Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[MrFrankWhite]

So you are basing this on 'people on the internet mocking them'?

No, I’m judging it on their own content that they put out.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

You seem to be educated, but this path is full of nuance and systemic issues.

And some of it is simple. I just don’t think the answer is “bad”. Nor do I think it’s static. It’s just culture in transition as we see everywhere, everytime.

 

[Damo]

They are all useless. I have routinely slagged all kiwi politicians. Prior to the election I referred to Luxon and Chris as “the potato and the nonce”. I have also had a dig at Greens and even Ben Bussy.

If you think the steaming piling that is TPM is going to get a pass from me, because they are brown, well then

I have also criticised TPM plenty of times, and where have I ever made it out like I expect you to give anyone a pass due to skin colour?

I am interested in to what specific things you are calling emotional and violent as you are still yet to mention any?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

I have also criticised TPM plenty of times, and where have I ever made it out like I expect you to give anyone a pass due to skin colour?

I am interested in to what specific things you are calling emotional and violent as you are still yet to mention any?

Haka in parliament. Emotional and violent in a place of non aggression.


TPM see colonisation as an ongoing process rather than historical which in my opinion as a non white creates a victim mentality and entrenches victimhood. It’s the worst possible thing for māori. There is ongoing disadvantage that needs to be addressed but claiming active colonisation is very divisive.

For context immigrants can come to NZ with arguably more disadvantage and within a generation be thriving! There are obviously issues to overcome but it’s also a state of mind. Many Māori are thriving and the difference between them and the perpetual victimhood after 200 years is mindset, not the English (in a multicultural country with very few English).

 

[Damo]

Haka in parliament. Emotional and violent in a place of non aggression.


TPM see colonisation as an ongoing process rather than historical which in my opinion as a non white creates a victim mentality and entrenches victimhood. It’s the worst possible thing for Maori. There is ongoing disadvantage that needs to be addressed but claiming active colonisation is very divisive.

For context immigrants can come to NZ with arguably more disadvantage and within a generation be thriving! There are obviously issues to overcome but it’s also a state of mind. Many Māori are thriving and the difference between them and the perpetual victimhood after 200 years is mindset, not the English (in a multicultural country with very few English).

Is parliament really a place of non aggression? We see politicians standing up and shouting over each other daily.. The Westminster system is designed itself to be adversial and combative. Physical violence is obviously not allowed, however, aggression is part of the point of parliament. Haka is not physically violent either. I will concede if it is out of turn and prevents other members from being heard that it is disorderly.

I agree with you on TPMs stances on colonisation, but that is a seperate debate. Parliament has never been a place of non aggression.

 

[Rick O’Shay]

Is parliament really a place of non aggression? We see politicians standing up and shouting over each other daily.. The Westminster system is designed itself to be adversial and combative. Physical violence is obviously not allowed, however, aggression is part of the point of parliament. Haka is not physically violent either. I will concede if it is out of turn and prevents other members from being heard that it is disorderly.

I agree with you on TPMs stances on colonisation, but that is a seperate debate. Parliament has never been a place of non aggression.

Very true. Who can forget Tau Henare and "Rocky" Trevor Mallard going at it back in 09.

 

[tyrael]

For context immigrants can come to NZ with arguably more disadvantage and within a generation be thriving!

Systemic issues is what holds them down. Yes, immigrants can thrive but that's because their mentality is already we want to do better because there can be better. They usually already believe in education is the way out.

If you think about family violence. It's not as easy as to just "get out". Why is family violence usually intergenerational?

If you also add that for decades māori were treated as second/third class citizens, have their language be essentially banned in schools.

Many families don't believe education is the way out because they themselves were not educated. They have their 15 year old go out to help the family make money, they refuse free Internet at home because it'll use more electricity and everyone around them is in the same boat.

(This argument has nothing to do with TPM)

 

[MrFrankWhite]

I have also criticised TPM plenty of times, and where have I ever made it out like I expect you to give anyone a pass due to skin colour?

I am interested in to what specific things you are calling emotional and violent as you are still yet to mention any?

Have you been following any of Eru Kapa-Kingi or any of the Rawhiti's outbursts or tantrums? Threatening to beat up MPs, visit peoples houses, I've seen at least 4 fights of varying groups having drama with each other.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Is parliament really a place of non aggression? We see politicians standing up and shouting over each other daily.. The Westminster system is designed itself to be adversial and combative. Physical violence is obviously not allowed, however, aggression is part of the point of parliament. Haka is not physically violent either. I will concede if it is out of turn and prevents other members from being heard that it is disorderly.

I agree with you on TPMs stances on colonisation, but that is a seperate debate. Parliament has never been a place of non aggression.

Do you think threatening physical violence over words spoken in the House to be acceptable?

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Systemic issues is what holds them down. Yes, immigrants can thrive but that's because their mentality is already we want to do better because there can be better. They usually already believe in education is the way out.

Funny that others strive on the same "systemic issues" I wonder what the difference is?

If you think about family violence. It's not as easy as to just "get out". Why is family violence usually intergenerational?

IQ

If you also add that for decades maori were treated as second/third class citizens, have their language be essentially banned in schools.

This is hardly unique to Māori.

Many families don't believe education is the way out because they themselves were not educated. They have their 15 year old go out to help the family make money, they refuse free Internet at home because it'll use more electricity and everyone around them is in the same boat.

(This argument has nothing to do with TPM)

Early Eastern Europeans and Asian cultures highly prized education even though the parents weren't educated. Again, I dont think its worthwhile to ascribe morality to it. Māori lived a warlike existence until very recently. Culture self selects the traits it needs to survive. So the willingness and ability to conduct violence was highly valued trait for a very long time.

PS @tyrael since you seem genuinely interested , see the new discussions that suggest that crime leads to poverty and not the inverse.

 

[Damo]

Have you been following any of Eru Kapa-Kingi or any of the Rawhiti's outbursts or tantrums? Threatening to beat up MP, visit peoples houses, I've seen at least 4 fights of varying groups having drama with each other.

The alleged violence wasn't to an MP it was to a security guard was never reported to police interestingly enough.. it appears from the outside to be a hit piece by John Tamihere to justify expelling his mother.

I am not sure what you are referring to and who threatened to beat up an MP or visit peoples houses.

Four public verbal altercations, sure, but since when is TPM unique in that regard and can hardly be called violent.

 

[Damo]

Do you think threatening physical violence over words spoken in the House to be acceptable?

What are you referring to here?

 

[MrFrankWhite]

What are you referring to here?

Did Eru not threaten to beat up David Seymour?

 

[MrFrankWhite]

I am not sure what you are referring to and who threatened to beat up an MP or visit peoples houses.

Examples like Harawira's vs other Māori?