Politics 🤡 Donald Trump

[snake77]

I am not advocating for any ban on vaccines or water. All I am saying is that the way things have evolved in the US means that the people making the vaccines want to make the most $$ they can (fair enough they are beholden by shareholders), I would say that's their number one goal and the number one goal of most companies; that goal is not aligned with the best outcome for society. So the government needs to regulate the way things are developed, tested, rolled out etc. But because of the way lobbyists and campaign donations work the people elected are beholden to the companies they need to regulate.

So in my opinion the Government needs to work out how to keep the two separate, you will never get all of the corruption out but you can make it a lot better than now, I don't understand why that's so hard to understand?

I also think a lot of people's thinking around this issue has been coloured by the experience you had in COVID. I followed government advice and got all my vaccines and boosters, I wasn't so worried about what others did thats their choice. I knew there was a risk with that because the vaccine was rolled out faster than normal and there were all different vaccines but there was an unknown factor around COVID where were told it was a lot worse than it was. I still got sicker than I have ever been with COVID. If it happened again I would be hesitant to take a rushed vaccine.
That doesn't mean I am anti vaccines, it just means I would take a more cautious approach.

I am pretty sure in U.S there are laws on limiting suing the pharmaceutical companies. If there isn't it is extremely difficult. I haven't hear RFK jr wanting to change that but I know he's keen on looking at vaccines a bit more.

One interview I heard with him it sounded like vaccines weren't anything he was concerned about until a number of woman came to him with specific symptoms after a specific type of vaccine.

A lot can be learnt from covid.

Older people like my father remember polio and will take it as they remember a vaccine that fixed the issue and they have been advised to take it. Also, he was in the group at risk of covid. Calling him to check on him when he had it was a worry as he'd take a while to answer and then would sound really bad.

I got vaccinated early as we had a centre up the road and we could get on a list if people didn't turn up. In hindsight I may not have got vaccinated. It would depend on if my job would have been at stake or not. We had to provide if we were vaccinated or not to provide it to customers. However, some of the owners of the company were not vaccinated so it would have been hypocritical for them to complain about me not getting it.

I never agreed with a lot of the restrictions for people her were not vaccinated. Here for example it seemed like it would be going back to sporting events. It then seemed to get more restrictive. Each country was different.

People have a right to question what they are putting into their bodies.

America is an unhealthy country. A lot of them are on medication, health issues then require more recommendation. They have high obesity rates which puts more pressure on the health system. Like a lot of countries the amount needed to combat type-2 diabetes or other weight related issues is climbing.

We (NZ) should be monitoring what he implements and learn from it. If it doesn't work we can look at something out. We do have some of the same issues.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

It’s like covid gave all the vaccine deniers all the belief they needed that vaccines were bad

I was fully vacinated by choice and have a faith in science but the way it was rolled out caused all the issues.

Saying it wouldn’t be mandatory initially then people would lose their career if they didn’t get it put people offside.

I sat in a meeting and had to tell someone they were out of a job if they didn’t get vacinated while they were crying, which didn’t sit well with me and turned me against the way things were done.

And you can guarantee all those actually forced to get vaccinated are now entrenched in their distrust of authority and vaccines. Especially when everyone vaccinated still got covid…

The govt promoted treating them like lepers and I believe this has flowed into the spike in crime, dropping of school attendance and drop off in vaccine rates of traditional vaccines as those ostracised from society don’t care much for society now.

Poorly rolled out and mandating was wrong.

 

[Cces]

And you can guarantee all those actually forced to get vaccinated are now entrenched in their distrust of authority and vaccines. Especially when everyone vaccinated still got covid…

Big blanket statement there.
I was forced to make a decision on whether I wanted to keep my current job or not and whether or not I wanted to keep the ability to visit my father in assisted living for a 4 month period.
I don't now have an entrenched distrust in authority or vaccines nor have I had covid

 

[MrFrankWhite]

But water can harm people, even kill them

Not even slightly in the same context. This is not a gotcha if you have an IQ over 80.

Normal consumption of H20 = 100% safe
Normal dose of a vaccine = 99.99989% safe

 

[Cces]

Not even slightly in the same context. This is not a gotcha if you have an IQ over 80.

Normal consumption of H20 = 100% safe
Normal dose of a vaccine = 99.99989% safe

Frank, it's not an attempt at a gotcha moment. Someone stated no vaccines are safe and I responded to that person by saying that no water is safe if you also take that same outlook.
You've added your 2 cents & gone down the consumption route.
Water kills Frank, that's undisputable but there's no need for fear mongering about either it or vaccines

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Frank it's not an attempt at a gotcha moment. Someone stated no vaccines are safe and I responded to that person by saying that no water is safe if you also take that same outlook.
You've added your 2 cents & gone done the consumption route.
Water kills Frank, that's undisputable but there's no need for fear mongering about either it or vaccines

Mate its a retarded strawman argument that a child should be embarrassed to make. Of course its about consumption because you can OD on anything, and you can die by misadventure with anything.

When people make statements about vaccine safety, they are referring to the adverse reaction rate, which exists for all drugs. You have subsequently tried to claim there is an adverse reaction rate for water, which is factually incorrect. All you've done is demonstrate you don't have much understanding on the topic.

Heres some help from your govt.

All medicines and vaccines can cause adverse reactions in some people. Adverse reactions can range from headaches and upset stomach to more serious reactions such as liver or kidney injury. Some adverse reactions can be predicted, but some adverse reactions occur unexpectedly once many people take the medicine (eg, severe allergy). Most people take medicines without suffering any serious adverse reactions.

Adverse Reactions to Medicines

medsafe.govt.nz

 

[Cces]

You have subsequently tried to claim there is an adverse reaction rate for water, which is factually incorrect.

Frank, there's no need to make stuff up now....

 

[Make my day]

You have subsequently tried to claim there is an adverse reaction rate for water, which is factually incorrect. All you've done is demonstrate you don't have much understanding on the topic.

Suggest you look like Aquagenic urticaria. What's that saying about glass houses?

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Suggest you look like Aquagenic urticaria. What's that saying about glass houses?

50/50. Thats just a form of chronic urticaria which has no known cause but multiple forms of triggers. Not sure 50 cases ever recorded of mild hives meets the threshold. Good point though

 

[Tragic]

Suggest you look like Aquagenic urticaria. What's that saying about glass houses?

We could try an experiment. You give up all forms of water for a month and I will give up all vaccines for a month and let's give daily updates here.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

We could try an experiment. You give up all forms of water for a month and I will give up all vaccines for a month and let's give daily updates here.

Man used to live on beer a few centuries ago because it was safer to drink than water!

Don’t give him an excuse

 

[Make my day]

We could try an experiment. You give up all forms of water for a month and I will give up all vaccines for a month and let's give daily updates here.

Does beer count?
My argument is that Frank claimed water was 100% safe with no adverse reactions. However some people do have a skin reaction to even their own sweat and tears. Granted we are talking about 100s of people out of how ever many billion. When making 100% claims about humans be careful. Except for death and taxes.

 

[dean]

Trump won easily in the end.
Poor campaign by the other lot. Seemed to take it for granted that women, blacks, gays , minority groups and just about anyone that wasn't a straight white male would naturally vote against Trump. Turns out they were wrong.

 

[miket12]

Interesting that Trump has occasionally mentioned about standing again in 2028. The 22nd Amendment of the US Constitution says that “no person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice”. To change the Constitution would require 3/4's of the Senate and the House of Representatives to vote for it and then be ratified by 3/4's of the States. The Republicans don't have the numbers for that but there is another way around it.

Trump controls the US Supreme Court and while they don't have the power to change the Constitution, they do have the capability to rule on it.... like how they ruled Trump couldn't be charged with any involvement with the storming of the Capitol building because he was still President. Trump could simply ask them to rule on whether the 22nd Amendment was only being elected President during consecutive elections meaning he could stand again in 2028.

 

[juju]

Interesting that Trump has occasionally mentioned about standing again in 2028. The 22nd Amendment of the US Constitution says that “no person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice”. To change the Constitution would require 3/4's of the Senate and the House of Representatives to vote for it and then be ratified by 3/4's of the States. The Republicans don't have the numbers for that but there is another way around it.

Trump controls the US Supreme Court and while they don't have the power to change the Constitution, they do have the capability to rule on it.... like how they ruled Trump couldn't be charged with any involvement with the storming of the Capitol building because he was still President. Trump could simply ask them to rule on whether the 22nd Amendment was only being elected President during consecutive elections meaning he could stand again in 2028.

I have a feeling US politics is going to get weird and weirder here on out.

 

[Tragic]

Interesting that Trump has occasionally mentioned about standing again in 2028.

I have never heard him say that. I have heard MSM claim that's what he wants by translating other things he has said into that's what he means.
There is too much fake news to believe anything anymore unless you hear it directly from someone.
With AI what you see and hear won't be reliable either pretty soon.

 

[miket12]

I have never heard him say that. I have heard MSM claim that's what he wants by translating other things he has said into that's what he means.
There is too much fake news to believe anything anymore unless you hear it directly from someone.
With AI what you see and hear won't be reliable either pretty soon.

1. Talking to House Republicans after winning both chambers of Congress and the White House, Trump hinted that they could help prolong his presidency.

“I suspect I won’t be running again unless you say, ‘He’s so good we’ve got to figure something else out,’” Trump said.

2. Speaking to members of the National Rifle Association in May, he said: “I don’t know, are we going to be considered three-term or two-term? Are we three-term or two-term if we win?”

3. And during his first term in office, Trump suggested to his supporters at a September 2020 rally in Nevada that term limits were not set in stone.

“We’re going to win four more years in the White House,” he said. “And then after that, we’ll negotiate, right? Because we’re probably – based on the way we were treated – we are probably entitled to another four after that.”

 

[Tragic]

1. Talking to House Republicans after winning both chambers of Congress and the White House, Trump hinted that they could help prolong his presidency.

“I suspect I won’t be running again unless you say, ‘He’s so good we’ve got to figure something else out,’” Trump said.

2. Speaking to members of the National Rifle Association in May, he said: “I don’t know, are we going to be considered three-term or two-term? Are we three-term or two-term if we win?”

3. And during his first term in office, Trump suggested to his supporters at a September 2020 rally in Nevada that term limits were not set in stone.

“We’re going to win four more years in the White House,” he said. “And then after that, we’ll negotiate, right? Because we’re probably – based on the way we were treated – we are probably entitled to another four after that.”

If joe Biden said "we are entitled to another 4 years after the amazing 4 years we just delivered" would there be a news story that he was going to overturn the constitution?
I doubt it. Although I do think Trump says shit just to wind everyone up, so it could be that he means he wants another term. Maybe he is planning for it in case he needs more time out of jail.

 

[Hardyman's Yugo]

Trump, no doubt advised by the right wing plotters who surround him, are simply copying the ‘America First’ appeasement approach some advocated towards Hitler. Charles Lindbergh being a useful idiot at the time. Once Pearl Harbour happened the people advocating this, including the American Nazi ‘Bund’ party, melted away into society.

 

[Hardyman's Yugo]

It’s all well and good saying let’s have peace, but Ukraine need to decide what they want and it isn’t rule by Putin