Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[juju]

Just to be clear when the Green wanted to tax the hard working subset to pay for tax cuts for the middle class and now National want to increase the tax to the smoking subset to pay for tax cuts, is there a difference?

The hard workers contribute to society and smokers have negative effects on society…

I’m trying to understand the logic? Do we want to stop smokers by legislation force but don’t want to stop them by financial force?

Who wants to educate this dullard on the concept of social investment?

 

[Bay39er]

Just to be clear when the Green wanted to tax the hard working subset to pay for tax cuts for the middle class and now National want to increase the tax to the smoking subset to pay for tax cuts, is there a difference?

The hard workers contribute to society and smokers have negative effects on society…

I’m trying to understand the logic? Do we want to stop smokers by legislation force but don’t want to stop them by financial force?

 

[Noitall]

Actually I must admit the existing cold stuff doesn't work but yeah social cost 'n all

Alternatives have also been found for cooking methamphetamine and it obviously hasn’t had an impact on the market with more than ever available but also there has been plenty intercepted at the border in terms of pseudoephedrine with nearly all coming from china. Would probably lean towards keeping it how it is rather than create a situation for the chemist to have to make judgement on the person seeking the medication and potential fallout over that.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

The logic is why have tax cuts period... surely us and the rest of the world should of learnt by now... it just doesn't work... the private business sector never has or will solve any social problems ... a country is a society of people not a bunch of consumers...

The private sector contributes nothing - the government will solve everything…

Wow. The communists are really coming out of the woodwork. Can you give an example of a country with this utopian world view?

We just tried this in NZ with a very left government and all we got was increase crime, homelessness, poverty, worse health system, education system, etc

 

[defensivebomb]

The logic is why have tax cuts period...

well, if we can only increase taxes, but never cut them, we will end up with ever increasing taxes. The tax take has gone up significantly over the last 6 years

 

[juju]

well, if we can only increase taxes, but never cut them, we will end up with ever increasing taxes. The tax take has gone up significantly over the last 6 years

As drastically as corporate profits?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

View attachment 4546

First they came for the smokers and I kept quiet because I didn’t smoke.

Then they came for the cars and I kept quiet because I didn’t need to drive.

Then they came for my hamburgers and I kept quiet because I didn’t need to enjoy life..

Then they produced the facts that sex has a huge social cost and I realised this is heading to the universe 25 rat experiment and society is doomed…

 

[MaybeTop8]

The private sector contributes nothing - the government will solve everything…

Wow. The communists are really coming out of the woodwork. Can you give an example of a country with this utopian world view?

We just tried this in NZ with a very left government and all we got was increase crime, homelessness, poverty, worse health system, education system, etc

Of course it's not an either or situation as you hopefully know Wiz. But business just isn't interested unless there's a profit to be had, and even then they have to be paid handsomely. The market does not provide. We've lived it.

Covid? Needed government. Climate change? Needs government. Rundown healthcare? Needs a government not looking to sell everything off. Etc etc - both can co-exist, but scale eludes business, as does humanity.

 

[MaybeTop8]

well, if we can only increase taxes, but never cut them, we will end up with ever increasing taxes. The tax take has gone up significantly over the last 6 years

Proof?

And tax take is different to taxes going up, so a breakdown would be good.

 

[MaybeTop8]

The private sector contributes nothing - the government will solve everything…

Wow. The communists are really coming out of the woodwork. Can you give an example of a country with this utopian world view?

We just tried this in NZ with a very left government and all we got was increase crime, homelessness, poverty, worse health system, education system, etc

VERY LEFT???? Man you guys live in fantasy land. Labour is also neoliberal, just with a social conscience.

And please, stop talking about communism unless you grew up in china, vietnam, russia or north korea. And they're all dictatorships anyway.

 

[regenerated borg]

well, if we can only increase taxes, but never cut them, we will end up with ever increasing taxes. The tax take has gone up significantly over the last 6 years

I never said anything about increasing taxes to solve social problems, but don't be surprised if other forms of taxes or spending cuts are needed to fund these tax cuts ... but then the country should not go down the borrow, borrow, borrow avenue either... our poor kids and a few generations more have enough to pay back...

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Proof?

And tax take is different to taxes going up, so a breakdown would be good.

$103b to $155b last 6 years - massive increase well above inflation.

New Zealand Government Revenues

Government Revenues in New Zealand increased to 153011 NZD Million in 2023 from 141627 NZD Million in 2022. This page provides - New Zealand Government Revenues- actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news.

tradingeconomics.com

 

[MaybeTop8]

View attachment 4547$103b to $155b - massive increase well above inflation.

New Zealand Government Revenues

Government Revenues in New Zealand increased to 153011 NZD Million in 2023 from 141627 NZD Million in 2022. This page provides - New Zealand Government Revenues- actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news.

tradingeconomics.com

So where's the breakdown?

Which taxes have gone up?

What is revenue made up of?

HEY, MAYBE THE ECONOMY WASN'T SO BAD AFTER ALL!!!!!

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

So where's the breakdown?

Which taxes have gone up?

What is revenue made up of?

Do you have google?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

VERY LEFT???? Man you guys live in fantasy land. Labour is also neoliberal, just with a social conscience.

And please, stop talking about communism unless you grew up in china, vietnam, russia or north korea. And they're all dictatorships anyway.

So again which country is this example of your utopian world view?

How does it work in practice? How does it drive innovation and productivity? How does it meet the populaces needs?

I am seriously interested to find out. I question our current system myself but can’t find a better viable alternative that isn’t just theory.

 

[MaybeTop8]

So again which country is this example of your utopian world view?

How does it work in practice? How does it drive innovation and productivity? How does it meet the populaces needs?

You haven't replied to the fact that Nicola Willis stated she was using the non smoking legislation cuts to pay for the tax cut bribe.

I've said before I'm not against capitalism. Just the extreme, nasty pile of s__t called neoliberalism.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Do you have google?

I have a limited amount of time and energy and need to watch some cricket

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Your examples of Key and Luxon are prime examples of guys desperate to become PM. Nothing to do with improving the quality life for the people. Simple fact.

Luxon definitely, I’m not so sure about Key. They are quite different personalities & I think he was in it for more of the right reasons.

 

[John Nick]

Luxon definitely, I’m not so sure about Key. They are quite different personalities & I think he was in it for more of the right reasons.

Maybe early on but not towards the end.

 

[regenerated borg]

VERY LEFT???? Man you guys live in fantasy land. Labour is also neoliberal, just with a social conscience.

And please, stop talking about communism unless you grew up in china, vietnam, russia or north korea. And they're all dictatorships anyway.

Yeah mate in the 80s Rodger Douglas (Labour finance minister and future founder of the ACT party) started the neolib ball rolling. very left isn't it..

Anyway fast forward to 2019 covid exposed the complete damage neolibs did over the years to all the infrastructure people needed the most.. Even vaccines went to the highest bidder and poor countries had to either wait or miss out..