Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[Worried2Death]

But I wouldn’t rush to praise the current Government for too much. The general view is they’ve been pretty poor at engaging with industries & only really got off their arse a few months ago. Luxon & Willis are useless.

Who's doing good work in the coalition, anyone?

 

[MaybeTop8]

Well, let's not forget the ferry fiasco that's costing us hundreds of millions more that it would have, if not billions.

Minister promises ferry overhaul will cost less than $2 billion

Winston Peters has announced he's secured a fixed price deal for two new ferries, which will come into service in 2029.

www.rnz.co.nz

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2511/S00041/on-the-ferries-fiasco-soft-power-and-gaza.htm

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Are we talking cartels and corruption on a grand scale

No

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Well, let's not forget the ferry fiasco that's costing us hundreds of millions more that it would have, if not billions.

View attachment 15007

Minister promises ferry overhaul will cost less than $2 billion

Winston Peters has announced he's secured a fixed price deal for two new ferries, which will come into service in 2029.

www.rnz.co.nz

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2511/S00041/on-the-ferries-fiasco-soft-power-and-gaza.htm

Labour $4b vs Peters $1.8b.

The $4b figure is drawn from a Treasury report to the previous government in July 2023 (as per attached article), not mere consultants. It’s official budget figures, just like Peters is currently quoting, comparing apples with apples.

Don’t get desperate. Stay out of rabbit holes mate, that try to reinvent the facts in your favour.

Only you can take a deal that saves us billions and come to a warped conclusion that it’s costing us millions…

Own goal? Govt sets new $4b goalpost for ferries

This new Number of the Day is based on 42 very, very costly words in an 18-month old Treasury report, and some 'spotty' costings out of China and Korea, writes Jonathan Milne.

newsroom.co.nz

 

[MaybeTop8]

It appears the previous poster didn't read the article, or if they did are cherry picking to basically make shit up. No surprises there.

 

[John Nick]

Labour $4b vs Peters $1.8b.

The $4b figure is drawn from a Treasury report to the previous government in July 2023 (as per attached article), not mere consultants. It’s official budget figures, just like Peters is currently quoting, comparing apples with apples.

Don’t get desperate. Stay out of rabbit holes mate, that try to reinvent the facts in your favour.

Only you can take a deal that saves us billions and come to a warped conclusion that it’s costing us millions…

Own goal? Govt sets new $4b goalpost for ferries

This new Number of the Day is based on 42 very, very costly words in an 18-month old Treasury report, and some 'spotty' costings out of China and Korea, writes Jonathan Milne.

newsroom.co.nz

Tbf the final cost of the port side structure is still not clear and the building tenders are yet to be called for. Winston said himself that if contractors cannot meet their prices he will look for others that can make the target and so on until he finds a contractor that can

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Labour $4b vs Peters $1.8b.

The $4b figure is drawn from a Treasury report to the previous government in July 2023 (as per attached article), not mere consultants. It’s official budget figures, just like Peters is currently quoting, comparing apples with apples.

Don’t get desperate. Stay out of rabbit holes mate, that try to reinvent the facts in your favour.

Only you can take a deal that saves us billions and come to a warped conclusion that it’s costing us millions…

Own goal? Govt sets new $4b goalpost for ferries

This new Number of the Day is based on 42 very, very costly words in an 18-month old Treasury report, and some 'spotty' costings out of China and Korea, writes Jonathan Milne.

newsroom.co.nz

Interesting article - it reads like the author went into it very much wanting to take down the Government’s decision to cancel the project however ended up having to agree with the decision. Clearly the cost blowout trajectory was horrendous and only going to get worse.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Tbf the final cost of the port side structure is still not clear and the building tenders are yet to be called for. Winston said himself that if contractors cannot meet their prices he will look for others that can make the target and so on until he finds a contractor that can

Sound like how all good business people do. Get quotes and if it’s to expensive change the specs until you can get in budget.

To be clear I think this, like all projects will balloon but nowhere near the last project, that hadn’t even started and would also have ballooned.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

It appears the previous poster didn't read the article, or if they did are cherry picking to basically make shit up. No surprises there.

Like where it says:

‘Peters' shonky figures also do not include the daily costs and inconvenience of delaying the arrival of the new ferries from early 2026 and 2029. A service delayed is a service denied, and it comes with a price tag.’

We still have existing ferry’s operating and providing the service - we’re literally missing out on nothing and there’s no price tag or cost!

That source can’t be taken seriously (well, at least by those that use their brain and analyse what they are fed).

 

[John Nick]

Sound like how all good business people do. Get quotes and if it’s to expensive change the specs until you can get in budget.

To be clear I think this, like all projects will balloon but nowhere near the last project, that hadn’t even started and would also have ballooned.

Only time will tell. My worry is in future costs will blow out due to the cost
cutting . Things like ocean going tow enabled tugs are just the beginning.
Add to that the fact that we already have with berthing issues and damage with the current infrastructure. This causes ongoing costs as the berthing facilities are not ideal. We are going to carry on using them. Mechanical and weather and tides affect the day to day operations

 

[MaybeTop8]

Like where it says:

‘Peters' shonky figures also do not include the daily costs and inconvenience of delaying the arrival of the new ferries from early 2026 and 2029. A service delayed is a service denied, and it comes with a price tag.’

We still have existing ferry’s operating and providing the service - we’re literally missing out on nothing and there’s no price tag or cost!

That source can’t be taken seriously (well, at least by those that use their brain and analyse what they are fed).

Please, recidivist liar from Tauranga, post your journalistic credentials, including your 40 + years of experience and examples of your factual output that have enhanced new zealanders lives through many renowned and respected publications.

I look forward to viewing such factual journalism.

And please do engage your arguments with Gordon Campbell, who is the author of the article. I look forward to seeing your ferocious intellectuality on display.

 

[Lord Gnome of Mooloolaba]

Like where it says:

‘Peters' shonky figures also do not include the daily costs and inconvenience of delaying the arrival of the new ferries from early 2026 and 2029. A service delayed is a service denied, and it comes with a price tag.’

We still have existing ferry’s operating and providing the service - we’re literally missing out on nothing and there’s no price tag or cost!

That source can’t be taken seriously (well, at least by those that use their brain and analyse what they are fed).

I worked on this project and can tell that that the current costs, including the cancellation costs for 3 contractors and the ship builders, is way more than the $4b the previous scheme had blown out to and it will provide inferior ferries and inferior port side facilities.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

I worked on this project and can tell that that the current costs, including the cancellation costs for 3 contractors and the ship builders, is way more than the $4b the previous scheme had blown out to and it will provide inferior ferries and inferior port side facilities.

Geez you’re full of shit.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Geez you’re full of shit.

You just can't admit you're utterly wrong on huge amounts of this stuff. Resorting to personal attacks seems to be your m.o. lately.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

You just can't admit you're utterly wrong on huge amounts of this stuff. Resorting to personal attacks seems to be your m.o. lately.

Go over his posts - according to him he’s claimed he’s worked on nearly every major recent infrastructure project this country has embarked on (load of shit)…except he has no involvement in this replacement project, in part I assume because he’s not even living in NZ, and therefore it’s not possible he has insight beyond every major stakeholder in NZ on potential cost blowouts. The industry leaders don’t currently know whether this is the right solution, they hope it is, and they think it’s superior to the huge cost of Labour’s project, but there’s uncertainty. No one can categorically state anything on final costs.

As for personal attacks, read your last post to Wiz.

 

[John Nick]

Go over his posts - according to him he’s claimed he’s worked on nearly every major recent infrastructure project this country has embarked on (load of shit)…except he has no involvement in this replacement project, in part I assume because he’s not even living in NZ, and therefore it’s not possible he has insight beyond every major stakeholder in NZ on potential cost blowouts. The industry leaders don’t currently know whether this is the right solution, they hope it is, and they think it’s superior to the huge cost of Labour’s project, but there’s uncertainty. No one can categorically state anything on final costs.

As for personal attacks, read your last post to Wiz.

Agree with you about the uncertainty of the costs except for Winston proclaiming how he is saving the taxpayers (millions) before prices are known

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Agree with you about the uncertainty of the costs except for Winston proclaiming how he is saying the taxpayers (millions).

Yeah but again who knows - Winston probably shouldn’t be making those claims at this point… but he’s a politician right, that’s what they do. But I haven’t heard anyone from the industry say they expect costs will blowout anywhere near what was projected under Labours plan - have you?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Please, recidivist liar from Tauranga, post your journalistic credentials, including your 40 + years of experience and examples of your factual output that have enhanced new zealanders lives through many renowned and respected publications.

I look forward to viewing such factual journalism.

And please do engage your arguments with Gordon Campbell, who is the author of the article. I look forward to seeing your ferocious intellectuality on display.

You don’t need to be a journalist to know when rubbish is posted by any journalist, as my last post outlined or the one where it’s treasury data passed off as consultants.

Quote Campbells business experience that would make him better suited to analysing business decisions than me

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

But I haven’t heard anyone from the industry say they expect costs will blowout anywhere near what was projected under Labours plan - have you?

MT8 has said it…

 

[MaybeTop8]

Go over his posts - according to him he’s claimed he’s worked on nearly every major recent infrastructure project this country has embarked on (load of shit)…except he has no involvement in this replacement project, in part I assume because he’s not even living in NZ, and therefore it’s not possible he has insight beyond every major stakeholder in NZ on potential cost blowouts. The industry leaders don’t currently know whether this is the right solution, they hope it is, and they think it’s superior to the huge cost of Labour’s project, but there’s uncertainty. No one can categorically state anything on final costs.

As for personal attacks, read your last post to Wiz.

Yep fair enough, except that person consistently makes shit up constantly. So I'm calling him on it. Constantly.