NRL New Importance of the Second Row

[MrFrankWhite]

With the speed of the game increasing and the top teams emerging, a theoey I'm playing with is the second rowers, 11,12, and 13 are playing an over sized role in the game at the moment. The base of the theory it is the second rowers are required make dominant tackles and slow the ruck more than anyone, and they have to have enough speed to scramble and shut down the edge runner exploiting the space.

Looking at the top teams

Sharks
Nikora / Wilton / McInnes

Panthers
Garner / Martin / Yeo

Storm
Blore / Katoa / Loiero

Dolphins
Kaufusi / Aitken / Plath


Conversely

Tigers have the worst 2nd row, with Warriors and Rabbits close behind. The outlier is the Titans, but now Fafita/Fermor/Hass are together, they are starting to win. Anyway I could be completely wrong and talking shit, but let me know what you think.

 

[run_it_str8_again]

Last year we had Barney and Fordy hunting like a pair of rabid feral mongrel dogs. Case in point. A day game against the Raiders. A long kick. Fielded and returned by Rapana who was belted by Barney then squashed by Ford if my memory serves me right. Then we inserted Niukore onto an edge and were sailing.

This year Capewell Tohu and Ford are appearing near on impotent with our loss of Niukore who was going to be a middle anyway. I said somewhere else that letting Curran go lost us some dog fighting instinct and currently our back row is SOFT. So I agree with your theory and think Ale to take Tohu's starting spot. I'd get into Laban and start him but get into his head about imposing himself on defence and being a bully on attack. Then I would get Ford to increase his aggression and challenge him to set a benchmark of destroying opposition edges. Part of it is skills based. Part size and how to maximise that. Part head space which we seriously lack any serious intimidating factor.

 

[BabylonPink]

Backrow of

11.Barnett
12.Niukore
13.Walker

Could be ok
8.AFB
10.Tohu

14.Lyssuck
15.Afoa
16.Jazz
17.Ford

 

[Makasene]

Feels a little over analysed to me.

The game has been trending towards mobile forwards for sometime, ours are not...

I don't necessarily put added importance on the second row but as OP has pointed out a lot, the likes of Tohu & Barny are struggling to move laterally.

 

[Beastmode]

If you ask me

Capewell
Tohu
Ford

They are clones of each other

Tohu 1.0
Tohu 2.0
Tohu 3.0

All with zero xfactor. Hard workers for sure. Grinders. But they won’t break the line or dominate packs.

Capewell and Tohu are well past their best and Ford’s ceiling has been reached

What we need is a point of difference. variety, youth and natural aggression. You got that last year with Marata, Curran, Walker and Jazz. Each brings something different to the table making it hard for opponents to read

Laban looks decent but he has the same demeaner as Tohu

Tohu 4.0????

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

I think 2nd rowers have always been key players in attack and defence and they need to be big and skill-full.

To me they are the biggest reason we can’t turn our dominance into points. No threat in attack and not able to dominate in defence.

Not as fussed on 13. Yes Tohu is labouring but our edges are the bigger issue as they are more individually exposed whereas Tohu works in a pack.

Niukore and Curren are big losses with Capewell not what we needed.

 

[Madds]

I don’t buy into this.

Rugby league has always been a simple game. The team that runs hardest, tackles hardest and has self belief, generally comes out on top.

The Warriors don’t suck right now, because “this player” was replaced by “that player” or these positions are weak, “this guys” too old etc.

They suck, because teams are coming for them and their confidence has gone. Team disruption, injuries, consistency, coach and player decisions. It’s all played a part. But ultimately as a collective you need to be hungrier and more confident than the opposition to win.

This team as individuals and as a collective has just lost its mojo. Will they get it back? I think they can, but the injuries need to slow down.

 

[Damo]

I think 2nd rowers have always been key players in attack and defence and they need to be big and skill-full.

To me they are the biggest reason we can’t turn our dominance into points. No threat in attack and not able to dominate in defence.

Not as fussed on 13. Yes Tohu is labouring but our edges are the bigger issue as they are more individually exposed whereas Tohu works in a pack.

Niukore and Curren are big losses with Capewell not what we needed.

Capewell would be fine if we didn't already have Jackson Ford. Could not have foreseen his injuries this season as they have mostly been unrelated.

 

[Damo]

I said somewhere else that letting Curran go lost us some dog fighting instinct and currently our back row is SOFT.

Curran played 49 mins on average for us last season, whilst it would be amazing to have him now with all our injuries, he likely would not be making a difference now. People are overstating how big a loss he is just because he was a fan favourite and because the team he has gone to is doing better than us.

 

[Cces]

Curran played 49 mins on average for us last season, whilst it would be amazing to have him now with all our injuries, he likely would not be making a difference now. People are overstating how big a loss he is just because he was a fan favourite and because the team he has gone to is doing better than us.

It's not like he was Mr Consistent either. There was a game last season where he played 19 mins, made zero metres, missed 2 tackles, conceded a penalty & a 6 again. While I'd start him this weekend if he was on the books, the guy didn't want to be a Warrior this year.
Goodbye & goodluck with your "third Halfback" ambitions

 

[MrFrankWhite]

They suck, because teams are coming for them and their confidence has gone.

This is the biggest cop out line of all time and I don't buy.

We aren't winning because "teams are taking us seriously"? I mean come on, that's fucking pathetic and absolves anyone of any accountability.

 

[Juno]

I think 2nd rowers have always been key players in attack and defence and they need to be big and skill-full.

To me they are the biggest reason we can’t turn our dominance into points. No threat in attack and not able to dominate in defence.

Not as fussed on 13. Yes Tohu is labouring but our edges are the bigger issue as they are more individually exposed whereas Tohu works in a pack.

Niukore and Curren are big losses with Capewell not what we needed.

Agree.
The edges have to be mobile in attack and definitely in defence. They're called edges because they have to cover their edge.
Traditionally lock is a middle. For those bagging Tohu for no x-factor? By the nrl ex players/ commentators & more than a couple of coach's accounts in the past couple of years he has redefined the lock role, roams either side as well as up the middle and his ballplaying has created an extra back or pivot. He was instrumental in our short passes that worked so well last year.
Totally agree Tohu is labouring atm, has been covering a 3rd of the paddock and doing it injured ( no not his knees ). After this last game I'd say he's out for a while.
Marata is sorely missed like everyone is saying and hopefully Walker is ok. Looking forward to CHT coming back.
Hopefully see a bit of mixing it up in the back play more with sj out.
Back to the topic...the rule changes mean the game has sped up yet again and the days of big middles is almost gone unless they're really mobile. Backs and edges are almost interchangeable sizewise for the most part.
We've entered the era of the spectacle folks, Vegas Specials every week, high scores & pretty boys & injuries galore!

 

[Up the guttz]

I like Ale at 13

As for the 2nd row. Hopefully our youngsters kick on.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Agree.
The edges have to be mobile in attack and definitely in defence. They're called edges because they have to cover their edge.
Traditionally lock is a middle. For those bagging Tohu for no x-factor? By the nrl ex players/ commentators & more than a couple of coach's accounts in the past couple of years he has redefined the lock role, roams either side as well as up the middle and his ballplaying has created an extra back or pivot. He was instrumental in our short passes that worked so well last year.
Totally agree Tohu is labouring atm, has been covering a 3rd of the paddock and doing it injured ( no not his knees ). After this last game I'd say he's out for a while.
Marata is sorely missed like everyone is saying and hopefully Walker is ok. Looking forward to CHT coming back.
Hopefully see a bit of mixing it up in the back play more with sj out.
Back to the topic...the rule changes mean the game has sped up yet again and the days of big middles is almost gone unless they're really mobile. Backs and edges are almost interchangeable sizewise for the most part.
We've entered the era of the spectacle folks, Vegas Specials every week, high scores & pretty boys & injuries galore!

I feel my criticism of Tohu is misunderstood. Like Shaq and Ali at the end of their careers, the body slows down as your opponents speed up. The problem is precisely that he WAS so good, and now the game has sped up right as he's declining / injured and so it makes it more pronounced. Im also trying to figure out we have fallen so far off a cliff with so little changes.

The broncos for example have Paikura, Riki, and Carrigan so even without Reynolds they can compete.

On the flipside for example the Eels have Lane, Matterson, Hopgood. Look how their season is going... Although Hopgood is building nicely

 

[Makasene]

I feel my criticism of Tohu is misunderstood. Like Shaq and Ali at the end of their careers, the body slows down as your opponents speed up. The problem is precisely that he WAS so good, and now the game has sped up right as he's declining / injured and so it makes it more pronounced. Im also trying to figure out we have fallen so far off a cliff with so little changes.

The broncos for example have Paikura, Riki, and Carrigan so even without Reynolds they can compete.

On the flipside for example the Eels have Lane, Matterson, Hopgood. Look how their season is going... Although Hopgood is building nicely

Broncs also have Ezra Mam and Walsh.

Gutherson and Brown are nowhere near as lethal.

 

[Brightman]

Injuries have stretched and exposed our pack that last season hunted together so well.
Ideally with no injuries this
10. AFB
9. Egan
8. Bunty
11. Ford
12. Niukore
13. Ale

14. Harris (C) subs Bunty after 15
15. Capewell subs Marata or injury cover at centre
16. Barnett subs AFB after 30
17. Walker subs Ale after 30

But with our currently injury deleted squad it may be a golden opportunity to blood the next generation..

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Broncs also have Ezra Mam and Walsh.

Gutherson and Brown are nowhere near as lethal.

True and excellent counter, but the eels backline can and do look like world beaters some times. Drop the Broncs 2nd row in and Id bet money on them being well inside the top 8.

 

[run_it_str8_again]

Curran played 49 mins on average for us last season, whilst it would be amazing to have him now with all our injuries, he likely would not be making a difference now. People are overstating how big a loss he is just because he was a fan favourite and because the team he has gone to is doing better than us.

People that said that are entitled to their opinion but mine is that he added to our starch as in he would fight back. Not necessarily with punches. And right now would be a hindsight better than Capewell. Would be great on our nutrient deficienct bench.

 

[run_it_str8_again]

Laban looks decent but he has the same demeaner as Tohu

Tohu 4.0????

He's young enough to build some tough guy into him. I loved the way he smashed somebody a few weeks ago. But the very next play we gave up a try. Build him tough and intelligent as in game smart. That might help

 

[Beastmode]

Agree.
The edges have to be mobile in attack and definitely in defence. They're called edges because they have to cover their edge.
Traditionally lock is a middle. For those bagging Tohu for no x-factor? By the nrl ex players/ commentators & more than a couple of coach's accounts in the past couple of years he has redefined the lock role, roams either side as well as up the middle and his ballplaying has created an extra back or pivot. He was instrumental in our short passes that worked so well last year.
Totally agree Tohu is labouring atm, has been covering a 3rd of the paddock and doing it injured ( no not his knees ). After this last game I'd say he's out for a while.
Marata is sorely missed like everyone is saying and hopefully Walker is ok. Looking forward to CHT coming back.
Hopefully see a bit of mixing it up in the back play more with sj out.
Back to the topic...the rule changes mean the game has sped up yet again and the days of big middles is almost gone unless they're really mobile. Backs and edges are almost interchangeable sizewise for the most part.
We've entered the era of the spectacle folks, Vegas Specials every week, high scores & pretty boys & injuries galore!

To clarify -

When I say Tohu has no xfactor I mean right now

He had it before but has since lost it with age and being overused

A well rested Tohu with less minutes and pressure on his plate he might get some of it back but time is running out