Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

MaybeTop8 said:
For once, think before you say something.

Speed and lack of control kills. End of story. If you want to drive fast go and live in europe with straight roads and autobahns.

Take responsibility for what you're actually saying. This isn't a culture war issue it's simple physics.
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Fucking what? Okay if it’s simple physics please show your equation SI = D (death). The please give the SI value to give D = 1.

This is the brain dead NPC takes that stops human progress. If your argument was even remotely correct then kids wouldn’t be getting run over in driveways.

You’ve been fed a propaganda line for so long that you regurgitate it ad naseum without fact checking it.
 
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The keys are momentum being mass and velocity and then kinetic >stored>kinetic energy.
The death part is how that energy is absorbed. Which is why you can die crashing at 60km in an CRX but live crashing at 300kmh in an F1 car.
 
Juno said:
No such thing as car accidents., they're driver crashes. Stop kidding yourself.
And if you ever hurt one of mine by being a dumbf*** you'll wish you hadn't survived.

So, you have to drive a little slower? Pffft, poor you, King of the Road.
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Yawn.

I’ve been in exactly 3 accidents in my 41 years and over 1 million kms of driving and none of them were my fault.

The 2nd and 3rd were old white people who crashed into me from being incompetent drivers, do I have the right to get and bash them because they hurt my family?

Why do they get to own the road and delay everyone else? Then cause accidents and injury through incompetence? Talk about entitled.
 
MrFrankWhite said:
Yawn.

I’ve been in exactly 3 accidents in my 41 years and over 1 million kms of driving and none of them were my fault.

The 2nd and 3rd were old white people who crashed into me from being incompetent drivers, do I have the right to get and bash them because they hurt my family?

Why do they get to own the road and delay everyone else? Then cause accidents and injury through incompetence? Talk about entitled.
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Lol. I agree there, there comes a time or age when you're the hazard.
I'm talking about any drunk or doped out idiot that thinks its still ok to get behind a wheel. It is then a weapon. The car doesn't drive itself, you are the one responsible. You make those kind of choices and there are consequences beyond that.
I once did a couple of years stint doing road safety education for recidivist drink-drivers who lost their licences as part of an a& d programme where they had to pass all blood tests before they could get their licences back...**** me, what a bunch of deluded idiots.
I get that alcohol and substance addictions are a helluva burden if you are one of those who struggle and have a propensity for addiction in their genes, or whatever it is that afflicts them. But the reasoning is gone from a lot of them and you knew soon as the 6 weeks were done (if they made it that far) they were going to be back on the road again
so my last message to them was the one I gave above and I meant it. Their choice.
Doubt it made a difference and thank god I've never had to follow up
 
Juno said:
Lol. I agree there, there comes a time or age when you're the hazard.
I'm talking about any drunk or doped out idiot that thinks its still ok to get behind a wheel. It is then a weapon. The car doesn't drive itself, you are the one responsible. You make those kind of choices and there are consequences beyond that.
I once did a couple of years stint doing road safety education for recidivist drink-drivers who lost their licences as part of an a& d programme where they had to pass all blood tests before they could get their licences back...**** me, what a bunch of deluded idiots.
I get that alcohol and substance addictions are a helluva burden if you are one of those who struggle and have a propensity for addiction in their genes, or whatever it is that afflicts them. But the reasoning is gone from a lot of them and you knew soon as the 6 weeks were done (if they made it that far) they were going to be back on the road again
so my last message to them was the one I gave above and I meant it. Their choice.
Doubt it made a difference and thank god I've never had to follow up
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My point is there’s no practical difference between a fatality caused by a sober 55yr, and one caused by a drunk 22yr. Both operated machinery outside their capability, causing death.

The crazy thing is you on one hand are arguing about ultimate driver responsibility, but then restricting it to only impaired drivers. It’s ridiculously illogical.
 
MrFrankWhite said:
My point is there’s no practical difference between a fatality caused by a sober 55yr, and one caused by a drunk 22yr. Both operated machinery outside their capability, causing death.

The crazy thing is you on one hand are arguing about ultimate driver responsibility, but then restricting it to only impaired drivers. It’s ridiculously illogical.
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No, it was one example only.
Your first paragraph is right and my post another example of what can happen...outside of their capability covers the whole range, impairment being one of them.
Would I have a go at someone who wasn't impaired who caused a crash that hurt or killed a family member through stupidity or going beyond their capability? High probability. If it were one of mine who did that to someone else? Very high probability - they've been taught differently so no excuses.
Thats the problem with Kiwis and driving here, its an 'accident' and the inference is its noone's fault so the behaviour never changes and we continue to pull our hair out at the high death toll and maiming of people on our roads like its a mystery?
Reality is, as a country we accept it as something that just happens here.
Otherwise we'd try do something about it right? Like, I don't know, lower the road speed in high crash areas? Change the age and processes for getting a licence (and buying cars) in the first place?
Haven't got a clue mate, I just try to do the right thing myself on the road. Guess that's driver responsibility...
 
Juno said:
No, it was one example only.
Your first paragraph is right and my post another example of what can happen...outside of their capability covers the whole range, impairment being one of them.
Would I have a go at someone who wasn't impaired who caused a crash that hurt or killed a family member through stupidity or going beyond their capability? High probability. If it were one of mine who did that to someone else? Very high probability - they've been taught differently so no excuses.
Thats the problem with Kiwis and driving here, its an 'accident' and the inference is its noone's fault so the behaviour never changes and we continue to pull our hair out at the high death toll and maiming of people on our roads like its a mystery?
Reality is, as a country we accept it as something that just happens here.
Otherwise we'd try do something about it right? Like, I don't know, lower the road speed in high crash areas? Change the age and processes for getting a licence (and buying cars) in the first place?
Haven't got a clue mate, I just try to do the right thing myself on the road. Guess that's driver responsibility...
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That I can agree with.
 
MaybeTop8 said:
Speed and lack of control kills. End of story. If you want to drive fast go and live in europe with straight roads and autobahns..
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I’m not promoting speeding - think before you post mate.

I was replying to Franks post about all the money spent and not a single life saved.

I’m saying our efforts have been ineffective because they are aimed at the wrong area.

I would say lack of attention (drugs, alcohol, fatigue, etc) leads to the lack of control 95% of the time that kills. End of story.
 
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MrFrankWhite said:
Fucking what? Okay if it’s simple physics please show your equation SI = D (death). The please give the SI value to give D = 1.

This is the brain dead NPC takes that stops human progress. If your argument was even remotely correct then kids wouldn’t be getting run over in driveways.

You’ve been fed a propaganda line for so long that you regurgitate it ad naseum without fact checking it.
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I'm talking vehicles hitting people as well. Which has a much higher percentage of happening if the person is speeding.
 
MrFrankWhite said:
Nah that’s the speed injury curve which is the same as ballistics. Kinetic energy is velocity x mass. Vehicles have a constant mass so changes in velocity change the equation.

What we are looking for is the data that says for every X increase in speed, you have a Y chance of HITTING a pedestrian.
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Logically, you would think this wouldn't be the case as most times you are travelling at higher speeds would be in low pedestrian areas so I think you would be correct in saying that the chance of hitting pedestrians would be higher at lower speeds due to the higher concentration of pedestrians in lower speed areas.

I probably could have made that sentence more concise but I'm a little hungover.
 
MrFrankWhite said:
www.transport.govt.nz

Te Marutau — Ngā tatauranga ā-tau | Safety — Annual statistics

www.transport.govt.nz www.transport.govt.nz

I can’t find that data anywhere. Can you please link it? Especially considering international studies show most fatal, pedestrian accident happen under 40 miles an hour.
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A big metal object hits an unprotected person. There is a much better percentage of surviving at slower speeds.

Suburban areas have the most people. And the most cars driving under 40 miles per hour.

And what are you actually defending here? I don't honestly know, and it's game day.
 
Damo said:
Logically, you would think this wouldn't be the case as most times you are travelling at higher speeds would be in low pedestrian areas so I think you would be correct in saying that the chance of hitting pedestrians would be higher at lower speeds due to the higher concentration of pedestrians in lower speed areas.

I probably could have made that sentence more concise but I'm a little hungover.
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Exactly (not the hangover part)

The fundamental part of all of this: BIG METAL OBJECT HITS PERSON. LESS CHANCE OF DYING IF THE SPEED IS LOWER.
 
One of the really stupid changes recently has been the 30kph limit in CBD Auckland. You can’t even get up to 50 in the first place as there are lights, crossings, and buses parked everywhere and bus and cycle lanes forcing cars into single file traffic jams. Private cars are banned in Queen street.

So there was already a 30kph informal limit in place, just due to the heaving mess that the CBD has become
 
Damo said:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31176144/

View attachment 5346
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Speed is like safety barrier or seatbelts - prevents fatalities once you have an accident and are important.

But stop the inattention and you stop the accident from happening in the first place.

The road to zero safety improvements, lowering speed limits, speed barriers, heavy policing with speed cameras, etc haven’t worked according to the stats.

Put police doing heaps more drink driving and drug checkpoints and you will get more results.
 
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