Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[Rick O’Shay]

How is that a problem if you say Bishop, Willis and Luxon (literally their current leader) are as well?

It's a problem if your electorate is conservative and the proposed leader isn't seen to be.

Luxon only got the job due to the influence of Key and despite his thinking is not a true conservative. The other three are deemed liberals within the party, on the left side of right if that makes sense.

The other issue is that caucus doesn't appear to be settled on rolling Luxon and are hoping he will walk. Don't think he's the type to do that so this could be very messy and whoever puts their hand up is going to be tainted. National voters have long memories and the Bridges, Muller, Collins debacle is still fresh.

National has lost it's identity as a conservative party with Act and Winston Inc taking over that role. IMO, the major parties will continue to bleed voters to the minors as they lose the identity they once had. That idealism and point of difference is now being built by the minors and I expect the minors leaders to increase their share of preferred PM.

 

[Damo]

It's a problem if your electorate is conservative and the proposed leader isn't seen to be.

Luxon only got the job due to the influence of Key and despite his thinking is not a true conservative. The other three are deemed liberals within the party, on the left side of right if that makes sense.

The other issue is that caucus doesn't appear to be settled on rolling Luxon and are hoping he will walk. Don't think he's the type to do that so this could be very messy and whoever puts their hand up is going to be tainted. National voters have long memories and the Bridges, Muller, Collins debacle is still fresh.

National has lost it's identity as a conservative party with Act and Winston Inc taking over that role. IMO, the major parties will continue to bleed voters to the minors as they lose the identity they once had. That idealism and point of difference is now being built by the minors and I expect the minors leaders to increase their share of preferred PM.

I've never seen National as truly conservative, more centre right and the opposite with Labour.

Admittedly we probably have a stark difference in age between us so you likely have a longer perspective.

 

[MaybeTop8]

I've never seen National as truly conservative, more centre right and the opposite with Labour.

Admittedly we probably have a stark difference in age between us so you likely have a longer perspective.

National have been pretty far right for a while now

 

[Rick O’Shay]

National have been pretty far right for a while now

Nowhere near it.

 

[Rick O’Shay]

I've never seen National as truly conservative, more centre right and the opposite with Labour.

Admittedly we probably have a stark difference in age between us so you likely have a longer perspective.

They certainly are centre right now and as you say, Labour the same on the other tack. It's hard to find any idealism in either of the big two and I think both younger and older voters are now (especially after the Covid years) thinking "We want to see some action" rather than the mainly bland stuff being put out.

I expect the Greens will take a lot of the Labour vote for exactly the same reason.

Always liked Helen, her offsider not so much even when he was my neighbour in Ohope. At least she did what she promised to do unlike many others to this day.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Nowhere near it.

Disagree unsurprisingly, and if i get time after work I'll highlight why. As a starter, neoliberalism is a hard right economic doctrine. National are fully neoliberal. I've mentioned before how far the frame of reference has swung that a party like National is considered centre ish. Labour have centre right politics in old money with some socialist tinges

 

[Rick O’Shay]

Disagree unsurprisingly, and if i get time after work I'll highlight why. As a starter, neoliberalism is a hard right economic doctrine. National are fully neoliberal. I've mentioned before how far the frame of reference has swung that a party like National is considered centre ish. Labour have centre right politics in old money with some socialist tinges

Look forward to it and don't confuse National with the Coalition.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Look forward to it and don't confuse National with the Coalition.

Oh believe me I'm not national is very similar to act, in fact act is what national wish the could be.

Winston and nzf are grifting opportunists going full blown cooker in parts