Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[miket12]

No idea. You tell me

In the south of France, they achieved a fusion reaction in December of last year. They‘re expecting to have a more controlled reaction by late 2015. It’s a while off before it makes anything near a commercial quantity but they‘ve calculated it would produce four times the energy of fission.

Also, scientists at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory have twice achieved a fusion reaction.

It is coming, it’s just a matter of when.

 

[Rick O’Shay]

While it may not be producing a commercial amount of power, when is the ITER expected to be finished?

Probably never.

The issue is that fusion is hard if not impossible to control. Once you light the fuse, stand way back.

The theory is sound though., like Green Hydrogen. Not in my lifetime.

 

[John Nick]

Yes we do have to import while exporting our own but there are good reasons for that.

The refinery, when it was built in 62-64 and then when it was upgraded during think big was designed for sour crude. At that time we had very little if not any oil locally. Only condensate which couldn't be processed here anyway.

When we had some oil discoveries here like Maui B, Maari and the Tui field but they were all sweet crude (top end of the refining process like condensate)and couldn't be handled here. Majority of our oil goes to Geelong on a monthly turnaround but it's not huge, around 600k barrels a month. I think we consume somewhere around 4-5 million barrels a month so you can see we were never going to add much even if we could refine our own. The refinery would have had to be rebuilt to handle both types of crude.

The refinery closure was all to do (what isn't?) with money. The plant was ageing and needed a very large amount of money spent on it even to continue to process sour. The changes to the RMA weren't helpful either.

Was a great opportunity for the govt to step in and show some vision but I'm thinking due to a lack of business understanding and a deep hatred of anything fossil they let it happen. Don't forget the Govt actually built and owned the refinery until after think big when it was given to a consortium of fuel companies. To be fair, not huge margins in refining and even Oz doesn't have that many left.

Rick I am interested to hear your thoughts about the affect the closure of the refinery has had on our roads and supplies of bitumen if any?

 

[borgy]

What are your thoughts on the last 6 years?

Very difficult to answer...but I'll give it a go... crucial events that went world wide like the Ch-ch shootings, White Island eruption damaged our reputation as a safe place to visit and put a dent into tourism Something that any Govt at the time didn't need.
It had enough on its plate with NZs initial issues but was forced to balance both.
Then of course the pandemic theres no need to elaborate we all experienced it.
If anything it exposed the world wide damage of neoliberal caused profit driven privatisation at the expense of social services where NZ too is a victim.
But I will add NZ has one of the most open market economies in the world and is very vulnerable to larger economies. In other words if the USA sneezes we get the flu..
So I suppose if the last 6 years is anything to go by the right Govt was in. It was elected before all this happened and by then the opposition was a complete cot case no good to anybody let alone lead us through that shit.
Sometimes people expect too much and want this and that forgetting the bigger picture happening around them.
It's time to be sheep now follow other countries and oust out the govts who led them through it. Both good or bad...

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

You’re like a broken record with this - here’s Massey universities media analysis (university level academic research). The vast majority of our reporters and media are left 60% vs right 12%. A clear media bias that only blindly left people would not acknowledge.

I’m proposing the value of that positive media coverage accumulating every day across the election cycle, massively surpasses the dollar value of donations to the right.



I hope Winston Peters becomes broadcasting minister because our media should be a lot more central.

 

[miket12]

Yes we do have to import while exporting our own but there are good reasons for that.

The refinery, when it was built in 62-64 and then when it was upgraded during think big was designed for sour crude. At that time we had very little if not any oil locally. Only condensate which couldn't be processed here anyway.

When we had some oil discoveries here like Maui B, Maari and the Tui field but they were all sweet crude (top end of the refining process like condensate)and couldn't be handled here. Majority of our oil goes to Geelong on a monthly turnaround but it's not huge, around 600k barrels a month. I think we consume somewhere around 4-5 million barrels a month so you can see we were never going to add much even if we could refine our own. The refinery would have had to be rebuilt to handle both types of crude.

The refinery closure was all to do (what isn't?) with money. The plant was ageing and needed a very large amount of money spent on it even to continue to process sour. The changes to the RMA weren't helpful either.

Was a great opportunity for the govt to step in and show some vision but I'm thinking due to a lack of business understanding and a deep hatred of anything fossil they let it happen. Don't forget the Govt actually built and owned the refinery until after think big when it was given to a consortium of fuel companies. To be fair, not huge margins in refining and even Oz doesn't have that many left.

Our first refinery was opened in Takanaki in the 1910's. Wouldn't they have known from that what type of oil we had in NZ or is the oil from the fields discovered between then and the opening of Marsden Point a different type?

 

[MrFrankWhite]

In the south of France, they achieved a fusion reaction in December of last year. They‘re expecting to have a more controlled reaction by late 2015. It’s a while off before it makes anything near a commercial quantity but they‘ve calculated it would produce four times the energy of fission.

I assume you mean 2025. Funny date that, was meant to be the start of the net zero transition.

Also, scientists at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory have twice achieved a fusion reaction.

It is coming, it’s just a matter of when.

Cool; meanwhile France and half of Canada decarbonized in 30 years and dropped their energy costs in the process, all while western environmentalists sucked their teeth in disapproval.

So you see, if Green and "environmentalists" had STFU we would ALREADY BE AT NET ZERO

 

[juju]

You’re like a broken record with this - here’s Massey universities media analysis (university level academic research). The vast majority of our reporters and media are left 60% vs right 12%. A clear media bias that only blindly left people would not acknowledge.

I’m proposing the value of that positive media coverage accumulating every day across the election cycle, massively surpasses the dollar value of donations to the right.

View attachment 2342

I hope Winston Peters becomes broadcasting minister because our media should be a lot more central.

Thats a post from a media pundit not from me.

You must be smart enough AT THE VERY LEAST to realise there is quite a massive difference between media coverage and the political leaning of journalists?

How about you show some workings on your fanciful proposal?

What were the workings/ controls for the Massey study?

 

[juju]

You’re like a broken record with this - here’s Massey universities media analysis (university level academic research). The vast majority of our reporters and media are left 60% vs right 12%. A clear media bias that only blindly left people would not acknowledge.

I’m proposing the value of that positive media coverage accumulating every day across the election cycle, massively surpasses the dollar value of donations to the right.

View attachment 2342

I hope Winston Peters becomes broadcasting minister because our media should be a lot more central.

Lol you dumb fuck.

This was a survey sent to 1200 journalist with a 29% response rate and no scientific controls.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

This was a survey sent to 1200 journalist with a 29% response rate and no scientific controls.

Lol… you’re discrediting academic research. 1200 would be every journalist in NZ.

Political polls of 1500 people out of 5m people voters gives an accurate representation. 30% is a massive sample size.

There no hope of overcoming your bias if you discredit academic research.

I give up - you’re smarter than those researchers bro. You don’t have any bias at all. Your university education supersedes them all. They must all be dumb fucks. Let’s all bow to the superior intellect of juju.

 

[miket12]

I assume you mean 2025. Funny date that, was meant to be the start of the net zero transition.

Cool; meanwhile France and half of Canada decarbonized in 30 years and dropped their energy costs in the process, all while western environmentalists sucked their teeth in disapproval.

So you see, if Green and "environmentalists" had STFU we would ALREADY BE AT NET ZERO

Sorry, did mean 2025.

It makes me laugh how people forget that nearly 70% of France's power comes from nuclear power plants.

I don't have a problem with nuclear power... I'd just embrace fusion if it becomes commercially viable.... especially in a country like NZ with it's earthquakes.

It would have been interesting if the plans for a nuclear power station by the Kaipara Harbour in the late 60's would have gone ahead. They think it would have supplied 80% of Auckland's power in 1990. Instead, they decided to dig coal out of the ground and burn it at the Huntly and Otara Stations.

 

[Rick O’Shay]

Rick I am interested to hear your thoughts about the affect the closure of the refinery has had on our roads and supplies of bitumen if any?

Bit of a saga JN. Shell were always the main supplier of Bitumen in NZ, either from manufacturing and storage at Marsden or direct importing. The fact they were a major, say controlling, shareholder in the Refining Company says it all regarding that monopoly.

Z took over the mantle when Shell sold out and they are now the principal importer and supplier. Read somewhere a while ago that the big Civil companies like Higgins and Fulton imported their own but was only as a backstop measure. Also, I think it was last year NZTA announced they were looking into being the major supplier of Bitumen but as far as I know nothing happened there.

Haven't heard anything about supply issues related to the Marsden closure but like any petroleum based product, the price fluctuates all over the place and that would have an effect on a roading contractor, especially on a fixed price. Have to be some hedging or a decent escalation clause. Covid and associated transport costs would have certainly driven the price up.

So to finally answer your question. Like the refined importation of fuels, I don't think there's much difference in overall cost (cost of refining production is cheaper over seas) for Bitumen with the refinery gone. As far as I know, the bitumen storage tanks are still up there and in use so supply can be maintained. The question then becomes one of quality of product and if the roads we have now are anything to go by, the product is crap.

Haven't looked to see if the Govt gets any excise or tax (other than GST) on Bitumen. It's a petroleum product so ????

 

[juju]

Lol… you’re discrediting academic research. 1200 would be every journalist in NZ.

Political polls of 1500 people out of 5m people voters gives an accurate representation. 30% is a massive sample size.

There no hope of overcoming your bias if you discredit academic research - I give up - you’re smarter than those researchers bro. You don’t have any bias at all.

Its 348 respondents who bothered to reply of 1200 contacted.

Go on - quantify in $ value how this exceed donations then? I need a laugh.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Sorry, did mean 2025.

It makes me laugh how people forget that nearly 70% of France's power comes from nuclear power plants.

I don't have a problem with nuclear power... I'd just embrace fusion if it becomes commercially viable.... especially in a country like NZ with it's earthquakes.

Ahh gotcha. Yes because that follows the energy density law. coal<oil<fission<fusion

But we are stalling at the fission part, which will stop us leaping to fusion.

 

[Rick O’Shay]

Our first refinery was opened in Takanaki in the 1910's. Wouldn't they have known from that what type of oil we had in NZ or is the oil from the fields discovered between then and the opening of Marsden Point a different type?

We wish. Every field is different and as I explained, our output of sweet is not sufficient to run a refinery. We could import sweet crude to mix and match with ours and run the refinery on that but you wouldn't want to pay for a litre of fuel. As I' explained sweet crude is top of the range and very expensive.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Its 348 respondents who bothered to reply of 1200 contacted.

Go on - quantify in $ value how this exceed donations then? I need a laugh.

Juju reposts a random online comment:

Thats a post from a media pundit not from me.

All care no responsibility

I post 100% more reputable academic research:

Prove its true; the data’s flawed; the sample size isn’t big enough; quantify the value; they are left wing but it wont affect their work.

Look at yourself mate and get a grip

 

[MrFrankWhite]

We wish. Every field is different and as I explained, our output of sweet is not sufficient to run a refinery. We could import sweet crude to mix and match with ours and run the refinery on that but you wouldn't want to pay for a litre of fuel. As I' explained sweet crude is top of the range and very expensive.

They should have used used the shallow water fields to fund exploration and technical know-how to purse the GSB and further east.

 

[juju]

Juju reposts a random online comment:

All care no responsibility

I post 100% more reputable academic research:

Prove its true; the data’s flawed; the sample size isn’t big enough; quantify the value; they are left wing but it wont affect their work.

Look at yourself mate and get a grip

No you said you "propose" the dollar value of bias media coverage is larger than party donations.

That is utterly fanciful. Idiotically so...

A random survey with 340 random respondents is not scientific - how many people replied from the Platform, NBR, ZB etc? Is that published
So yes the data is flawed. This is also a really tiny part of the overall study - you seems to have latched on to that like a desperate anti vaxxer would.

And yes you are a dumb fuck - how many posts have you talked about ranted about left wing media conspiracy and then posted anti Labour NZ Herald articles on here. Nutty.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

No you said you "propose" the dollar value of bias media coverage is larger than party donations.

That is utterly fanciful. Idiotically so...

A random survey with 340 random respondents is not scientific - how many people replied from the Platform, NBR, ZB etc? Is that published
So yes the data is flawed. This is also a really tiny part of the overall study - you seems to have latched on to that like a desperate anti vaxxer would.

And yes you are a dumb fuck - how many posts have you talked about ranted about left wing media conspiracy and then posted anti Labour NZ Herald articles on here. Nutty.

Wizard: “the sky is blue”

Juju: Prove it. Where’s the scientific research (that I won’t even accept). I think it’s green and red (but I won’t prove it). You’ve latched onto this like a nutcase (even though it was a small comment that I’ve latched onto…) if you don’t listen I will resort to personal insults!

Honestly, we all know the sky is blue. Sometimes it’s better to just accept it or shut up

 

[miket12]

And yes you are a dumb fuck - how many posts have you talked about ranted about left wing media conspiracy and then posted anti Labour NZ Herald articles on here. Nutty.

Honestly, we all know the sky is blue. Sometimes it’s better to just accept it or shut up

I accept you’re both nutty….. now, move on.