That wily old fox is the mÄori Trump not Brian Tamaki, Bri's an amateurThe more I listen to everyone the more I think Winston makes the most sense!
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That wily old fox is the mÄori Trump not Brian Tamaki, Bri's an amateurThe more I listen to everyone the more I think Winston makes the most sense!
My point is, itās only constructive when itās an informed discussion. Especially when it's on something as significant as the Treaty.Discussion is always healthy, regardless of understanding of history. The belief that only certain people can discuss the treaty is actually one of the key drivers of this debate.
Seymour says the courts shouldnāt do it, that itās parliamentās role. People with a deep understanding of the treaty say āyour opinion doesnāt hold waterā so dont want to discuss it.
Opponents of the bill shouldnāt argue about the process not being inclusive if they actively discourage other members of society from even talking about the subject
The best way for people to educate is to actually thrash things out in a conversation. Itās NZs founding doc. It should be discussed so people can understand the otherās point of view and understand how our society works and sometimes doesnt
I remember back in the old days when men of the house wouldnāt discuss things with woman because they wouldnāt understand.My point is, itās only constructive when itās an informed discussion. Especially when it's on something as significant as the Treaty.
You think David Seymour and The Act Party are the right people to lead that conversation?Discussion is always healthy, regardless of understanding of history. The belief that only certain people can discuss the treaty is actually one of the key drivers of this debate.
Seymour says the courts shouldnāt do it, that itās parliamentās role. People with a deep understanding of the treaty say āyour opinion doesnāt hold waterā so dont want to discuss it.
Opponents of the bill shouldnāt argue about the process not being inclusive if they actively discourage other members of society from even talking about the subject
The best way for people to educate is to actually thrash things out in a conversation. Itās NZs founding doc. It should be discussed so people can understand the otherās point of view and understand how our society works and sometimes doesnt
Yip, men have always been stupid and never understood womenI remember back in the old days when men of the house wouldnāt discuss things with woman because they wouldnāt understand.![]()
As some on here have said if your not mÄori you donāt get a sayā¦I voted for Luxon but think heās being a pussy on the matter.
He had an opportunity to show some leadership and put it in the bin long ago but imo has failed the test miserably - 7*8=42 comes to mind!As some on here have said if your not mÄori you donāt get a sayā¦
Luxons staying out of it. Itās politically toxic.
Luxon should, but per my earlier comment, he is being a pussyYou think David Seymour and The Act Party are the right people to lead that conversation?
Muldoon met with Whina Coopers Hikoi on the steps of parliament did the first two minutes of his speech were in Te Reo.He had an opportunity to show some leadership and put it in the bin long ago but imo has failed the test miserably - 7*8=42 comes to mind!
Fair point, maybe my earlier post weren't very good. Iām not saying people canāt have an opinion. Itās about recognising that discussions on our constitutional framework need a baseline understanding. Experts in this space matter and they are being shut out.I remember back in the old days when men of the house wouldnāt discuss things with woman because they wouldnāt understand.![]()
I think the experts have had a say and itās the public/ media/ social media disseminating that information which has bypassed Seymour.Fair point, maybe my earlier post weren't very good. Iām not saying people canāt have an opinion. Itās about recognising that discussions on our constitutional framework need a baseline understanding. Experts in this space matter and they are being shut out.
Damn...My mind keeps going back to something I read about how the Treaty is often referenced in FTAs to ensure MÄori rights aren't overridden by international trade obligations. The "exception clause" acts as a safe guard from exploitative parts of FTAs. I imagine this is a massive hindrance to some multinationals.
I certainly think Seymour has misunderstood the mood of the country. But I also think he's playing the long game, with a strategy to further sideline National in 2026 over their lack of support for this bill.I think the experts have had a say and itās the public/ media/ social media disseminating that information which has bypassed Seymour.
I donāt think the historical context or the wording of the treaty or what the experts say is actually that important. I think the treaty has its power in what it mean to everyday mÄori as a living document and their willingness to back that with action.
What I mean is if mÄori werenāt willing to defend it then it would have slid into irrelevance and been legally superseded.I think your completely minimising the power of the Treaty in legal context. Its historical and legal significance is just as important as its meaning to MÄori as a living document.
No wonder the left cant pick political shifts. The chamber echoes loudly. You label any speech you disgree with an "ism" and then promptly ignore it. There's zero introspection as to why people feel that why.Discussion is healthy if you have an solid understanding of the treaty and the history, which sadly most NZers don't have.
Coming into the discussion from a place of ignorance isn't really helpful at all.
Edit: If the water cooler chat is encouraging people to investigate this more and read up on the history then yes, it may have done some good. But if all your getting is info from cherry-picked opinion pieces - I'm not sure that is helpful at all.
That's right Wiz, you don't hear Afghan women complaining do yaI remember back in the old days when men of the house wouldnāt discuss things with woman because they wouldnāt understand.![]()