever…

Has Israel decided that short term international condemnation is acceptable to solve the problem for the long term? Genocide? Forced depopulation?
Click to expand...
Muslims and Jews historically DID live in the region peacefully.

The problem is the immigrant Jewish population who had been displaced and refused to live under Arab rule. So they went about exterminating the local Arab population and driving the rest out.
 
wizard of Tauranga said:
Most international conflict we tend to pick a natural side which taints our view.

This one I don’t personally have a link to either side and it really highlights how backwards and barbaric war is.

I honestly don’t think either side can live together in the same area. There seems no feasible outcome where they share the land.

Lots of posts about how bad either side is acting but to me, more important is what’s the long term solution? Unless that’s sorted this will keep going on repeat on forever…

Has Israel decided that short term international condemnation is acceptable to solve the problem for the long term? Genocide? Forced depopulation?
Click to expand...
My heart goes out to the children, All the rest can get stuffed!
 
A 2 state solution will never work... The rest of the world just don't get it and sometimes poke their noses in where it don't belong.... the Jews have been offering that solution for decades the Palestinians have always said no... do your research. Ever wondered why the Palestinians got booted out of Kuwait Jordan Lebanon and why Arab nations don't want them?
Arafat PlO Hamas all of them never wanted peace in any country.... yesterday, now or tomorrow... Seeing innocent civilians caught up in the middle is awful. I think the obvious answer dare I say it is a 1 state solution something I guess no one really wants to hear...
 
regenerated borg said:
Arafat PlO Hamas all of them never wanted peace in any country.... yesterday, now or tomorrow... Seeing innocent civilians caught up in the middle is awful. I think the obvious answer dare I say it is a 1 state solution something I guess no one really wants to hear...
Click to expand...
I’ve heard people say that arafat and hamas were recognised by israel in order to justify aggression towards palestine, I’ve also heard of arabs happier in israel than in palestine because of hamas. I don’t know enough about it on that side of things to really make comment but the images in this are beyond comprehension. I don’t believe all palestinians are supporters of hamas and that’s how they’re being being treated, has the world expected them to rise up over hamas? If so, those being slaughtered were in a lose lose situation, they were either going to be slaughtered by hamas or be slaughtered by israel as they are. The closest I’ve seen of these images is that committed by the nazis and I find it ironic that those committing them are the victims in that disgraceful chapter. I keep seeing that any solidarity with palestine means support for hamas and I don’t believe that to be the case, many are just as disgusted by the attack on israel and the hostages taken but where israel is taking this isn’t right.
 
What I find interesting is the calls for a ceasefire.

I always thought a ceasefire was a temporary stopping of hostilities agreed to by both parties in a conflict.

In that case, if either Israel or Hamas don't want to stop firing on the other, can there be a ceasefire because one party hasn't agreed to it? Or is this case different since one side in the armed forces of a government while the other is the fighters for an organisation and it's only up to Israel to stop fighting?

If Israel was to stop it's advance and withdraw its troops from Palestine, does that count as a ceasefire?

I just wonder what people marching calling for a ceasefire actually mean when they are marching for one.
 
An interesting take by a political journalist on NewstalkZB today

A left leaner supports Palestine
A right leaner supports Israel

How does that suggestion align with your leanings?
 
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