Speaking of Seymour and democracy, what countries MPβs have to film their own interviews to make sure the media doesnβt edit to an agenda? Outrageous stuff.
John Campbell ponders whether his interview is being βweaponisedβ; Act says itβs holding media to account and giving viewers the full picture.
Act leader and deputy prime minister
David Seymour has turned the camera on TVNZ broadcaster
John Campbell - with the politician using his own cameraman to film a recent interview in a tactical move to ensure media donβt βshape the narrativeβ.
The Act party has posted the full, unedited interview on its YouTube page and highlighted it in a renewed plea last week to raise funds to βhelp Act cut through the media spinβ.
But TVNZ has defended its position, saying it provided exactly what the Act party liked to see. It says it posted its own full and unedited footage of the interview on TVNZ+ before Actβs YouTube post, βallowing viewers to make up their own mindβ.
How the interview unfolded
Campbell interviewed Seymour in the Beehive Theatrette on May 20, 11 days before Seymour took up the reins as deputy prime minister.
The interview starts somewhat awkwardly, with Seymour walking in with his cameraman filming close behind.
The Act party leader says a quick βhowdyβ and βhow are youβ and then: βI gather you were surprised we accepted the interview. I gather you used the c-word, in reference to how we were supposed to regard you.β
Campbell: βI did not... I donβt think I did that.β
Seymour: βFair enough. Maybe it was a misunderstanding.β
A few seconds later, Campbell comes back to Seymourβs remarks. βWhat was that about? What was that little arrival about?β
Seymour: βWell, I was just surprised to hear from my staff that youβd said that word. I mean, I know youβve been surpassed more recently, but I just found it interesting.β
Campbell, referring to Seymourβs cameraman, says: βSo are you playing to Andy? Is that for social media?β
Seymour: βNo, no, no, no, Iβm not playing to anyone. I just wanted to ask you.β
Campbell said he might have taken a self-deprecating approach when requesting the interview, but he didnβt recall using the c-word.
A few minutes into the interview, Campbell came back to Seymourβs entrance.
Campbell described it as an βoddβ introduction - βit was a kind of bristling, slightly alpha way to arrive as opposed to saying βhello, how are youβ, and all of thatβ.
βIβm surprised that this is being kind of weaponised.β
Seymour: βNo, not at all, John... I was having a bit of banter.β
Seymour suggested Campbell had been βclearlyβ thrown by the introduction - an assertion the broadcaster rejected.
Eight minutes later, Campbell returns to the topic and the cameraman.
βLetβs talk about Andy over here. Hi Andy, nice to see you. Andy is rolling on this. This is presumably for David versus the media.β
Seymour says Act has a βduty to be open to peopleβ.
βWhat we found is that for years, people in the media abused the power to edit. I would build relationships with people, Iβd talk to people, Iβd give the best quotes I could, describing what we stood for, for our voters.
βAnd then I found at 6 oβclock, the media had abused the power to edit.β
Campbell explains the βtough businessβ of editing down what might be three or four seven-minute interviews with politicians into a two-minute story.
Seymour: βI donβt deny that youβve got a format where youβve got to crunch down. The question is, if youβre good at that, you accurately convey what the personβs trying to say.β
He says one of his skills has been to provide a soundbite βbecause I have toβ.
He told Campbell he was constantly asked during 35 recent street corner meetings about the problems with media.
He said his βDavid versus the Mediaβ series was about removing the power to edit.
The Deputy Prime Minister says Campbell is βone of our starsβ on Actβs YouTube channel - βitβs not a good thingβ.
βWeβre getting people who just want to see it raw and Iβm just saying the power to edit has been abused so many times...weβve taken that power away.β
Act fundraising plea
In an Act party newsletter on Thursday, Seymour used his filming of the Campbell interview as an example of him bypassing the media.
βHe seemed more upset that ACT brought our own camera than interested in our policies. Why?β wrote Seymour.
βBecause filming it ourselves meant they couldnβt control the edit. They couldnβt shape the narrative.β
Seymour said that βonce upon a time, it was a journalistβs job to report the newsβ.
βIncreasingly, it seems like theyβre trying to create it instead.
βThe days of reporting the facts and letting Kiwis make up their own minds are long gone.β
He said fewer people were now watching the 6pm TV news or listening to RNZβs
Morning Report.
Kiwis were turning in βever greater numbers to alternative media like social media, podcasts and YouTubeβ.
He made a plea for funds.
βEvery dollar you chip in means we reach even more Kiwis with unfiltered, uncensored content.
βThe impact you can have is powerful.
βFirst, it helps ACT spread our message on fixing the economy, easing the cost of living, restoring law and order, and standing up for equal rights.
βBut just as importantly, it puts pressure on the media.
βBy publishing full interviews, ACT is doing what many journalists refuse to do: showing the full story and trusting you to decide for yourself.β
Seymour - who has a long-running policy of not doing interviews with
Morning Report - also used the newsletter to have a dig at RNZ.
βAs more people tune out of the legacy media and turn to platforms like ours, the message is clear: Report the facts or lose your audience.
βAnd itβs working. Some journalists have started publishing uncut interviews and playing it straight. Others havenβt β and their viewership is plummeting. Thatβs the market working.
βBut taxpayer-funded media donβt get the message unless we send it to them. Thatβs why we delivered a significant funding cut to RNZ in this yearβs Budget.β
TVNZ responds
A TVNZ spokeswoman said Campbellβs interviews with Seymour and
Winston Peterswere made available at the same time - and in full - on TVNZ+, before an edited version at
1 News at Six.
These had been available for weeks, and in advance of the Act party posting its own footage, TVNZ said.
βJohn Campbell interviewed both Winston Peters and David Seymour on the deputy prime minister transition,β said a spokeswoman.
βBoth interviews were made available in full on TVNZ+ with excerpts on
1News.
βThe Act party say they are concerned about shaping of narratives, but weβve provided exactly what theyβd like to see - the full, unedited story, allowing viewers to make up their own mind.β
The TVNZ spokeswoman said
1News at Sixhad not seen any notable decline in audience.
βWeβre proud of our
1News at Six numbers. We reach nearly 1 million viewers every night. Our aim is to serve all New Zealanders irrespective of the party they vote for.β
Seymour hits back
Seymour said TVNZ was being βdelusionalβ if it believed its 6pm news numbers were not falling.
He suspected they were using some sort of cumulative number.
If it were true that theyβd actually grown the audience, βtheyβve got even more explaining to do while their revenue and their staff numbers have been falling.β
He said his wider point stood, regardless of TVNZβs protestations.
βItβs certainly true that they put the raw footage of the Campbell interview up prior to us releasing footage. They knew that we were going to release the footage. So they didnβt need to wait for us to put it up to change their behaviour.β
He said it was unusual to see raw footage of an interview posted in full. βI certainly canβt think of any other examples.β
Asked if he planned to film all of his media interviews, Seymour said: βWe donβt have a policy - we just do it when we think itβs worthwhile.
βI am frequently interviewed without anyone filming me, but we just find it sometimes worthwhile.
βI think, given the way that John behaved when he realised that he no longer had a monopoly on editing, I think tells you everything you need to know.
βCertainly, the way people are reacting to the YouTube version that was put up is pretty telling.β
As of Sunday morning, the YouTube video had around 80,000 views and almost 2000 comments.
Campbell asks if interview is 'weaponised'; Act says it's giving viewers the full picture.
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