Loved Norths except for Taylor
NRL NRL Expansion
- Thread starter rugged
- Start Date
NZWarriors.com
I’m a huge Norths fan as my uncle was a trainer for them in the early 90s and also played for them through the 70s.
I was devastated when they folded considering they were finally tasting relative success in the 90s. They had some great footballers and great characters in those teams of the 90s, but just couldn’t get across the line for the big dance at any stage.
I’d love to see them back in any capacity but will wait until it’s confirmed (as it seems to change each week as to whether it’s a done deal or not).
There isn’t a Bears player I didn’t like (maybe only Danny Williams…). I wonder if Jason Taylor could be in line as a possible coach or assistant? Recently did well with the bears cup side and is now an assistant again at Canterbury. As a player I think he was underrated (again with me Bear tinted glasses on), but we could do with a half like him!
Anyway, bring back the bears I say (but hands off Leka!)
Thats it fellas
Newscorp reports today NRL stating n new teams after PNG -Perth till after thr Brisbane olympics in 2032.
Newscorp reports today NRL stating n new teams after PNG -Perth till after thr Brisbane olympics in 2032.
NZWarriors.com
So, if I have that right.
2027 - Perth
2028 - PNG
2029 - 2031 we will have 19 teams and will have to get used to the odd number of teams and byes. Noting this more for the effect it has on the points table needing to check who is inflated a bit due to byes.
It does give a few years to assess the impact it has on the overall depth.
Also lets hope the NZ bids get their house in order so when the time comes they are ready.
2027 - Perth
2028 - PNG
2029 - 2031 we will have 19 teams and will have to get used to the odd number of teams and byes. Noting this more for the effect it has on the points table needing to check who is inflated a bit due to byes.
It does give a few years to assess the impact it has on the overall depth.
Also lets hope the NZ bids get their house in order so when the time comes they are ready.
SEQ has 4m people with 6m predicted by 2045
That’s it pretty much
NZWarriors.com
new teams in back to back years is crazy TBH - they need to introduce some salary cap machinations to stop all the current teams locking down every half decent player. The dolphins did pretty well in hindsight to raid the other QLD teams and take Melbournes old forwards.
the Kosi's of the world could have a 10 year career if they are willing be a nomad.
Warriors' sell-out Christchurch support makes compelling case for South Island NRL
ANALYSIS: Commercial backers and political power brokers must surely see the potential for a South Island NRL rugby league team after another full-house for the Warriors in Christchurch.
A capacity crowd of 17,095 turned out for the Warriors’ 26-16 Anzac Day win over the Newcastle Knights, staying long after the final whistle to sing and chant.
The support reinforced Christchurch’s status as, arguably, the best ‘home away from home’ destination for any NRL club. Interest in rugby league in the South Island has reportedly doubled since 2022, and a study shows that a NRL franchise in Christchurch would return a $3 million profit from its first year.
Even Knights coach Adam O’Brien said on Friday it seemed obvious that Christchurch could support a NRL team.
The NRL has plans to expand the current 17-team competition to 20 clubs.
The Perth Bears have got the nod to enter in 2027, according to reports. A Papua New Guinea side is set to join in 2028.
The case for Christchurch to have the 20th team sometime in the future is compelling.
Three separate bids for a licence for a South Island club were rejected by the NRL last year.
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The hopeful bidders were the Southern Orcas (backed by Sir Graham Lowe and Andrew Chalmers), the South Island Kea led by former NRL and NZ Rugby chief executive David Moffett, and a SI NRL group, now spearheaded by former Warriors and Kiwis coach Frank Endacott after three foundation directors withdrew.
All three bid groups emphasised the jewel in Christchurch’s crown - the 30,00-seat roofed One New Zealand Stadium at Te Kaha - where the Warriors will bring a game for the next three years from 2026.
The groups, variously, had support in principle from the Canterbury Rugby League, the Christchurch City Council and Ngāi Tahu, the Canterbury Rugby League and other territorial rugby leagues, who could see the benefit of a second New Zealand NRL team to complement the Warriors.
The Orcas claim to have $60m in capital funding from South Island investors as part of a bid worth $360m, including a central hotel development, but they have not yet publicly named their backer. The Kea also reported considerable commercial support.
Information released to The Press by one of the bids (which requested anonymity), suggest the numbers would stack up for a South Island NRL team investor.
The bid team commissioned the Gemba Group, an Australian-based sports and entertainment strategic analysis firm, to prepare reports to support its 2024 application to the NRL.
The reports projected a $3m profit in the team’s first year in the league from a revenue base of $36.2m, with the surplus projected to reach $4.2m by the 10th year - provided NRL grant extension and maximum sponsorship targets are attained. (The NRL delivers a $21m grant annually to each club).
The Gemba reports showed a South Island NRL team would generate up to $29m a year to the NRL in additional broadcast revenue, deliver a viewership base of 259,000 and a potential market of 282,000 people in the South Island, including 36,000 “converted rugby union fans’’.
It could expect a membership base of 10,600 and an average game attendance of 8600 - both figures would be the lowest of existing NRL clubs
But the Gemba study emphasised the South Island team would be financially viable, despite not having the same gaming funding and food and beverage revenue sources as some Australian clubs.
It made comparisons with a South Island team’s estimated risk profile to that of teams based in Brisbane, Wellington, Perth and PNG. It found the South Island had the second lowest risk to Brisbane, a city where 42% of sports fans are passionate about rugby league.
The Gemba study - and the sell-out crowds for recent Warriors and Kiwis matches in Christchurch - affirm the growing support for rugby league in the South Island.
Rugby League is the second most popular sport in New Zealand, according to Gemba, with 32% of the population "fanatics of the sport'' and 50% of the population are "not at all passionate about rugby league". Rugby union is most popular sport (43%).
League is the third most popular code in the South Island behind union and cricket. National interest in rugby league has grown 5% since 2020 and South Island interest has nearly doubled since 2022.
The Warriors are the most popular New Zealand sporting team at national and South Island level, but the Crusaders and Canterbury rugby teams and the Canterbury Kings cricket teams are the most popular in Christchurch. Among league fans in the South Island, 73% support the Warriors - the figure is 66% in the Canterbury region. A strong crossover of rugby union and rugby league fans - 26% support both codes.
So the support is unquestioned - and the economic benefits are also potentially attractive.
ChristchurchNZ released figures to The Press from a report by Fresh Info on the economic impact from the March 2024 game between the Warriors and Raiders at Apollo Projects Stadium.
It attracted 15,900 unique attendees, including 6250 visitors to Christchurch, resulting in 7000 visitor nights and $1.4m in visitor spend. Loren Aberhart, ChristchurchNZ’s general manager of destinations and attractions, said the high numbers of local and domestic attendees “show just how strong the demand in the South Island is for NRL games. For residents attending, 96% agreed events like this make the city a more enjoyable place to live.”
Frank Endacott, in presenting the SI NRL bid team’s submission to the city council in 2024, suggested a NRL team could bring in up to $50m in economic benefit to the region each year.
So, a NRL team in the South Island - population 1.3 million - makes dollars and sense.
But what did the Perth and PNG bids have that the South Island didn’t? Tangible political backing.
The Australian Government agreed to invest $600m over 10 years to set up the PNG franchise for geopolitical reasons largely aimed at countering China’s growing presence in the Pacific. PNG’s government pitched in by agreeing to make players’ salaries tax-free - a sweetener worth up to $500,000 a year for a marquee signing.
Western Australia’s state government, led by premier Roger Cook, masterminded the Bears deal, reportedly worth $50m in the first instance.
Direct financial backing for a sports franchise is beyond the Christchurch City Council’s remit, although it did agree to make land available for a NRL team’s high performance centre.
It would be difficult to get Government funding in the high cost of living climate. Nor would it be fair when the Warriors have had to, largely, go it alone through private investment for 30 years.
It would help the Christchurch cause if there was one bid - not three - with heavyweight backing - both commercially and politically.
The Press understands some South Island companies and overseas interested were keen to back a NRL team if a licence was granted, but the trick lies in getting approval in the first instance.
There could be a case for a broker, say South Island Minister James Meager or Regional Development Minister Shane Jones, to swing in behind a Christchurch bid because of the potential benefits to the region.
They could act as an intermediary between registered people in the Government’s new Active Investor Plus resident visa scheme - whereby investors are invited to invest a minimum of $5m in Growth category projects for a minimum of three years.
They might find there is someone like Bill Foley - the American billionaire behind Auckland FC, the wildly successful start-up A-League club that has just won the Premier’s Plate round robin competition.
The Auckland FC example is pertinent to the South Island NRL bid case. The Auckland FC-Wellington Phoenix derby has already generated record crowds. Imagine the potential for two annual games between the Warriors and a South Island side?
Players and coaches seem in no doubt about the support in Christchurch.
Warriors captain Mitchell Barnett spoke after Friday’s win over the Knights of his love of playing in Christchurch. “I was lucky enough to play down here last year with the Kangaroos. I was on the away team, but [the fans] cheered me, it was one of the best moments of my career…
“I love this crowd and with the Warriors they were twice as loud, it was awesome. The singing afterwards was incredible. It was just great we could get the result for them, it’s a special place, we are enjoying our time here”.
Adam O’Brien, the Knights coach, agreed. “For a lot of us, it’s the first time we’ve been here, but the local community has been unreal to us. And, the stadium, the atmosphere was awesome.”
Asked if he thought Christchurch could support a NRL team, O’Brien said: “Based on what I’ve seen here, yeah I do. The Warriors have done a tremendous job, but it’s a big enough country to support two, isn’t it?”
Tony Smith is a senior sports reporter at The Press.
NZWarriors.com
Thanks mate.Warriors' sell-out Christchurch support makes compelling case for South Island NRL
Christchurch fans show their support for the Warriors at a sold-out game against the Knights at Apollo Projects Stadium on Friday.JOHN DAVIDSON / PHOTOSPORT
ANALYSIS: Commercial backers and political power brokers must surely see the potential for a South Island NRL rugby league team after another full-house for the Warriors in Christchurch.
A capacity crowd of 17,095 turned out for the Warriors’ 26-16 Anzac Day win over the Newcastle Knights, staying long after the final whistle to sing and chant.
The support reinforced Christchurch’s status as, arguably, the best ‘home away from home’ destination for any NRL club. Interest in rugby league in the South Island has reportedly doubled since 2022, and a study shows that a NRL franchise in Christchurch would return a $3 million profit from its first year.
Even Knights coach Adam O’Brien said on Friday it seemed obvious that Christchurch could support a NRL team.
New images of the look of Christchurch's Te Kaha/One New Zealand Stadium.SUPPLIED
The NRL has plans to expand the current 17-team competition to 20 clubs.
The Perth Bears have got the nod to enter in 2027, according to reports. A Papua New Guinea side is set to join in 2028.
The case for Christchurch to have the 20th team sometime in the future is compelling.
Three separate bids for a licence for a South Island club were rejected by the NRL last year.
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISE WITH STUFF
The hopeful bidders were the Southern Orcas (backed by Sir Graham Lowe and Andrew Chalmers), the South Island Kea led by former NRL and NZ Rugby chief executive David Moffett, and a SI NRL group, now spearheaded by former Warriors and Kiwis coach Frank Endacott after three foundation directors withdrew.
All three bid groups emphasised the jewel in Christchurch’s crown - the 30,00-seat roofed One New Zealand Stadium at Te Kaha - where the Warriors will bring a game for the next three years from 2026.
The groups, variously, had support in principle from the Canterbury Rugby League, the Christchurch City Council and Ngāi Tahu, the Canterbury Rugby League and other territorial rugby leagues, who could see the benefit of a second New Zealand NRL team to complement the Warriors.
The Orcas claim to have $60m in capital funding from South Island investors as part of a bid worth $360m, including a central hotel development, but they have not yet publicly named their backer. The Kea also reported considerable commercial support.
The Warriors run out onto Apollo Projects Stadium for a pre-season game in 2023.JOHN DAVIDSON / PHOTOSPORT
Information released to The Press by one of the bids (which requested anonymity), suggest the numbers would stack up for a South Island NRL team investor.
The bid team commissioned the Gemba Group, an Australian-based sports and entertainment strategic analysis firm, to prepare reports to support its 2024 application to the NRL.
The reports projected a $3m profit in the team’s first year in the league from a revenue base of $36.2m, with the surplus projected to reach $4.2m by the 10th year - provided NRL grant extension and maximum sponsorship targets are attained. (The NRL delivers a $21m grant annually to each club).
The Gemba reports showed a South Island NRL team would generate up to $29m a year to the NRL in additional broadcast revenue, deliver a viewership base of 259,000 and a potential market of 282,000 people in the South Island, including 36,000 “converted rugby union fans’’.
It could expect a membership base of 10,600 and an average game attendance of 8600 - both figures would be the lowest of existing NRL clubs
But the Gemba study emphasised the South Island team would be financially viable, despite not having the same gaming funding and food and beverage revenue sources as some Australian clubs.
It made comparisons with a South Island team’s estimated risk profile to that of teams based in Brisbane, Wellington, Perth and PNG. It found the South Island had the second lowest risk to Brisbane, a city where 42% of sports fans are passionate about rugby league.
The Gemba study - and the sell-out crowds for recent Warriors and Kiwis matches in Christchurch - affirm the growing support for rugby league in the South Island.
Andrew Webster interacts with Warriors fans in Christchurch.JOHN DAVIDSON / PHOTOSPORT
Rugby League is the second most popular sport in New Zealand, according to Gemba, with 32% of the population "fanatics of the sport'' and 50% of the population are "not at all passionate about rugby league". Rugby union is most popular sport (43%).
League is the third most popular code in the South Island behind union and cricket. National interest in rugby league has grown 5% since 2020 and South Island interest has nearly doubled since 2022.
The Warriors are the most popular New Zealand sporting team at national and South Island level, but the Crusaders and Canterbury rugby teams and the Canterbury Kings cricket teams are the most popular in Christchurch. Among league fans in the South Island, 73% support the Warriors - the figure is 66% in the Canterbury region. A strong crossover of rugby union and rugby league fans - 26% support both codes.
So the support is unquestioned - and the economic benefits are also potentially attractive.
ChristchurchNZ released figures to The Press from a report by Fresh Info on the economic impact from the March 2024 game between the Warriors and Raiders at Apollo Projects Stadium.
A packed stand at Apollo Projects Stadium for the Warriors’ win over the Raiders in 2024.JOHN DAVIDSON / PHOTOSPORT
It attracted 15,900 unique attendees, including 6250 visitors to Christchurch, resulting in 7000 visitor nights and $1.4m in visitor spend. Loren Aberhart, ChristchurchNZ’s general manager of destinations and attractions, said the high numbers of local and domestic attendees “show just how strong the demand in the South Island is for NRL games. For residents attending, 96% agreed events like this make the city a more enjoyable place to live.”
Frank Endacott, in presenting the SI NRL bid team’s submission to the city council in 2024, suggested a NRL team could bring in up to $50m in economic benefit to the region each year.
So, a NRL team in the South Island - population 1.3 million - makes dollars and sense.
But what did the Perth and PNG bids have that the South Island didn’t? Tangible political backing.
The Australian Government agreed to invest $600m over 10 years to set up the PNG franchise for geopolitical reasons largely aimed at countering China’s growing presence in the Pacific. PNG’s government pitched in by agreeing to make players’ salaries tax-free - a sweetener worth up to $500,000 a year for a marquee signing.
Jackson Ford of the Warriors scores a try against the Knights at Christchurch’s Apollo Projects Stadium.JOHN DAVIDSON
Western Australia’s state government, led by premier Roger Cook, masterminded the Bears deal, reportedly worth $50m in the first instance.
Direct financial backing for a sports franchise is beyond the Christchurch City Council’s remit, although it did agree to make land available for a NRL team’s high performance centre.
It would be difficult to get Government funding in the high cost of living climate. Nor would it be fair when the Warriors have had to, largely, go it alone through private investment for 30 years.
It would help the Christchurch cause if there was one bid - not three - with heavyweight backing - both commercially and politically.
The Press understands some South Island companies and overseas interested were keen to back a NRL team if a licence was granted, but the trick lies in getting approval in the first instance.
There could be a case for a broker, say South Island Minister James Meager or Regional Development Minister Shane Jones, to swing in behind a Christchurch bid because of the potential benefits to the region.
Work continuing on the build of Te Kaha/One New Zealand stadium, due to open in 2026.PETER MEECHAM / THE PRESS
They could act as an intermediary between registered people in the Government’s new Active Investor Plus resident visa scheme - whereby investors are invited to invest a minimum of $5m in Growth category projects for a minimum of three years.
They might find there is someone like Bill Foley - the American billionaire behind Auckland FC, the wildly successful start-up A-League club that has just won the Premier’s Plate round robin competition.
The Auckland FC example is pertinent to the South Island NRL bid case. The Auckland FC-Wellington Phoenix derby has already generated record crowds. Imagine the potential for two annual games between the Warriors and a South Island side?
Players and coaches seem in no doubt about the support in Christchurch.
Warriors captain Mitchell Barnett spoke after Friday’s win over the Knights of his love of playing in Christchurch. “I was lucky enough to play down here last year with the Kangaroos. I was on the away team, but [the fans] cheered me, it was one of the best moments of my career…
“I love this crowd and with the Warriors they were twice as loud, it was awesome. The singing afterwards was incredible. It was just great we could get the result for them, it’s a special place, we are enjoying our time here”.
Adam O’Brien, the Knights coach, agreed. “For a lot of us, it’s the first time we’ve been here, but the local community has been unreal to us. And, the stadium, the atmosphere was awesome.”
Asked if he thought Christchurch could support a NRL team, O’Brien said: “Based on what I’ve seen here, yeah I do. The Warriors have done a tremendous job, but it’s a big enough country to support two, isn’t it?”
Tony Smith is a senior sports reporter at The Press.
NZWarriors.com
The NZ bids or the team in charge of the Christchurch stadium should approach some teams to move games across to Christchurch.
The Warriors are currently a good draw in terms of crowds. A full house at the new stadium vs what they attract at their normal home grounds.
Like the debate for the Auckland Stadium. The more often it isused the better. Also, having NRL games here provides them with an opportunity to push their bid. Show there is support for a team, a chance to discuss their bids with any NRL officials who come across.
The challenge would be getting teams to move their games. Some have in the past but it never seems to be a long-term commitment.
If the earliest time for a second NZ side is not until after the 2032 Olympics they need to get their bids sorted financially and also use the time to push their bid. Draw crowds, the player talking about the support and the stadium/facilities.
The Warriors are currently a good draw in terms of crowds. A full house at the new stadium vs what they attract at their normal home grounds.
Like the debate for the Auckland Stadium. The more often it isused the better. Also, having NRL games here provides them with an opportunity to push their bid. Show there is support for a team, a chance to discuss their bids with any NRL officials who come across.
The challenge would be getting teams to move their games. Some have in the past but it never seems to be a long-term commitment.
If the earliest time for a second NZ side is not until after the 2032 Olympics they need to get their bids sorted financially and also use the time to push their bid. Draw crowds, the player talking about the support and the stadium/facilities.
The biding teams own report cant hide the numbers
Queensland I can only really talk to anecdotally through mates but it’s essentially diluting the Queensland teams supporter base each time a new team was added, when it was Broncs it was pretty much the default QLD team the same way the Warriors are pretty much the default NZ team.
Giants/Seagulls/Titans have struggled a bit to eat into the QLD supporter base, initially because they had to be based in northern NSW they were seen as a bit of a plastic QLD team and that rep has been tough for them to shake. When the cows and crushers came in cows took over northern QLD for the most part and crushers were there to cater for the bronco hater Brisbane crowd. When the crushers got the boot I believe the cows filled that gap a bit until the dolphins came in.
Dolphins pretty much filled the gap to have a game in Brisbane most weekends and fill 9s desire for the Brisbane tv slot, now that they’re there it’s kind of diminishing returns for new teams… for now, it is a rapidly growing area. It would be like Auckland getting a second team- who would they really cater for? Needs to be a definitive point of difference.
The population thing isn’t necessarily a decisive factor, Victoria and NZ are current 1 team areas thathave larger populations than QLD but don’t necessarily warrant an extra team(s), in reality the 10 NSW teams are drawing from 9million NSW fans not those confined to their respective suburbs.
Sydney blatantly has too many teams but that is a symptom of the comp evolving from a suburban Sydney comp. Superleague had a golden opportunity to address this but didn’t, if you look at the attached Map the majority of Sydney clubs are tripping over each other and only really Penrith, Parramatta and the SW Tigers area have clear breathing space. Manly could have been in a similar strong position had they not shafted norths in favour of focusing on a small section
NZWarriors.com
The likes of Perth and Magic round generally have to stump up a decent amount of cash to get teams to forego their home games these days.
Plus selling it to their own members loosing a home game can be quite difficult, you see how our own fans hate having the magic round ‘home game’ and the Auckland members that get pissed off at games played in other parts of NZ.
Covid kinda showed how unwilling teams are to move a game when no one but the Tigers brought a game to NZ
One aspect that I haven't seen talked about is how the extra teams will significantly lower the standard of reserve grade, particularly Q Cup.
NSW Cup is currently a superior standard, with no limitations on NRL players, while Q Cup teams are limited to 8 (or something around that number) NRL players per team in any given match day squad. The PNG Hunters will likely become weaker in that competition too
NSW Cup is currently a superior standard, with no limitations on NRL players, while Q Cup teams are limited to 8 (or something around that number) NRL players per team in any given match day squad. The PNG Hunters will likely become weaker in that competition too
NZWarriors.com
I suspect this is a big factor in the NRL pushing hard for ownership and control of Superleague
I understand that. This is something the people (NZ bids, Stadiums) in NZ will need to tackle if they want to get a club to move a game.
The reason we used to see games played in front of small crowds in an 80k stadium in the early 2000's was the Olympic Stadium would make it financially viable for the clubs to play there. It is likely to get games played here there would need to be sone financial arrangements. That would probably prove an issue from the NZ side. There is less money to spend compared to Australia and a different attitude to spending between the two countries.
What I was suggesting was more a different way of thinking for the NZ bids. While they are waiting, get NRL content here to keep the flame burning. Billy Moore mentioned how every time there were games played in WA they'd pull a crowd. Obviously that isn't the deciding factor it does play a small part.
