Current Affairs πŸŒ‘️ Weather / climate change

Isn’t it a good reason to be considering alternatives though and achieving acceptable emissions? And whether it’s a cause at all, blind freddy knows the storms are stronger and more frequent. Doesn’t it make sense to be preparing for them better with them causing more damage at a higher rate?
Yes it is, absolutely. However, dumb stuff like the OG ban and making wild statements like Keep it in the Ground doesn't help any debate on how to successfully transition to a higher percentage of renewables.

Cheap energy has since the 1800's, and still will, fuel growth. Make it more expensive and drop availability and economies decline

I'm a great fan of dams and Geothermal, wind farms and solar not so much. Geo has huge potential for us and using processes like the Ormat Binary stations makes a lot of sense.

There is good debate to be had without all the histrionics
 
Yes it is, absolutely. However, dumb stuff like the OG ban and making wild statements like Keep it in the Ground doesn't help any debate on how to successfully transition to a higher percentage of renewables.

Cheap energy has since the 1800's, and still will, fuel growth. Make it more expensive and drop availability and economies decline

I'm a great fan of dams and Geothermal, wind farms and solar not so much. Geo has huge potential for us and using processes like the Ormat Binary stations makes a lot of sense.

There is good debate to be had without all the histrionics
Cheap, sustainable, reliable energy has been the cornerstone of successful economies and countries, particularly in the Global market we are in, supporting everything from industrial activity to household welfare.
 
Yes it is, absolutely. However, dumb stuff like the OG ban and making wild statements like Keep it in the Ground doesn't help any debate on how to successfully transition to a higher percentage of renewables.

Cheap energy has since the 1800's, and still will, fuel growth. Make it more expensive and drop availability and economies decline

I'm a great fan of dams and Geothermal, wind farms and solar not so much. Geo has huge potential for us and using processes like the Ormat Binary stations makes a lot of sense.

There is good debate to be had without all the histrionics
It's one of the worst looming crisis in a global poly crises. There's an intellectual disconnect by calling the need for a response and action to address histrionics
 
And you're a liar in these forums who consistently trolls.

It's not a debate if it's fiction
I haven’t been in this thread for days, your personal attacking others today mate.

It’s always everyone else aye…

Notice most people debate facts and opinions, they don’t criticise the person for thinking differently.
 
It's one of the worst looming crisis in a global poly crises. There's an intellectual disconnect by calling the need for a response and action to address histrionics
One of the major problems with wind and solar (NSG or non-synchronous generation) is that the technology is still to be produced that will allow more than between 65 - 75% of a countries entire power needs to be produced by NSG before energy inertia causes disruption to power supply. NZ is in a really good position that, even when the lakes are dry, we still require around 30% of our generation to be from fossil fuels. This means that, if we were able to increase our solar and wind generation from around 10% now to 40%, we wouldn't have the low inertia issues a number of other countries are facing.... such as the large-scale power disruptions in Spain.

In some countries, the wholesalers of the power cut back how much power they receive from NSG plants in order to protect their systems when there's too much power being produced by NSG.

A study in Great Britain discovered that without extra mitigation (including tech which doesn't exist at the moment), the most power that they could generate with NSG was 65%. The Irish EirGrid/SONI study caps their current NSG capacity at 65% but they're updating their system which will allow up to 75%. A Texas Study (ERCOT) said theoretical modelling could allow up to 90% NSG capacity but would require a complete upgrade of the power systems including tech that doesn't exist yet.
 
I'm sure the climate deniers, anti science folk on here, who all seem to not coincidentally align with the right will have something to say

View attachment 17058

View attachment 17059

🧠 1. What the article is saying (in plain terms)​


The piece argues two main things:


  1. A major climate tipping point may be approaching
    Specifically, the possible collapse of the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC), a system that regulates climate.
    • Some newer research suggests the risk could be much higher and sooner than previously thought
    • A collapse could trigger major disruptions (cooling in Europe, sea-level rise, food system impacts)
  2. This risk is being downplayed or ignored
    Monbiot claims:
    • Economic models and political systems minimise worst-case climate risks
    • Wealthy elites (β€œbillionaire death cult”) shape policy and media narratives
    • As a result, society isn’t treating the threat as an existential crisis



✍️ 2. Strengths of the article​


a) Grounded in real scientific concern
The AMOC is a legitimate area of active research. Even mainstream assessments agree it is weakening and could have major consequences if it collapses .
So the core topic is not fringe or invented.


b) Raises an important communication issue
There is a real debate about whether:


  • climate risks are under-communicated
  • economic models underestimate extreme outcomes

That’s a valid and important critique.


c) Engaging and persuasive writing
Monbiot is very effective rhetorically:


  • vivid language
  • strong framing (β€œexistential crisis”)
  • clear moral stance

It’s designed to provoke urgencyβ€”and it succeeds.




⚠️ 3. Weaknesses / limitations​


a) It’s an opinion piece, not neutral reporting
This is crucial. The article blends:


  • science
  • interpretation
  • political argument

You shouldn’t read it as a balanced summary of evidenceβ€”it’s advocacy.




b) Selective use of uncertainty
The article leans heavily toward worst-case interpretations.


But the broader scientific consensus still says:


  • AMOC weakening is likely
  • full collapse this century is uncertain or lower probability (though debated)

So the piece arguably:


  • amplifies the most alarming interpretations
  • underplays uncertainty and disagreement



c) The β€œbillionaire death cult” framing is rhetorical, not analytical
This is where the article becomes more ideological than evidence-based.


There are legitimate critiques of:


  • fossil fuel influence
  • economic modelling (e.g., cost–benefit approaches)

But the article:


  • uses emotionally charged language
  • doesn’t deeply prove the causal link between elites and underreporting

It’s persuasiveβ€”but not rigorously argued in that section.




d) Conflates different levels of risk


There’s a subtle but important leap:


  • From β€œserious, potentially catastrophic risk”
  • To β€œimminent existential crisis”

In risk analysis terms, those are very different claims.




🧭 4. Overall assessment​


  • Accuracy (science): Moderate to good, but selective
  • Balance: Low (strongly one-sided)
  • Persuasiveness: Very high
  • Usefulness: Good for raising awareness, not for forming a complete view

Think of it as:
πŸ‘‰ A warning siren, not a full map of the terrain.




🧩 5. How to read it critically​


If you want to get the most out of it:


  • Take the risk seriously, but not literally at face value
  • Separate:
    • the science claim (AMOC risk)
    • from the political argument (elite suppression)
  • Cross-check with:
    • IPCC-style assessments
    • other scientists (not just opinion writers)



🧠 Bottom line​


The article is not β€œwrong”, but it is deliberately alarmist and argumentative.
It highlights a real and important riskβ€”but presents it in the most dramatic and politically charged way possible.


This chat thingie is fantastic. I must use it more often
 

🧠 1. What the article is saying (in plain terms)​


The piece argues two main things:


  1. A major climate tipping point may be approaching
    Specifically, the possible collapse of the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC), a system that regulates climate.
    • Some newer research suggests the risk could be much higher and sooner than previously thought
    • A collapse could trigger major disruptions (cooling in Europe, sea-level rise, food system impacts)
  2. This risk is being downplayed or ignored
    Monbiot claims:
    • Economic models and political systems minimise worst-case climate risks
    • Wealthy elites (β€œbillionaire death cult”) shape policy and media narratives
    • As a result, society isn’t treating the threat as an existential crisis



✍️ 2. Strengths of the article​


a) Grounded in real scientific concern
The AMOC is a legitimate area of active research. Even mainstream assessments agree it is weakening and could have major consequences if it collapses .
So the core topic is not fringe or invented.


b) Raises an important communication issue
There is a real debate about whether:


  • climate risks are under-communicated
  • economic models underestimate extreme outcomes

That’s a valid and important critique.


c) Engaging and persuasive writing
Monbiot is very effective rhetorically:


  • vivid language
  • strong framing (β€œexistential crisis”)
  • clear moral stance

It’s designed to provoke urgencyβ€”and it succeeds.




⚠️ 3. Weaknesses / limitations​


a) It’s an opinion piece, not neutral reporting
This is crucial. The article blends:


  • science
  • interpretation
  • political argument

You shouldn’t read it as a balanced summary of evidenceβ€”it’s advocacy.




b) Selective use of uncertainty
The article leans heavily toward worst-case interpretations.


But the broader scientific consensus still says:


  • AMOC weakening is likely
  • full collapse this century is uncertain or lower probability (though debated)

So the piece arguably:


  • amplifies the most alarming interpretations
  • underplays uncertainty and disagreement



c) The β€œbillionaire death cult” framing is rhetorical, not analytical
This is where the article becomes more ideological than evidence-based.


There are legitimate critiques of:


  • fossil fuel influence
  • economic modelling (e.g., cost–benefit approaches)

But the article:


  • uses emotionally charged language
  • doesn’t deeply prove the causal link between elites and underreporting

It’s persuasiveβ€”but not rigorously argued in that section.




d) Conflates different levels of risk


There’s a subtle but important leap:


  • From β€œserious, potentially catastrophic risk”
  • To β€œimminent existential crisis”

In risk analysis terms, those are very different claims.




🧭 4. Overall assessment​


  • Accuracy (science): Moderate to good, but selective
  • Balance: Low (strongly one-sided)
  • Persuasiveness: Very high
  • Usefulness: Good for raising awareness, not for forming a complete view

Think of it as:
πŸ‘‰ A warning siren, not a full map of the terrain.




🧩 5. How to read it critically​


If you want to get the most out of it:


  • Take the risk seriously, but not literally at face value
  • Separate:
    • the science claim (AMOC risk)
    • from the political argument (elite suppression)
  • Cross-check with:
    • IPCC-style assessments
    • other scientists (not just opinion writers)



🧠 Bottom line​


The article is not β€œwrong”, but it is deliberately alarmist and argumentative.
It highlights a real and important riskβ€”but presents it in the most dramatic and politically charged way possible.


This chat thingie is fantastic. I must use it more often
That chat thingy is brought to you by the Billionaire death cultisits.

Tongue in cheek but true lol.

Yes the AI is fantastic, even with all its flaws I have used to a lot to tease out tricky health stuff (but I have the advantage of training in health so I can critically analyze the AI recommendations whereas I would not recommend the lay person doing what I do - unless like me they are hard wired to defer to their Doctors and Pharmacists opinion as a safety valve - that might sound over stated, it is not, use AI for health by all means but NEVER take its advice over a quack eh, if you don't like the Quacks opinion go see another).

Back to Billionaire death cults, it is a great catch all slang, I love it, for the personality disordered Execs and Poli's that basically don't give a shit about what comes after they kark it.

We seem to be headed for the perfect storm. Climate issues impacting on food supply, global transport issues/supply chain, and the reliance on the straight of Hormuz for a large chunk of the worlds fertilizer.


And then there is a Debt crisis. There will be lots of other stuff that matters which I am not listing, political instability being a thing that is particularly harmful to any notion of a global response to the coming climate crisis.

We are gonna run out of food bottom line if things keep going the way they are.
 
Climate issues impacting on food supply
Why do people keep repeating this lie? We are on track for yet more global record harvests. We are producing more food than ever, with less effort and human labor than ever.

Data Scientist Hannah Ritchie
 
That chat thingy is brought to you by the Billionaire death cultisits.

Tongue in cheek but true lol.

Yes the AI is fantastic, even with all its flaws I have used to a lot to tease out tricky health stuff (but I have the advantage of training in health so I can critically analyze the AI recommendations whereas I would not recommend the lay person doing what I do - unless like me they are hard wired to defer to their Doctors and Pharmacists opinion as a safety valve - that might sound over stated, it is not, use AI for health by all means but NEVER take its advice over a quack eh, if you don't like the Quacks opinion go see another).

Back to Billionaire death cults, it is a great catch all slang, I love it, for the personality disordered Execs and Poli's that basically don't give a shit about what comes after they kark it.

We seem to be headed for the perfect storm. Climate issues impacting on food supply, global transport issues/supply chain, and the reliance on the straight of Hormuz for a large chunk of the worlds fertilizer.


And then there is a Debt crisis. There will be lots of other stuff that matters which I am not listing, political instability being a thing that is particularly harmful to any notion of a global response to the coming climate crisis.

We are gonna run out of food bottom line if things keep going the way they are.
Running out of superphosphate more likely and dangerous than running out of foodfood here Dave.
 
Why do people keep repeating this lie? We are on track for yet more global record harvests. We are producing more food than ever, with less effort and human labor than ever.

Data Scientist Hannah Ritchie
It's not a lie if you're in the real world. It is if you thrive on lies and disinformation. Shoe fits you Frank.
 
Running out of superphosphate more likely and dangerous than running out of foodfood here Dave.
Yeah I meant we as in all of us.

Not good for pastoralists tho eh bro?

Still here in NZ there will always be something to eat till the millions of boat people show up eh. I will head up Coro to me bros farm I guess if shit gets real, you are in a good spot by the sounds.
 
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