Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[sup42]

Where’s the dodgy party?
Nzf
Act
Nats
?

Perfect Storm.

A confluence of corrupt personalities in Seymour and Peters.

Luxon should have fought the tobacco thing to the death as the major party leader and really our only protection against the twin psychopaths.

I had hopes for Luxon.

He is weak.

We all know this should never be allowed to stand.

I hope people protest this cancer policy to the brink of Civil war (I say with more gusto than literally).

 

[kos]

Perfect Storm.

A confluence of corrupt personalities in Seymour and Peters.

Luxon should have fought the tobacco thing to the death as the major party leader and really our only protection against the twin psychopaths.

I had hopes for Luxon.

He is weak.

We all know this should never be allowed to stand.

I hope people protest this to the brink of Civil war.

You answered what I suspected
The whole sector of political parties in Nz are currently flawed

But I hope we are not dropping into a corrupt type regime

 

[juju]

Are you slightly retarded, you're forever rewriting history

Its particularly dimwitted in one post to say the 2017 coalition agreement was never released - then in the next post say he's reading it.

Also to be looking back at a 2017 coalition agreement and not acknowledge the impact covid had globally is idiotic

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

To clarify - the 2017 coalition agreement was a 8 page list of priorities and goals.

It was never the full agreement as Peters has referred to several times.

See below the requests for coalition documents that were withheld and never made public.

Request for document related to coalition negotiations between Labour and New Zealand First

Two complaints were received under the Official Information Act 1982 (OIA), about the decision by the Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern, not to release certain information relating to the coalition negotiations between the Labour Party and New Z

www.ombudsman.parliament.nz

 

[Bay39er]

To clarify - the 2017 coalition agreement was a 8 page list of priorities and goals.

It was never the full agreement as Peters has referred to several times.

See below the requests for coalition documents that were withheld and never made public.

Request for document related to coalition negotiations between Labour and New Zealand First

Two complaints were received under the Official Information Act 1982 (OIA), about the decision by the Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern, not to release certain information relating to the coalition negotiations between the Labour Party and New Z

www.ombudsman.parliament.nz

Wiz, details of the negotiations and the actual outcome of those negotiations are two different things

If you read the Coalition Agreement between Nats and NZFirst it too refers to the parties priorities

 

[defensivebomb]

Ok. Here goes. I voted for this group and while I am not a fan of the repeal of the tobacco legislation, I am not completely against it either.

Here are the reasons:

1. I don’t believe the “generational” ban of not selling tobacco products to people born after 2009 was ever going to stop smoking for good, for exactly the same reasons that banning weed doesn’t stop people smoking weed either.

2. Continuing the legalised selling of nicotine products has the same “de-powering the gangs” merits as legalising marijuana. If you are pro legalising weed, then you should also be pro the continued sale of nicotine to people born after 2009.

3. Dairies, petrol stations etc depend on the sale of nicotine products. If you are anti-big business, and tell people you love supporting small retailers, then the repeal of this legislation should sit well with you. The current legislation limits sales to only large, approved retailers.

So yeah. Great if smoking went away and we could all reap the benefits of a health system that isn’t strained. Is that realistic?

 

[sup42]

Ok. Here goes. I voted for this group and while I am not a fan of the repeal of the tobacco legislation, I am not completely against it either.

Here are the reasons:

1. I don’t believe the “generational” ban of not selling tobacco products to people born after 2009 was ever going to stop smoking for good, for exactly the same reasons that banning weed doesn’t stop people smoking weed either.

2. Continuing the legalised selling of nicotine products has the same “de-powering the gangs” merits as legalising marijuana. If you are pro legalising weed, then you should also be pro the continued sale of nicotine to people born after 2009.

3. Dairies, petrol stations etc depend on the sale of nicotine products. If you are anti-big business, and tell people you love supporting small retailers, then the repeal of this legislation should sit well with you. The current legislation limits sales to only large, approved retailers.

So yeah. Great if smoking went away and we could all reap the benefits of a health system that isn’t strained. Is that realistic?

The Marijuana argument and tobacco are not remotely comparable.

Smoking rates are at their lowest ever in NZ thanks to the regulation and prohibitive pricing.

Marijuana use is growing.

You can enjoy daily Marijuana use with one session a day, and that is enough for most people, apart from heavy users, cigarettes are a habit that needs top ups every few minutes / hours which clearly makes it very insidious, since seeing people smoking in public is a great trigger for those trying not to smoke to fail.

It also influences young people, seeing smoking everywhere, which is why Big Tobacco spent billions on advertising and smoking in movies, painting Ferrari's Marlborough Red etc.

As to your last point about is it realistic to have better health care outcomes....ahh well we are....we live in that world right now...or at least we did until these idiots came along and decided to sell their souls to Satan and put at risk the current status of all time lowest smoking rates in this countries history.

As for Shops needing the business, that is just insane, if you cannot sustain a business without selling legalized poisonous toxins then you shouldn't be in business.

A pack a day smoker is paying three hundred and fifty a week to smoke on Tailor mades, you can buy an ounce of bush weed, and two thirds of an ounce of skunk for that.

 

[defensivebomb]

Smoking rates are at their lowest ever in NZ thanks to the regulation and prohibitive pricing.

They are repealing legislation that was passed in 2023. If we have low rates currently, it is more reflective of changing attitudes to smoking. Drinking is similar

As for Shops needing the business, that is just insane, if you cannot sustain a business without selling legalized poisonous toxins then you shouldn't be in business.

I’d be ok with halting new retailers. But try telling your opinion to your local dairy owner that has been smashed every which way over the last 3 years

 

[defensivebomb]

The Marijuana argument and tobacco are not remotely comparable.
You can enjoy daily Marijuana use with one session a day, and that is enough for most people, apart from heavy users, cigarettes are a habit that needs top ups every few minutes / hours which clearly makes it very insidious, since seeing people smoking in public is a great trigger for those trying not to smoke to fail.

Who else benefits from the sale of marijuana currently? Is it completely harm free, from a community and health aspect? Would you be in favour of legalising it?

I’m on the fence on what the new govt is doing, but the opposition to the smoking changes is shortsighted

 

[Inruin]

They are repealing legislation that was passed in 2023. If we have low rates currently, it is more reflective of changing attitudes to smoking.

People have moved to and started vaping. We have successfully moved the problem from one product to another and probably ended up with more people involved than we have for a very long time. People up in arms about repealing these laws have been very silent about the scourge that vaping has become over the last period of time. The previous government finally, after pressure, like a well regarded school principle breaking down over the harm it's doing to our society and our kids, has introduced in the last few months some much needed law to help with this. This new coalition government is going to go further.

 

[sup42]

Who else benefits from the sale of marijuana currently? Is it completely harm free, from a community and health aspect? Would you be in favour of legalising it?

I’m on the fence on what the new govt is doing, but the opposition to the smoking changes is shortsighted

Have you ever been addicted to smoking cigarettes?

 

[kos]

Who else benefits from the sale of marijuana currently? Is it completely harm free, from a community and health aspect? Would you be in favour of legalising it?

I’m on the fence on what the new govt is doing, but the opposition to the smoking changes is shortsighted

I am against legalising marijuana
Reason
These people drive cars and many faculties are affected.

Some dairies stop selling tobacco product as it encourages criminals to steal and pillage their store.

Vapes are now found to be significantly bad for health too but you can see some users dig the cool factor.

 

[kos]

Have you ever been addicted to smoking cigarettes?

Yes.
Gave up cold turkey at 26 when I started coughing up blood.

 

[sup42]

People have moved to and started vaping. We have successfully moved the problem from one product to another and probably ended up with more people involved than we have for a very long time. People up in arms about repealing these laws have been very silent about the scourge that vaping has become over the last period of time. The previous government finally, after pressure, like a well regarded school principle breaking down over the harm it's doing to our society and our kids, has introduced in the last few months some much needed law to help with this. This new coalition government is going to go further.

Bullshit.

There is no comparison between the harms of smoking vs Vaping, both are not ideal but smoking is many times worse than Vaping.

Just because Vaping is imperfect doesn't make an argument for cigarettes.

Vaping laws need tweaking, I.D checking is an issue with online sales. Obvious answer is to ban online sales to customers who have not provided in person identification checks in store with passwords to access online stores.

Teens will experiment with everything, It is still preferable to have kids hooked on Vaping to tobacco. That is not an argument.

No one here is being silent on the ills of Vaping. It is a separate stream in an overall argument about addiction and illicit substances.

 

[sup42]

Yes.
Gave up cold turkey at 26 when I started coughing up blood.

So you are informed on the topic.

Only Ex smokers really know the full picture about Tobacco addiction. Yet many arm chair faux tobacco experts wade in on these discussions without a clue about how extremely addictive fags are, worse than Crack to get off.

 

[juju]

People have moved to and started vaping. We have successfully moved the problem from one product to another and probably ended up with more people involved than we have for a very long time. People up in arms about repealing these laws have been very silent about the scourge that vaping has become over the last period of time. The previous government finally, after pressure, like a well regarded school principle breaking down over the harm it's doing to our society and our kids, has introduced in the last few months some much needed law to help with this. This new coalition government is going to go further.

Lol the mental gymnastics being applied by you idiots on here.

We've already had numerous health organisations coming out and say this is a terrible from a health perspective. I'm sure you're qualified to know better

The truth is - we have a party whose MP previous jobs were Tabacco Lobbyist & a Minister of Finance who says we need the tax revenue for tax cuts.

FYI: The Act party actually opposed stricter laws on vaping mere months ago.

 

[kos]

Lol the mental gymnastics being applied by you idiots on here.

We've already had numerous health organisations coming out and say this is a terrible from a health perspective. I'm sure you're qualified to know better

The truth is - we have a party whose MP previous jobs were Tabacco Lobbyist & a Minister of Finance who says we need the tax revenue for tax cuts.

FYI: The Act party actually opposed stricter laws on vaping mere months ago.

Holy crap
An act mp was a big tobacco lobbyist?
Gee the Minister of Finance sounds a dimwit
Won’t the extra consumption lead to additional pressure on the health system.
What’s that? Years away so it doesn’t matter.

 

[Inruin]

They are repealing legislation that was passed in 2023. If we have low rates currently, it is more reflective of changing attitudes to smoking.

It's a nonsense argument that repealing a law that was only just introduced that bans anyone born after 2009, so 13 and 14 year olds currently, and having it at over 18's only is going to encourage anyone to start smoking. Smoking is at an all time low. Vaping has taken over, it's this generation's cool thing and is the major issue that needs addressing.

 

[Inruin]

The ACT party actually opposed stricter laws on vaping mere months ago.

The Coalition agreement doesn't say that. Lucky we have Winston and Luxon isn't it

 

[juju]

It's a nonsense argument that repealing a law that was only just introduced that bans anyone born after 2009, so 13 and 14 year olds currently, and having it at over 18's only is going to encourage anyone to start smoking. Smoking is at an all time low. Vaping has taken over, it's this generation's cool thing and is the major issue that needs addressing.

Any explanation why none of the 3 parties actually campaigned on this?