Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

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Mr. Brownstone said:
Generalising hate? What on earth are you on about?
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Well, you're clearly not happy with public servants. This has been a focal point of the right generally along the lines of "troughing", "sucking at the public tit", "why should my taxpayer dollars", "grifting" etc and fill many a talkback/x tweet/conspiracy/far right chatroom. In other words it's a trope, a stereotype, and in my opinion a myth.

And rather than deal in gross generalisations reinforcing said stereotypes, it might help to actually address your complaints, for example finding out why a program of change went off the rails? I'm certain it will be complex, for similar reasons probably as to why large private complex transition programs also go off the rails. - poor design, badly scoped outcomes, political interests, private interests, bad up front requirements, badly sized, underestimated, coarse detailed, poor management, pressure on delivery rather than quality etc etc etc.

I'm certain that the approximately 10000 public servants who have lost their jobs under this current government (in spite of creative accounting from this government) https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/562350/how-many-public-sector-jobs-have-really-been-axed @wizard of Tauranga didn't ask to be fired. I've got no doubt most if not all are skilled, intelligent lovely people who do what they do very well. I'm also certain they didn't come to work every day and go "Awesome! How much can I trough today? That'll show those nasty right wingers! How much of their tax dollars can I rake in today! AHHH HAHAHAHAHA FOOLS!!!!". (Wiz on the other hand, that sounds like something he'd do, but hey)

I'm certain those people, and they are people, are suffering with families to provide for, mortgages to pay and their own mental health to be concerned about, as this current government slashes and burns then turns around and puts the screws on the same people they've made unemployed.

I'm certain most of those jobs would have provided value and in fact have been a huge loss, except that that loss isn't quantified, nor is it in this current government's interests to quantify it. And the effect will pop up in a service that's no longer there, or your rates bill, or your power bill or something you go to ask for and it's no longer available. And you'll continue to blame the very same public service that could have provided more benefit, except it was chopped off at the knees before it could walk.

And, especially and, given the last 50 years of neoliberalist economic entrenchment - surely, surely, surely, some of the blame has to sit there.

Especially the pogrom being wrought by Seymour/National to dismantle our democracy and shrink the government. Which represents the people when it's not being corrupted by the far right authoritarian conservatives we have in power right now.

So the next time someone has a go at the public service on zb, or here, or whereever, the answer is it's not what you think, in spite of your echo chamber. As always it's complex and this government are appalling. Disclaimer: I added those last five words
 

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MaybeTop8 said:
Well, you're clearly not happy with public servants. This has been a focal point of the right generally along the lines of "troughing", "sucking at the public tit", "why should my taxpayer dollars", "grifting" etc and fill many a talkback/x tweet/conspiracy/far right chatroom. In other words it's a trope, a stereotype, and in my opinion a myth.

And rather than deal in gross generalisations reinforcing said stereotypes, it might help to actually address your complaints, for example finding out why a program of change went off the rails? I'm certain it will be complex, for similar reasons probably as to why large private complex transition programs also go off the rails. - poor design, badly scoped outcomes, political interests, private interests, bad up front requirements, badly sized, underestimated, coarse detailed, poor management, pressure on delivery rather than quality etc etc etc.

I'm certain that the approximately 10000 public servants who have lost their jobs under this current government (in spite of creative accounting from this government) https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/562350/how-many-public-sector-jobs-have-really-been-axed @wizard of Tauranga didn't ask to be fired. I've got no doubt most if not all are skilled, intelligent lovely people who do what they do very well. I'm also certain they didn't come to work every day and go "Awesome! How much can I trough today? That'll show those nasty right wingers! How much of their tax dollars can I rake in today! AHHH HAHAHAHAHA FOOLS!!!!". (Wiz on the other hand, that sounds like something he'd do, but hey)

I'm certain those people, and they are people, are suffering with families to provide for, mortgages to pay and their own mental health to be concerned about, as this current government slashes and burns then turns around and puts the screws on the same people they've made unemployed.

I'm certain most of those jobs would have provided value and in fact have been a huge loss, except that that loss isn't quantified, nor is it in this current government's interests to quantify it. And the effect will pop up in a service that's no longer there, or your rates bill, or your power bill or something you go to ask for and it's no longer available. And you'll continue to blame the very same public service that could have provided more benefit, except it was chopped off at the knees before it could walk.

And, especially and, given the last 50 years of neoliberalist economic entrenchment - surely, surely, surely, some of the blame has to sit there.

Especially the pogrom being wrought by Seymour/National to dismantle our democracy and shrink the government. Which represents the people when it's not being corrupted by the far right authoritarian conservatives we have in power right now.

So the next time someone has a go at the public service on zb, or here, or whereever, the answer is it's not what you think, in spite of your echo chamber. As always it's complex and this government are appalling. Disclaimer: I added those last five words
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I’m not going to read all of that because you’re clearly off on a tangent that is not connected at all to my point. You post about inflation, net migration, productivity etc. One key way to improve those problems is to employ people in a way that maximises their value add to our economy. Doing so inefficiently - for example growing the number of public servants at 4.9% compound over 6 consecutive years under Labour - is not the solution. That takes people away from where they are needed - where skilled labour shortages exist - & puts them where they aren’t needed. That leads directly to inflation & poor productivity & because it is all paid for by tax revenue, it takes away from where funding is required far more urgently - for example all the social funding shortfalls that you rightly carry on about.
 
Mr. Brownstone said:
So long as it’s unproductive former public servants exiting New Zealand then it’s a great outcome.
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Unfortunately not. It’s educated taxpayers and ratepayers and graduates, being replaced by low wage earners. Hopefully I’m wrong and this leads to more GDP growth, but it seems the goal of this government (with comment from John Key is to get the interest rates low enough to spur the housing market into action again). We need knowledge economies not more primary exports. But we will see.
 
MaybeTop8 said:
Meanwhile we march towards authoritarianism - the so called free speech libertarians, turns out they favour shutting down true free speech.

newsroom.co.nz

Planned terrorism law overhaul 'slippery slope to authoritarianism'

With closed-door consultations taking place on NZ's terror laws, there are concerns the Government could follow the lead of others and crack down on legitimate protest
newsroom.co.nz newsroom.co.nz
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to be fair, the only cracking down on protestors in recent times was Trevor Mallard ignoring police advice a few years ago. We've had protests since, but he's been the only politician that's actually abused his powers to quell a protest
 
Mr. Brownstone said:
I’m not going to read all of that because you’re clearly off on a tangent that is not connected at all to my point. You post about inflation, net migration, productivity etc. One key way to improve those problems is to employ people in a way that maximises their value add to our economy. Doing so inefficiently - for example growing the number of public servants at 4.9% compound over 6 consecutive years under Labour - is not the solution. That takes people away from where they are needed - where skilled labour shortages exist - & puts them where they aren’t needed. That leads directly to inflation & poor productivity & because it is all paid for by tax revenue, it takes away from where funding is required far more urgently - for example all the social funding shortfalls that you rightly carry on about.
Click to expand...
Well, do have a read, it's really not a tangent. Because that's part of the problem here too, not caring about complexities and resorting to easy stereotypes and denigration when the answer isn't simple at all. And that answer may well be something that doesn't fit inside your own world view.

And yes I try and apply that logic to my world view as well.
 
defensivebomb said:
to be fair, the only cracking down on protestors in recent times was Trevor Mallard ignoring police advice a few years ago. We've had protests since, but he's been the only politician that's actually abused his powers to quell a protest
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Mallard is a duckwit. (geddit)

But we should all be alarmed about what is happening in secret. Criminalisation of protest is happening at pace around the world.
 
MaybeTop8 said:
Well, do have a read, it's really not a tangent. Because that's part of the problem here too, not caring about complexities and resorting to easy stereotypes and denigration when the answer isn't simple at all. And that answer may well be something that doesn't fit inside your own world view.

And yes I try and apply that logic to my world view as well.
Click to expand...
I’ve got nothing against public servants - but I do strongly disagree with the idea of inefficient employment. They’re just the example I used, however they’re also probably the most obvious one. However I’m sure there is dead wood throughout all our industries, just like there are skilled labour shortages in many areas of our economy as well. And if this comes across as a little insensitive then I really don’t care.
 
MaybeTop8 said:
Neither is Bernard Hickey


View: https://bsky.app/profile/bernardchickey.bsky.social/post/3luiyd6dftk27
Click to expand...

Except for the fact that his whole premise about stagflation is wrong..... for there to be stagflation, GDP has to be falling... but it's not. The latest figures out from Stats NZ for Q1 says the economy grow by 0.8%.... Q2 aren't due out until 18th September. Unless Hickey is a clairvoyant, he's only guessing what the GDP figure. And, sadly for him, most economist (including Treasury) are picking GDP to keep rising.

From page B3 / 7 of the attached Treasury Update:
Despite the slowing global outlook, conditions remain in place to support a pickup in domestic activity over 2025, underpinned by lower interest rates, high terms of trade, increasing net migration and house prices. GDP growth is expected to accelerate to 3.1% over the second half of 2026 before easing to 2.6% by the end of the forecast period. The unemployment rate is expected to peak at 5.4% over the first half of 2025, reflecting past weakness in real activity, before easing to 4.3% by the end of the forecast period. Inflationary pressures are forecast to remain contained, with slowing non-tradable inflation offsetting temporary tradable inflation in the near term.


Sorry, but Mr Hickey is wrong again!!!
 
miket12 said:
Except for the fact that his whole premise about stagflation is wrong..... for there to be stagflation, GDP has to be falling... but it's not. The latest figures out from Stats NZ for Q1 says the economy grow by 0.8%.... Q2 aren't due out until 18th September. Unless Hickey is a clairvoyant, he's only guessing what the GDP figure. And, sadly for him, most economist (including Treasury) are picking GDP to keep rising.

From page B3 / 7 of the attached Treasury Update:
Despite the slowing global outlook, conditions remain in place to support a pickup in domestic activity over 2025, underpinned by lower interest rates, high terms of trade, increasing net migration and house prices. GDP growth is expected to accelerate to 3.1% over the second half of 2026 before easing to 2.6% by the end of the forecast period. The unemployment rate is expected to peak at 5.4% over the first half of 2025, reflecting past weakness in real activity, before easing to 4.3% by the end of the forecast period. Inflationary pressures are forecast to remain contained, with slowing non-tradable inflation offsetting temporary tradable inflation in the near term.


Sorry, but Mr Hickey is wrong again!!!
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I'll politely disagree :) and am off to do some weed spraying. Not related.
 
Graph from your article (did you read it?)

The numbers have gone UP under National because while jobs have been disestablished, new roles have been created. Any roles that have gone are a minuscule amount in the big picture.

More fake news and disinformation and the govt has correctly called out RNZ in your very article.

B40733C6-184E-4DEF-B568-00061496597C.webp
 
wizard of Tauranga said:
Graph from your article (did you read it?)

The numbers have gone UP under National because while jobs have been disestablished, new roles have been created. Any roles that have gone are a minuscule amount in the big picture.

More fake news and disinformation and the govt has correctly called out RNZ in your very article.

View attachment 13876
Click to expand...
#stonewallingBlindRightWingCircleJerk
 
MaybeTop8 said:
Mallard is a duckwit. (geddit)

But we should all be alarmed about what is happening in secret. Criminalisation of protest is happening at pace around the world.
Click to expand...
If you will remember Brian Tamaki was arrested protesting; Peters was trespassed from parliament, protesters were required to apply for council consents to protest and traffic management plans, etc were used as a cost to stifle protests. The Wellington protests use of never seen before police force, the banning of media and politicians from the Wellington protest, etc.

All under Ardern’s watch as political enemies were picked on and attempted to be silenced.

3rd world banana republic stuff from a true authoritarian govt - and the worst PM in our history.
 
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wizard of Tauranga said:
If you will remember Brian Tamaki was arrested protesting; Peters was trespassed from parliament, protesters were required to apply for council consents to protest and traffic management plans, etc were used as a cost to stifle protests. The Wellington protests use of never seen before police force, the banning of media and politicians from the Wellington protest, etc.

All under Ardern’s watch as political enemies were picked on and attempted to be silenced.

3rd world banana republic stuff from a true authoritarian govt - and the worst PM in our history.
Click to expand...
Tbf Wiz the protestors were causing havoc with locals going about their daily activities and businesses
Also remember the harassment of school kids on the way to school
Two sides to everything
 
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