Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[wizard of Tauranga]

There has been a significant reconfiguring of society

Pro: Solo parenting; mass immigration, pro multi-ethnicity, mental health dealt with in the community, working mothers, etc.

All a significant change from ‘the good old days’ trying a social experiment that’s altered what worked well in the past.

Are we overall better off with these liberal individual rights, even though there’s high profile people that fall through the cracks?

All not really voted on either. Who’s behind this agenda @Worried2Death?

 

[Damo]

This kind of comment I really struggle with. Why do people make the jump from banning gang patches to there will be no crime? It's another tool to help target gangs which I think is great and we have already seen it being used for that purpose. According to the stats 25% of crime is done by the gangs so a huge amount by very few people. That does still leave 75% to tackle from the rest of the population and there will always be crime committed.

Was never a serious comment mate.

 

[Inruin]

Was never a serious comment mate.

Sorry, not solely directed towards you. I see that type of comment being made quite often and it makes no sense to me.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

We had how many changes of police minister under the last government and at least one of them was completely ineffective with an attitude of the police being too heavy handed leading to a number of instances where police were directed to observe and not to engage. Youth on justice facility roofs getting KFC to come down ffs. Add In the reducing prison numbers by not sending people to prison (about as good as Trumps if we don't test we have great COVID numbers). There is no doubt in my mind that the previous 6 years has contributed to this. And people commenting that it should all be fixed straight away because of some policy change aren't serious are they? It will take years to reverse but at least we have started.

I would love to be a fly on the wall with a left vs right politician as they parent their children

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Not sure if a few similar incidents are a pattern or just a wider decline into general lawlessness

I shit you not, I am reconsidering my stance on the bible. It seems that humanity as a whole needs pretty strong guard rails. Maybe we are starting to forget how many failed civilisations it took to even reach the time of Christianity.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

I’m not religious but kind of think some people need a higher power they respect to guide them on the right path.

As per my post above, I've nearly done a full 180 on the the church (esp orthodox) this year

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

As per my post above, I've nearly done a full 180 on the the church (esp orthodox) this year

I hate religion and the impact on individual rights. But it’s obvious some people lack the self control to thrive in modern society.

As I’ve said previously, I hate Destiny church and what it stands for but have witnessed first hand how it has changed lives because lost people NEED that parental type oversight and mentoring to save them from themselves.

A linked part not discussed yet is the rise in addiction - porn, gambling, drugs, etc, which is that same inability for self control/ manage.

 

[Damo]

As per my post above, I've nearly done a full 180 on the the church (esp orthodox) this year

Might not be PC to say but the difference in between crime statistics between Māori, European and Pacific Island communities is quite staggering. The latter obviously being heavily influenced by the church.

I can't stand going to church personally, but can see the benefits.


Māori make up 43.9% of court proceedings, European 35.6% and Pacific Islanders only 9.0%.

Proceedings (offender demographics)

New Zealand Police

www.police.govt.nz

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Might not be PC to say but the difference in between crime statistics between Māori and Pacific Island communities is quite staggering. The latter obviously being heavily influenced by the church.

I can't stand going to church personally, but can see the benefits.

View attachment 10724
Māori make up 43.9% of court proceedings, Pacific Islanders only 9.0%.

Proceedings (offender demographics)

New Zealand Police

www.police.govt.nz

Looks like we all need to become Buddhist’s (or whatever is the main Asian religion)

 

[MrFrankWhite]

I hate religion and the impact on individual rights. But it’s obvious some people lack the self control to thrive in modern society.

As I’ve said previously, I hate Destiny church and what it stands for but have witnessed first hand how it has changed lives because lost people NEED that parental type oversight and mentoring to save them from themselves.

A linked part not discussed yet is the rise in addiction - porn, gambling, drugs, etc, which is that same inability for self control/ manage.

Pretty much the same. My grandparents were heavily religious (Anglican) and so their boomer children ran 1000 miles from the church. However, objectively looking at, the ones that rejected the church the most, had the hardest lives. Poverty, drugs, children out of wedlock and suicide.

The things that culture idolise now, are the things the church actively warned against, as it turned out, for good reason. Even single motherhood which is held up as admirable, is objectively terrible for both children and society. The studies on outcomes for fatherless homes is a tragedy. ie. >75% of violent criminals etc

 

[dean]

Pretty much the same. My grandparents were heavily religious (Anglican) and so their boomer children ran 1000 miles from the church. However, objectively looking at, the ones that rejected the church the most, had the hardest lives. Poverty, drugs, children out of wedlock and suicide.

The things that culture idolise now, are the things the church actively warned against, as it turned out, for good reason. Even single motherhood which is held up as admirable, is objectively terrible for both children and society. The studies on outcomes for fatherless homes is a tragedy. ie. >75% of violent criminals etc

Spot on. Everyone needs faith and if you don't have faith in yourself you need it in something else.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Spot on. Everyone needs faith and if you don't have faith in yourself you need it in something else.

Deep man!

 

[Inruin]

Looks like we all need to become Buddhist’s (or whatever is the main Asian religion)

I think it highlights the need for direction and values. The majority of religions have commonality to them.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

*I even realised how bad porn is. 1.8million US 18-25 women have an OF account. There’s only 18milion of them. 10% of the young women in the US are prostitutes.
(Edited for clarity )

Wait until you look into abortion

 

[Inruin]

I even woke up to porn. 1.8million US 18-25 women have an OF account. There’s only 18milion of them. 10% of the young women in the US are prostitutes.

Wait until you look into abortion

I had to read that twice. Thought you must have also fallen asleep watching it.

 

[Inruin]

Pretty much the same. My grandparents were heavily religious (Anglican) and so their boomer children ran 1000 miles from the church. However, objectively looking at, the ones that rejected the church the most, had the hardest lives. Poverty, drugs, children out of wedlock and suicide.

The things that culture idolise now, are the things the church actively warned against, as it turned out, for good reason. Even single motherhood which is held up as admirable, is objectively terrible for both children and society. The studies on outcomes for fatherless homes is a tragedy. ie. >75% of violent criminals etc

I've been thinking about this and I think you are right. As much as some might see it as Draconian or ignorant or whatever, you had a multi layered approach instilling a values
system in the population. Now you have many children with no father figure, barely a mother, no moral or value guidance from anywhere.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

I've been thinking about this and I think you are right. As much as some might see it as Draconian or ignorant or whatever, you had a multi layered approach instilling a values and system in the population. Now you have many children with no father figure, barely a mother, no moral or value guidance from anywhere.

You have to look at in context. Pre internet, the bible was a how-to-guide to not fucking up your society. Every sin is simply undesirable behavior that left unchecked can lead to decay because of the nature of people.

I don’t really think each individual act in isolation is even that bad. But aggregated they lead to decline of your society.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Two major things lead to my reconsideration of the church this year.

1. The most common phrase in the bible is “Do Not Be Afraid” and I then I realised Jesus is the OG motivational speaker.

2. 25% of all pregnancies are aborted and not a single abortion has ever been needed to save a life woman’s life.

 

[dean]

2. 25% of all pregnancies are aborted and not a single abortion has ever been needed to save a life woman’s life.

That is a crazy statistic when birth control is so readily available, often free and can be taken well in advance of intercourse. It shows a gross lack of planning and ignorance.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

That is a crazy statistic when birth control is so readily available, often free and can be taken well in advance of intercourse. It shows a gross lack of planning and ignorance.

Yeah it’s insane. And every “healthcare” argument is actually false. Abortion is very specifically the termination of a healthy foetus meaning ectopic and other pregnancy complications aren’t even included because they aren’t “healthy”.

The abuse statistics are minuscule as well like less than 0.1%.

Then I read a chilling passage from an orthodox priest; “Elective abortion is simply child sacrifice”