Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[tyrael]

Quick q. Are you including a PPOR in net wealth when judging people to be "multi-millionaires"? Cos I have some bad news for you..

Majority of people who own just one house no matter the value are usually asset rich but cash poor. These houses could have been handed down the generations. I.e. a family that only has a house in remuera and no other significant assets I don't class as multimillionaires.

When I think of multi millionaires, I'm think they own multiple properties and/or earn enough that over a few years could accumulate a million dollars in disposable cash (Shaun Johnson is someone I consider a multi millionaires, a landlord with 3+ houses outside of their ppor).

 

[tyrael]

I don't get it? I'll not educated in things like Marxism.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

I don't get it? I'll not educated in things like Marxism.

Defending the right of people to keep what they earn, is far less onerous than advocating for forcible wealth distribution.

 

[Rick O’Shay]

I don't get it? I'll not educated in things like Marxism.

Good position to be in mate

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Majority of people who own just one house no matter the value are usually asset rich but cash poor. These houses could have been handed down the generations. I.e. a family that only has a house in remuera and no other significant assets I don't class as multimillionaires.

When I think of multi millionaires, I'm think they own multiple properties and/or earn enough that over a few years could accumulate a million dollars in disposable cash (Shaun Johnson is someone I consider a multi millionaires, a landlord with 3+ houses outside of their ppor).

~75% of of landlords in NZ own 1 property. I am also confused as to what alternative investment vehicles there are in NZ? You have even less of a business investing market than Australia. Destroyed the social license for resource extraction, added infinite layers of costs and regulation onto any commercial activity.

If you had $2milloin liquid, there's nothing to invest in NZ BUT land / property.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

It's great to see Wiz's rubbish torn to shreds so early in the day.

Not really sure how this is relevant to the discussion? Is this just another MT8 personal attack?

You carry around all this baggage and seem to let people live in your head…

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

When has a capitalist company or entity ever drop it's prices because it saved money somewhere?

My rent and no ones rent went down. Only empty houses rent went down because like Damo said, supply and demand.

Btw I believe in one rental getting tax deduction but if you own multiple and got forbid some owners who own 20+ , why do they need a tax break?

I don't understand the need for ordinary people to defend multimillionaires.

Case 1 - Rent comes up for review and landlord is losing shit loads of money - he’s going to look to increase.

Case 2 - rents up for review and landlord is covering costs - chances are rent stays stable.

 

[MaybeTop8]

~75% of of landlords in NZ own 1 property. I am also confused as to what alternative investment vehicles there are in NZ? You have even less of a business investing market than Australia. Destroyed the social license for resource extraction, added infinite layers of costs and regulation onto any commercial activity.

If you had $2milloin liquid, there's nothing to invest in NZ BUT land / property.

Thanks national and neoliberalism

 

[MaybeTop8]

Not really sure how this is relevant to the discussion? Is this just another MT8 personal attack?

You carry around all this baggage and seem to let people live in your head…

A factual observation. I know you struggle with those

 

[tyrael]

~75% of of landlords in NZ own 1 property. I am also confused as to what alternative investment vehicles there are in NZ? You have even less of a business investing market than Australia. Destroyed the social license for resource extraction, added infinite layers of costs and regulation onto any commercial activity.

If you had $2milloin liquid, there's nothing to invest in NZ BUT land / property.

Yes, so those 75% I'm saying, all is well, leave those guys alone. I'm happy for those to get some tax rebate on their rental mortgage.

I have never had excess wealth where I could invest in something so I'm uneducated in this area. But what would you say someone in Malaysia or Australia could invest in besides property?

Either way, if you invest in something you are gaining. You don't need a tax break on top of it.

 

[tyrael]

Case 1 - Rent comes up for review and landlord is losing shit loads of money - he’s going to look to increase.

Case 2 - rents up for review and landlord is covering costs - chances are rent stays stable.

Case 1 - Rent comes up for review and landlord is losing shit loads of money - he’s going to look to increase.

Case 2 - rents up for review and landlord is covering costs - chances are rent stays stable.

But in none of these cases is it going down like you mentioned.

My rent stayed stable in 2022, 2023 but went up in 2024 ($15) and 2025 ($10).

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Yes, so those 75% I'm saying, all is well, leave those guys alone. I'm happy for those to get some tax rebate on their rental mortgage.

I have never had excess wealth where I could invest in something so I'm uneducated in this area. But what would you say someone in Malaysia or Australia could invest in besides property?

Either way, if you invest in something you are gaining. You don't need a tax break on top of it.

Australia is the home of small cap miners listed on the ASX. We even have a smattering of tech cos that are public rather than the NZ in which most are privately funded particularly in early stages.

 

[Damo]

A single tax tweak… that cost landlords $10k per year and made the industry uneconomic for most investors? And it wasn’t going to be passed onto tenants???

It wasn’t done anywhere else in the word, wasn’t supported by treasury and the fact Labour won’t do it again if re-elected says it all really.

It was predicted it would be passed on to tenants and so the data shows. One of the most daft policies in NZ history!

If this was an increase to renters.. why did rents on new builds go up at the exact same rent as old houses? Because rents are set by demand...
In the same period, interest rates went from 2.5% to 7%.. of course that is going to increase rent.
Treasury warned it wouldn't help house prices, but also pointed out that the main driver of rent is disposable income. Landlords tried to pass it on but hit a brickwall in '24 and '25 due to tentants not being able to afford more..
Landlords were already charging at the max the market could bear, you can't pass on a cost to a tenant who is already at their financial max.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Either way, if you invest in something you are gaining. You don't need a tax break on top of it.

Capital looks for a return. And it will go where its incentivised. If you don't incentivise business, it will look elsewhere. IE property, bonds, offshore.

 

[MaybeTop8]

A good thread to read outlining the ideology of Simeon Brown and the resulting wastefulness


View: https://bsky.app/profile/connorsharp.bsky.social/post/3mkgirqcylk2u

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Capital looks for a return. And it will go where its incentivised. If you don't incentivise business, it will look elsewhere. IE property, bonds, offshore.

He’s the thing. We want more investment in business and less in property. I think everyone agrees on this

1 - we still need a good supply of property to meet demand so you can’t just kill it. You need to incentivise the right stuff while keeping margins low.

2 - we severely disincentivise business with a very active anti business agenda. That’s why everyone stays small in NZ.

When your trying to disincentivise property more than the huge disincentives created around business, it just ends up a very negative place!

 

[MrFrankWhite]

He’s the thing. We want more investment in business and less in property. I think everyone agrees on this

1 - we still need a good supply of property to meet demand so you can’t just kill it. You need to incentivise the right stuff while keeping margins low.

2 - we severely disincentivise business with a very active anti business agenda. That’s why everyone stays small in NZ.

When your trying to disincentivise property more than the huge disincentives created around business, it just ends up a very negative place!

Removing impediments to business investment automatically reduces property speculation. Two birds one stone.

Property building will always occur because people need shelter.

 

[tyrael]

Giving businesses tax breaks to make them invest here is always short term. Government gets less so they can invest less in it's people. These businesses are beholden to their stakeholders and only want more and more. In America's case, the biggest companies pay $0 federal tax. We're talking billion dollar profits.

Why does Robbie William need a tax break/money incentive to come here? He's not bringing tourists over. Overseas sports, yeah, that brings money, America's cup, Lions tour etc.

While I agree in principal businesses need to know they will make bank to come here, I disagree it's in the form of taking from the people from New Zealand.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Giving businesses tax breaks to make them invest here is always short term. Government gets less so they can invest less in it's people. These businesses are beholden to their stakeholders and only want more and more. In America's case, the biggest companies pay $0 federal tax. We're talking billion dollar profits.

This is the crux of the issue. The left sees the govt as the solution, the right sees them as the problem. Seriously though, show me one problem that the govt has solved by spending taxpayers dollars on?

And we aren't even talking about tax breaks, there's 100's of regulations and red tape that turns a profitable enterprise into an unprofitable one. How much tax income do you get from a closed business? How many employees? The short term thinking is taking someone elses hard earned income and pissing it up against the wall.

Why does Robbie William need a tax break/money incentive to come here? He's not bringing tourists over. Overseas sports, yeah, that brings money, America's cup, Lions tour etc.

See right here, you've picked winner and losers based of your own bias. The correct choice is no subsidies but also no impediments of which there will be plenty.

While I agree in principal businesses need to know they will make bank to come here, I disagree it's in the form of taking from the people from New Zealand.

No one is taking. Capitalism is the voluntary exchange between two parties. Taylor Swift never forced anyone to buy her music.

 

[MaybeTop8]

This is the crux of the issue. The left sees the govt as the solution, the right sees them as the problem. Seriously though, show me one problem that the govt has solved by spending taxpayers dollars on?

And we aren't even talking about tax breaks, there's 100's of regulations and red tape that turns a profitable enterprise into an unprofitable one. How much tax income do you get from a closed business? How many employees? The short term thinking is taking someone elses hard earned income and pissing it up against the wall.


See right here, you've picked winner and losers based of your own bias. The correct choice is no subsidies but also no impediments of which there will be plenty.


No one is taking. Capitalism is the voluntary exchange between two parties. Taylor Swift never forced anyone to buy her music.

Informative of you and hilarious at the same time