NRL NRL Expansion

[Est95]

Yeah you need to create a hard core fan base - think of the 5k that turn up to Mt Smart in a cyclone when the team is going shit. Hard to generate that if you dilute the 'home' base and spread it too wide

 

[Matiunz]

Because I selfishly don't want to share home games with a third city. As a rate payer, I want as many fixtures to be held at the new stadium as possible, Dunedin can have a couple but I don't want them to be shared around too much.

And that’s pretty much the reason I wouldn’t support a South Island team over the Warriors

 

[ndp26]

Because I selfishly don't want to share home games with a third city. As a rate payer, I want as many fixtures to be held at the new stadium as possible, Dunedin can have a couple but I don't want them to be shared around too much.

Fair enough - but another consideration is that if the new team brings in fans from the lower North Island as well, some may travel at least once year and this would be a boost for the Christchurch / SI economy through tourism revenue. Better for rate payers in the longer term for the new club to quickly get to having full stadiums than a smaller pool of loyal fans that makes hosting games at Te Kaha challenging from a financial perspective.

 

[ndp26]

And that’s pretty much the reason I wouldn’t support a South Island team over the Warriors

Would you mind elaborating on this a little? I don't want to assume what you mean by this, as I don't know where you are based.

 

[mrblonde]

I would think they'd do well to avoid geographically naming the team so as to not ostracise any fans - they've got a better chance to do it than the Dolphins did (their attempt was a bit of a farce given the QCup side...) - e.g., would a Wellington league fan support a "South Island" team? As a case study, it will be interesting to see if Auckland-based Wellington Phoenix fans remain loyal to the Phoenix or shift their allegiance to the new Auckland side.

I'd be thinking a "Southern" team, even if they're Christchurch-based and play majority of home games in the South Island. The other benefit of "Southern" (or similar) means that it doesn't directly conflict with "New Zealand Warriors" - as my vote would be that the Warriors do not change that element of their name.

Except that it would became painfully obvious that the Warriors do not represent New Zealand because there's another New Zealand team.
There's no way any marketing guru or even semi-guru would let "New Zealand Warriors" remain if we ever got a second team. Unless they wanted to annoy the hell out of the other team and their fans and anyone else who wants Auckland/whatever as part of the new name.

 

[Worried2Death]

Except that it would became painfully obvious that the Warriors do not represent New Zealand because there's another New Zealand team.
There's no way any marketing guru or even semi-guru would let "New Zealand Warriors" remain if we ever got a second team. Unless they wanted to annoy the hell out of the other team and their fans and anyone else who wants Auckland/whatever as part of the new name.

I can sort of see it working, NZ Wahs and Southern Keas can have fans from anywhere if they're not regionally exclusive. NZ is southern, incl. Auckland.

Probably get a lot supporting both depending on how they're going, particularly if one's playing finals.

Imagine Warriors v Keas GF, nrl's worst nightmare.

 

[ndp26]

Except that it would became painfully obvious that the Warriors do not represent New Zealand because there's another New Zealand team.
There's no way any marketing guru or even semi-guru would let "New Zealand Warriors" remain if we ever got a second team. Unless they wanted to annoy the hell out of the other team and their fans and anyone else who wants Auckland/whatever as part of the new name.

But I think that is right - the Warriors don't officially represent NZ, they are a franchise that is NZ-based. Of course, the Warriors do represent a lot of us as New Zealand born/based rugby league fans as the only club currently based in New Zealand. As Worried2Death said, the fans can come from anywhere.

I agree it could be perceived as messy, but I think it would be less messy (and less divisive for fans) to avoid changing the name/geographical reference again.

 

[mrblonde]

But I think that is right - the Warriors don't officially represent NZ, they are a franchise that is NZ-based. Of course, the Warriors do represent a lot of us as New Zealand born/based rugby league fans as the only club currently based in New Zealand. As Worried2Death said, the fans can come from anywhere.

I agree it could be perceived as messy, but I think it would be less messy (and less divisive for fans) to avoid changing the name/geographical reference again.

But what happens if - as I suspect it would, lots of non-Auckland Warriors fans out there - the Keas end up with more fans than the Warriors?
And I don't the NRL would stand for it - and they would have final say on the subject. Unless we just become Warriors and Keas...
Anyway, no way it's going to happen so it's pie in the sky stuff, unfortunately. You watch. Mr Vlandys and Mr Abdo say nice words, but money talks.
If I'm running the NRL, we expland/relocate (still think that's the future, at least the next 5-10 years) one team at a time, sit back and so how it goes, make plans for the next team and the relevant timeline from there. But I expect the NRL are seduced by potential dollars and eyeballs so maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's the PNG/South Island/Darwin teams all in one hit and the NRL turns to shit as most games become too predictable as the new teams struggle for 2-3 seasons as well as the ones who are struggling now and fans desert the game...

If this gets through, it won't help the South Island's cause none.

 

[Makasene]

But what happens if - as I suspect it would, lots of non-Auckland Warriors fans out there - the Keas end up with more fans than the Warriors?
And I don't the NRL would stand for it - and they would have final say on the subject. Unless we just become Warriors and Keas...
Anyway, no way it's going to happen so it's pie in the sky stuff, unfortunately. You watch. Mr Vlandys and Mr Abdo say nice words, but money talks.
If I'm running the NRL, we expland/relocate (still think that's the future, at least the next 5-10 years) one team at a time, sit back and so how it goes, make plans for the next team and the relevant timeline from there. But I expect the NRL are seduced by potential dollars and eyeballs so maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's the PNG/South Island/Darwin teams all in one hit and the NRL turns to shit as most games become too predictable as the new teams struggle for 2-3 seasons as well as the ones who are struggling now and fans desert the game...

If this gets through, it won't help the South Island's cause none.

A second NRL team in Christchurch would suit the NRL for a number of reasons:

1. Increased broadcasting rights from SKY
2. Brand spanking new indoor stadium - producing a consistent product that mid-winter outdoor Chch could never do.
3. The dreaded 6pm (NSW) 8pm NZ Friday slot would be used by Warriors or Southern at home just about every week alternating
4. The instant rivalry / derby for NZ is an immediate money maker for sponsorship etc.

Above all, it just feels like the right time - a combination of interest in the game and delivery of new infrastructure needs to be capitalised on.

I really think one of these southern bids has a huge shot and absolutely has to be a better option than PNG. I think you can only have one team at a time though, look how hard it was for Dolphins to sign players for that first season.

 

[ndp26]

But what happens if - as I suspect it would, lots of non-Auckland Warriors fans out there - the Keas end up with more fans than the Warriors?
And I don't the NRL would stand for it - and they would have final say on the subject. Unless we just become Warriors and Keas...
Anyway, no way it's going to happen so it's pie in the sky stuff, unfortunately. You watch. Mr Vlandys and Mr Abdo say nice words, but money talks.
If I'm running the NRL, we expland/relocate (still think that's the future, at least the next 5-10 years) one team at a time, sit back and so how it goes, make plans for the next team and the relevant timeline from there. But I expect the NRL are seduced by potential dollars and eyeballs so maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's the PNG/South Island/Darwin teams all in one hit and the NRL turns to shit as most games become too predictable as the new teams struggle for 2-3 seasons as well as the ones who are struggling now and fans desert the game...

If this gets through, it won't help the South Island's cause none.

Makasene has covered off the key benefits of a South Island based team, so I won't rehash that. There are good financial and non-financial reasons for having a second NRL team based in NZ. However, I don't see what the numbers of fans has to do with the name of a franchise - these aren't national / regional teams, it is just the name of a franchise that is often developed based on where they are based. Players and fans are free to move between franchise teams - unlike national teams (and, formerly, regional teams - a la NPC / ITM Cup in rugby), where there are rules around eligibility. As I previously said, I appreciate that it isn't ideal that one of team names includes a geographical reference to the whole country - but my personal preference would be that they didn't change the Warriors again, and don't think this is a dealbreaker in terms of a second NZ-based team.

The ARL Commission has said that the next expansion is expected to be the addition of an 18th team (to remove the odd number of teams and at least one bye each week), and then there are reports that they are targeting a 20 team competition that may allow for divisions (with promotion / relegation) or conferences. It is almost certain that the 18th team will be based in / near PNG given the political climate surrounding Chinese investment in the Pacific and the Australian government's contribution to PNG likely to effectively underwrite the team.

 

[mrblonde]

A second NRL team in Christchurch would suit the NRL for a number of reasons:

1. Increased broadcasting rights from SKY
2. Brand spanking new indoor stadium - producing a consistent product that mid-winter outdoor Chch could never do.
3. The dreaded 6pm (NSW) 8pm NZ Friday slot would be used by Warriors or Southern at home just about every week alternating
4. The instant rivalry / derby for NZ is an immediate money maker for sponsorship etc.

Above all, it just feels like the right time - a combination of interest in the game and delivery of new infrastructure needs to be capitalised on.

I really think one of these southern bids has a huge shot and absolutely has to be a better option than PNG. I think you can only have one team at a time though, look how hard it was for Dolphins to sign players for that first season.

Good point about the 6PM NSW slot - don't think any NSW team is a huge fan of that. But from a NZ POV it would get kind of boring...
I'd mention that a Warriors v Kea and Blues v Crusaders weekend would be a real money spinner but Mr Penney ain't doing so hot at keeping the Crusaders form going right now, is he? Even so, it might make the cash registers KACHING for a couple of nights.
Look, I hope it happens and I hope it works ie the Kea give the Warriors a tough damn game every few games at least. Just not exactly 100% that's the way the NRL are going to go.

 

[Makasene]

Good point about the 6PM NSW slot - don't think any NSW team is a huge fan of that. But from a NZ POV it would get kind of boring...
I'd mention that a Warriors v Kea and Blues v Crusaders weekend would be a real money spinner but Mr Penney ain't doing so hot at keeping the Crusaders form going right now, is he? Even so, it might make the cash registers KACHING for a couple of nights.
Look, I hope it happens and I hope it works ie the Kea give the Warriors a tough damn game every few games at least. Just not exactly 100% that's the way the NRL are going to go.

What covid robbed us of was the Blues v Brumbies / Warriors v Raiders doubleheader at Eden Park (Remember that! Never to be heard of again)

So you aren't too far off with a double header.

Who knows, maybe the Southern team will come following the inevitable collapse of a PNG team

 

[snake77]

If that doubleheader did occur it would have been interesting to see how well it was received and if it became an annual thing. Not sure if they would have alternated the game order or not. The Warriors are doing well now with the crowds they are pulling so likely haven't thought about it. When I turn over to see Super Rugby that competition looks pretty dire now.



When Perth is mentioned as a possible expansion club the timeslot is often brought up. I dread the thought of late games coming from there. Reminds me of when the Friday Night games used to be on at the same time but on different channels. Needed to stay up pretty late to watch both of them. The few games from Perth every now and then on late are manageable. If Perth came in it would Likely be the same time slots but earlier in the day for the locals.

The second NZ side would have more upside as far as time slots go being able to fill the 6pm/8pm NZ Friday spot.

Moving to 18 would likely see another regular game slotted in somewhere. Likely the return of Monday Night Football. It seemed like a drag before. Thursday has worked better, seems like after missing game people have been waiting for the football. Might also be the competition overall is doing better since they last did Monday Night Football.

It would be good to have some flexibility in the times but the NRL wouldn't like games overlapping. I was thinking it would be good having the occasional day game in NZ where it finished in daylight instead of twilight early in the season or night in winter. The chances of a 2:30pm NZ time is slim. But we can live in hope.

 

[Matiunz]

Would you mind elaborating on this a little? I don't want to assume what you mean by this, as I don't know where you are based.

For me I have to have a personal connection to follow a sports team. When the Warriors came in it was an NZ team to support so I was all in, pre Warriors id tried previously with Manly as my team but didn’t hugely care as I didn’t have any connection.
I’m based in Sydney now but grew up in the lower North Island between HB,Taranaki,Palmy and Wellington that along with family in BOP so have a strong connection to the North Island and virtually none to the South.
For NZ2 to sway me from the Warriors it’d have to have some connection, personally I think it’d be smarter to market as ‘Southern’ based in CHCH as to not limit its supporter base and have a sort of grey ‘border’ and let the brand sell itself to fans rather than a defined border. However the theme of a lot of the comments seem to be “We don’t want Wellington involved” and by extension any of the North island, to me this screams “we don’t want you as a fan if your not from the South Island”- you don’t want me as a fan? then I wont be.
Possibly unrelated but I’ve also met enough Crusaders fans to know how insufferable they can be so I may be associating that with Canterbury as a whole which is off putting to this bid.

 

[Akkerz]

Bring it on with the "Southern Keas" and change the NZ Warriors to "Northern Warriors" - otherwise known as "The Norsemen"

 

[jonesy101]

One thing they haven't considered with a Christchurch based team is what would happen when the Dolphins came to town. Would the game get called off?

 

[sup42]

Kea is a daft name, the Parrot is not much of a awe inspiring masscot.
Might else well call them the blue cod.

Barracouta (I want free Jerseys for life if they steal that off me) Mean fish, shiny silver and black.....screams for a Silver and black Jersey, which will appeal to all New Zealanders including the Cantabs. Silver and Black is neutrally adored the Kiwi Psyche.

The New Zealand Warriors can remain name unchanged.

The Solution is obvious. "The New Zealand Barracouta".

This an Australian competition, the fans are not so stupid that they cannot appreciate the Name NZ being tagged onto both New Zealand teams, because the commentators will bloody well call both NZ anyway in the live call.

As for all the gnashing of teeth over the borders, forget them, let the supporter base come organically from where ever without overlaying the South Island element, in the same fashion the Warriors have already proved is the way to go with an Auckland side.

Otherwise, if you try to narrow the appeal, you are just going backwards, to where the Auckland Warriors started.

Since it is most likely they will be based out of CH CH, they do not need to sell it to anyone in the Canterbury, Cantabs will be on board anyway, make the same argument the Warriors make, 'we represent all New Zealand fans who support us'.

 

[WahsaurusRex]

"Fixed"



- Changed name
- Swapped South Island for Mount Cook and the Southern Cross (probably should be made bigger)
- Less of a light green "banner" at the bottom, and more of a shield now; Ill put my marketing hat on and claim it is meant to be "pointing south"

The logo is pretty so-so IMO, with Manly changing to just a head rather than the Eagle in flight, the Kea logo should take that idea

Don't mind the Kea name as much, but what colour are the feathers on a Kea? Green, Red, Blue... they can't even make the most out of the mascot choice when the colours are the Warriors ones already lol

 

[Falcon]

"Fixed"

View attachment 6373

- Changed name
- Swapped South Island for Mount Cook and the Southern Cross (probably should be made bigger)
- Less of a light green banner, and more of a shield now; Ill put my marketing hat on and claim it is meant to be "pointing south"

The logo is pretty so-so IMO, with Manly changing to just a head rather than the Eagle in flight, the Kea logo should take that idea

Nice Effort!
Colours from the original should def move to Red, Green and Black.
Better marketing opportunities around jerseys and supporters gear.

 

[marv.]

The Solution is obvious. "The New Zealand Barracouta".

UP THE COOTER!!!