Current Affairs 🌡️ Weather / climate change

MaybeTop8 said:
Amazing how these "establishment" institutions like banks and insurance companies are in full acknowledgement of man made climate change and the crises we're facing as a species, given it directly dents their profits.

Good to see science confirmed by greed, if nothing else.

Pity about the rest of the deniers, but they'll come around. Or not.

www.rnz.co.nz

Commerce Commission dismisses Federated Farmers complaint on net-zero banking

The complaint alleged five banks were co-ordinating their agricultural lending with Net-Zero Banking Alliance strategies.
www.rnz.co.nz www.rnz.co.nz
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yeah, screw up those darn food producers we don't need them, meanwhile let's loan money to manufacturers of cluster munitions. if you get your moral guidance from banks you have serious problems.
 

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StellarWhisper said:
Maybe banks aren't the moral compass, but if they’re running from climate risk, it’s probably not just PR. They don’t like losing money.
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Not really….it became a regulatory obligation for banks in NZ to show how they are addressing climate change from how the banks deal with business customers. So, if you were going to a bank to get a business loan, the bank wants to see a report/information on how your business is reducing its carbon footprint both with actions you’ve done in the past and proposed future action.

There was talk about from the Greens of even extending it to private individuals applying for personal loans, credit cards or mortgages but it was decided that was going too far. Imagine the uproar having your home loan application refused even though you had the deposit and the income to service the loan but your car wasn’t efficient enough or the house had a wood burning fireplace or wasn’t double glazed or for other reasons.

Earn enough points and you’ll get the business loan, don’t get enough points, and you’ll end up paying a higher interest rate or even have the loan not approved.

It’s not that the banks are a moral compass or that they’re doing it because of a loss of money but to comply with the climate related disclosures requirements.

Oh, and for those who think that insurance companies are 100% acknowledging climate change in NZ by looking at not insuring certain properties… think again. The climate related disclosures requirements isn’t just aimed at banks and building societies but also at insurers meaning they now have to be more discerning about offering insurance cover.

They’re also answerable to their underwriters…. if the underwriter decides someone or some property has a potential risk which is too high, they’ll refuse to underwrite the policy.

Unfortunately, it’s not so much banks and insurers accepting climate change as it is following the previous governments law about climate change disclosure. Their own stance doesn’t matter, it’s what’s required of them if they want to do business in NZ.

Mandatory climate-related disclosures | Ministry of Business, Innovation & Employment

The Financial Sector (Climate-related Disclosures and Other Matters) Amendment Act 2021 makes climate-related disclosures mandatory for some organisations. The requirement will apply to large publicly listed companies and large insurers, banks, non-bank deposit takers and investment managers.
www.mbie.govt.nz www.mbie.govt.nz
 
MaybeTop8 said:
Great news
newsroom.co.nz

World's highest court sends shot across bow of NZ's climate policy

The International Court of Justice's finding that granting fossil fuel exploration licences could breach international law casts a shadow over the Govt's oil and gas plans.
newsroom.co.nz newsroom.co.nz
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Is it April fools day?

What a joke thinking that sovereign nations can’t grant a license to explore their own resources.

The COULD gives it all away. I can’t read it but there will be all sorts of context - eg you need to offset emissions.
 
Gummy bear said:
Yes a joke, Chinese are busy using slave labour, constructing God knows how many coal fired power stations every month and these dorks tell NZ we are breaching human rights if we search for gas to keep our hospitals and schools running.
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The very bad joke is the disinformation from the right and the far right that's allowed the oil and gas lobby to maintain it's dominance of lies and destruction in our very fragile world, while at the same time shutting down all attempts to progress to renewable technologies.
 
MaybeTop8 said:
The very bad joke is the disinformation from the right and the far right that's allowed the oil and gas lobby to maintain it's dominance of lies and destruction in our very fragile world, while at the same time shutting down all attempts to progress to renewable technologies.
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What part is disinformation?
The Chinese using slave labour? The Chinese building coal fired power stations?

The "energy transition" is the disinformation.
Your pathetic wind generation was operating at 7% of its installed capacity on Monday Morning, this week, causing spot power prices to surge to over $2000/MWh.
As Feynman said "For a successful technology reality must take preference over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled".
Thanks, in part, to the Huntly Rankines NZ were able to keep the lights on in our schools and Hospitals.

Oh, and I am not a far right political activist, in fact, I think all our politicians morons so I don't even vote.
I am an engineer, I deal in facts.
 
Gummy bear said:
What part is disinformation?
The Chinese using slave labour? The Chinese building coal fired power stations?

The "energy transition" is the disinformation.
Your pathetic wind generation was operating at 7% of its installed capacity on Monday Morning, this week, causing spot power prices to surge to over $2000/MWh.
As Feynman said "For a successful technology reality must take preference over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled".
Thanks, in part, to the Huntly Rankines NZ were able to keep the lights on in our schools and Hospitals.

Oh, and I am not a far right political activist, in fact, I think all our politicians morons so I don't even vote.
I am an engineer, I deal in facts.
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You believe in facts, then you believe in science as the basis of factual understanding, especially if you're an engineer. That's great. That means you have a clear understanding of how man made consumption of resources and the resultant pollution has accelerated climate change to the point of dangerous shifts in our ecology, environment and climate. And that these shifts, caused by the accelerated man made climate changes are an existential threat to humanity and our existence on this planet.

Your clear thinking means you must be aware of how much Big OIl and it's related industries have suppressed any attempts to move towards different technologies to maintain their wealth extraction and dominance through brute force and corruption.

And you may be aware of their influence in the peddling of disinformation and lies to protect that position.

And I'm sure you'll be aware of the ability to influence right leaning governments through many means, as evidenced with this far right government in New Zealand, especially Act and New Zealand first.

Good to hear that Gummy Bear.
 
MaybeTop8 said:
You believe in facts, then you believe in science as the basis of factual understanding, especially if you're an engineer. That's great. That means you have a clear understanding of how man made consumption of resources and the resultant pollution has accelerated climate change to the point of dangerous shifts in our ecology, environment and climate. And that these shifts, caused by the accelerated man made climate changes are an existential threat to humanity and our existence on this planet.

Your clear thinking means you must be aware of how much Big OIl and it's related industries have suppressed any attempts to move towards different technologies to maintain their wealth extraction and dominance through brute force and corruption.

And you may be aware of their influence in the peddling of disinformation and lies to protect that position.

And I'm sure you'll be aware of the ability to influence right leaning governments through many means, as evidenced with this far right government in New Zealand, especially Act and New Zealand first.

Good to hear that Gummy Bear.
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"Science is belief in the ignorance of experts" - Feynman again.
Do I believe in Science? No. I believe in the scientific method. Sadly that method was the first casualty of the climate movement.

Regarding resource consumption, yes, I agree. Do you know which countries have the best cared for natural environments? It is the rich countries, ie the countries with cheap reliable energy supplies.

When cars arrived did the makers of buggy whips do what they could to resist them? Yes, but they failed because cars were a better idea than horses.
When desktops computers arrived did the world's typing pools complain loud and long? Yes, but they failed to stop computer proliferation because PCs were a better idea.
Are the Oil companies doing what they can to stop wind and solar? Possibly, I don't work in that industry so I don't know, but if they are succeeding it is not because they are powerful. They are succeeding because Wind and solar are not a better idea. The energy they produce is higher cost and unreliable. They have a comparitivey short operational life and create wastes that can not presently be recycled.

Do wind and solar have a place in NZ's energy strategy? Certainly. I am a strong advocate to Ross Ashby's (cyberneticist) theory of Requisite Variety. But it would be suicidal to shut down our thermal stations until we have cheeper and more reliable generation to replace them. And there rests the challenge for the climate movement. Come up with a better idea, you know, an energy technology that does not shut down on still, cold mornings. Then we will see how good the oil folks are at resisting a technology advance.
 
Gummy bear said:
"Science is belief in the ignorance of experts" - Feynman again.
Do I believe in Science? No. I believe in the scientific method. Sadly that method was the first casualty of the climate movement.

Regarding resource consumption, yes, I agree. Do you know which countries have the best cared for natural environments? It is the rich countries, ie the countries with cheap reliable energy supplies.

When cars arrived did the makers of buggy whips do what they could to resist them? Yes, but they failed because cars were a better idea than horses.
When desktops computers arrived did the world's typing pools complain loud and long? Yes, but they failed to stop computer proliferation because PCs were a better idea.
Are the Oil companies doing what they can to stop wind and solar? Possibly, I don't work in that industry so I don't know, but if they are succeeding it is not because they are powerful. They are succeeding because Wind and solar are not a better idea. The energy they produce is higher cost and unreliable. They have a comparitivey short operational life and create wastes that can not presently be recycled.

Do wind and solar have a place in NZ's energy strategy? Certainly. I am a strong advocate to Ross Ashby's (cyberneticist) theory of Requisite Variety. But it would be suicidal to shut down our thermal stations until we have cheeper and more reliable generation to replace them. And there rests the challenge for the climate movement. Come up with a better idea, you know, an energy technology that does not shut down on still, cold mornings. Then we will see how good the oil folks are at resisting a technology advance.
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You're incorrect on the Oil and gas industry lobby. It's extremely powerful and has been successful in diversion, lies and shutting down moves to other forms of energy generation away from fossil fuels around the world. Not to mention doing untold harm to our very fragile ecosystems.

I think fundamentally people of certain lifestyles, and I include myself in this, don't really want to think that their bubble is in danger of being disrupted by external change, unwanted or not. It's easier to deny the problems and put the blame elsewhere, and politicians and an extremely organised right, corporate right and many groups of extremists are well aware of this.

I've never suggested shutting down current forms.

Why do you suggest wind and solar are not a better idea, especially given fossil fuels are finite. That should be obvious to everyone except antivaxxers, flatearthers and climate science denialists.

And are they really a higher cost? There's always a tipping point where things become cheaper and more reliable e.g. with storage and production. Why isn't every new build being mandated with solar panels to feed back into the grid?

Fair point on the recycling, I don't know anywhere near enough to comment on that.
 
Gummy bear said:
What part is disinformation?
The Chinese using slave labour? The Chinese building coal fired power stations?

The "energy transition" is the disinformation.
Your pathetic wind generation was operating at 7% of its installed capacity on Monday Morning, this week, causing spot power prices to surge to over $2000/MWh.
As Feynman said "For a successful technology reality must take preference over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled".
Thanks, in part, to the Huntly Rankines NZ were able to keep the lights on in our schools and Hospitals.

Oh, and I am not a far right political activist, in fact, I think all our politicians morons so I don't even vote.
I am an engineer, I deal in facts.
Click to expand...
Leftists eyes go vacant when you start discussing capacity factor.
 
Gummy bear said:
Come up with a better idea, you know, an energy technology that does not shut down on still, cold mornings. Then we will see how good the oil folks are at resisting a technology advance.
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We found it, but those same anti-fossil fuel activists blocked that too. We could be nearly at fusion if we had more readily adopted fission.
 
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