General Your 2025 team

[BangBro's (still banging)]

What about this lineup?

1 R T Sheck
2 D W Zelezniak
3 C N Klokstad
4 A Leiataua
5 R Berry
6 L Metcalf
7 T Boyd
8 J F Harris
9 W Egan
10 M Barnett c
11 J Ford
12 K Capewell
13 T Harris

14 F Lussick
15 D Vaimauga
16 M Niukore
17 D Walker

 

[Barty]

I disagree with RTS at fullback. The game has changed from your fullback having high running metres (don't get me wrong they are nice!!) but to unlock the attack they must be able to ball play/pass etc. He simply cannot, and doesn't have the skillset to.

 

[Boats n Hoes]

I disagree with RTS at fullback. The game has changed from your fullback having high running metres (don't get me wrong they are nice!!) but to unlock the attack they must be able to ball play/pass etc. He simply cannot, and doesn't have the skillset to.

Problem is i dont know if Charnze is that much different?

He's probably a better ball player, based on 2023 form on the back of those SJ led shapes he was effective linking between SJ and DWZ. Problem was last season those shapes were worked out and it seemed pretty obvious there wasnt a lot of other strings to his bow.

Taine is in the smaller more evasive fullback mould but then with that defensively he isnt as strong (Keano Kini is probably my favourite player atm but he was targetted defensively in that Test series.....Tongans exsposed him a number of times catching him in the front line......and some of those cover tackles he missed a bigger body wouldve taken them out over the sideline)......so its not just one thing to consiider.

And tbh im still conflicted what the best mix will be. Im not sure attacking wise if our halves are going to be that creative this year (the big question will be if Te Maire can display that great form he showed in sporadic appearences over a whole season......which is a big ask)......it'll probably be a matter of playing it out and seeing who fits in and complements the rest of our spine.....

Which is the big unknown atm.

 

[Christchurch_Warrior]

Problem is i dont know if Charnze is that much different?

He's probably a better ball player, based on 2023 form on the back of those SJ led shapes he was effective linking between SJ and DWZ. Problem was last season those shapes were worked out and it seemed pretty obvious there wasnt a lot of other strings to his bow.

Taine is in the smaller more evasive fullback mould but then with that defensively he isnt as strong (Keano Kini is probably my favourite player atm but he was targetted defensively in that Test series.....Tongans exsposed him a number of times catching him in the front line......and some of those cover tackles he missed a bigger body wouldve taken them out over the sideline)......so its not just one thing to consiider.

And tbh im still conflicted what the best mix will be. Im not sure attacking wise if our halves are going to be that creative this year (the big question will be if Te Maire can display that great form he showed in sporadic appearences over a whole season......which is a big ask)......it'll probably be a matter of playing it out and seeing who fits in and complements the rest of our spine.....

Which is the big unknown atm.

IMO I would look at Tiane at the fullback role. Mainly because I do not have the greatest faith in our halves. With him at fullback you can go with a Storm model where they have Papenhuyzen as another option on the last play. Gives the defence another player they have to mark.

With RTS and CNK I see them as more similar type players. RTS will get you more meters but will be weaker on defence that CNK. CNK also is a better link player but far from elite at it.

Our spine for 2025 is not great. Hopefully Egen can stay injury free as he is a top hooker when playing at his best.

 

[peewee]

IMO I would look at Tiane at the fullback role. Mainly because I do not have the greatest faith in our halves. With him at fullback you can go with a Storm model where they have Papenhuyzen as another option on the last play. Gives the defence another player they have to mark.

With RTS and CNK I see them as more similar type players. RTS will get you more meters but will be weaker on defence that CNK. CNK also is a better link player but far from elite at it.

Our spine for 2025 is not great. Hopefully Egen can stay injury free as he is a top hooker when playing at his best.

If RTS and CNK are not good enough for todays style.
Get rid of them
SIMPLE

 

[WA Warrior]

What about this lineup?

1 R T Sheck
2 D W Zelezniak
3 C N Klokstad
4 A Leiataua
5 R Berry
6 L Metcalf
7 T Boyd
8 J F Harris
9 W Egan
10 M Barnett c
11 J Ford
12 K Capewell
13 T Harris

14 F Lussick
15 D Vaimauga
16 M Niukore
17 D Walker

I like this line up.
The only changes I would make is that I would find a spot for Clark-Probably for Nikoure at this point.
Also depending on who looks better in the trials maybe Healy for Lussick.
I hope Berry has spent time training on the wing in the preseason, he can solve a problem if he can do a job there.

 

[Damo]

What about this lineup?

1 R T Sheck
2 D W Zelezniak
3 C N Klokstad
4 A Leiataua
5 R Berry
6 L Metcalf
7 T Boyd
8 J F Harris
9 W Egan
10 M Barnett c
11 J Ford
12 K Capewell
13 T Harris

14 F Lussick
15 D Vaimauga
16 M Niukore
17 D Walker

Probably the least inspiring backrow in the competition.

 

[Warriorsfan92]

Roger will play wing, no doubt in my mind. His strengths are his yardage, and communication/experience. He always gets on the front foot with space & late footwork. Less playmaking decision making, more carry’s & effort.

I’m also pretty settled on the halves, Metcalf & TMM. They’ve shown they can work together, and TMM was one of the leading try assist & line break assists in the competition in his time at 7. Metcalf has the capacity to kick big metres (300+) in nsw cup, we’ve seen it. However, we also had the most tackles in the opposition 20m, IN THE COMP. We don’t need big kickers, we need correct pass selection, short kicking game & to score points. I believe these two can do it for us.

My biggest headache is the centres/fullback role. We’ve got taine, whilst inexperienced has never let the team down & brings speed to our backline sweep, something CNK does not. Charnze is the incumbent & is for me the starter, he’s earned it. He’s big on effort and rarely lets the team down. However his ability to play multiple positions does open up that door, and the question is, are taine and charnze in our top 17 players at the club?

Then the centres; berry, Leiataua, Pompey, (charnze). Personally, I’m going with Berry and Ali. Berry was one of comps strongest defenders, and our edges leaked too many points out wide when he wasn’t in the side. He’s also young, and is developing really nicely into a kicking option & hole runner out wide. Ali, too, has earned this spot. He’s been waiting in the wings for a few years now & has shown game breaking ability, and X factor. Having a defensively strong centre & a strike centre is the best balance imo. Then there’s the option of CNK to centre, taine to fb. For me, Rocco and Ali get the spot.

Back row is another interesting headache, with Capewell locking down one spot, with lock & the other edge up for grabs. There’s a few options here. Ford has errors in his game, but he also just re signed & they clearly have faith in him. He makes a ton of tackles, can score a try & works his ass off. Marata is another option, but I believe he’s a middle & would’ve played middle had it not been for so many injuries, this was stated by webby in 2023 pre season, and was where he started.

Theres also the lock conundrum. Tohu was busted, so I think it’s unfair to base what he brings to the table based off playing with a broken wrist for most of 2024. He looked off the pace & was uncharacteristically missing tackles that were his bread and butter. He’s still tohu Harris, the captain, premiership winning, international backrow & I think he does bounce back to start at 13. Walker brought a different aspect to the lock role, with speed, and superior link play with our halves. However I feel his best use is brought on as impact, against tiring defenders. There’s also the option of tohu playing prop with fish, Barnett as an edge initially, to then rotate to mid, bring Tohu off & bring on another edge in ford or halasima, if they go that route. It may even be a horses for courses approach with Tohu and Walker rotating, depending on opposition/game plan. Tohu to stiffen up the middle for 20-25 mins, then walker leg speed, or we go out the gate with shape and speed early.

My side is:
CNK
RTS
BERRY
LEIATAUA
DWZ
METCALF
TMM
FISH
EGAN
HARRIS
CAPEWELL
BARNETT
WALKER

CLARKE
VAIMAUGA
FORD
NIUKORE

The bench offers 3/4 props, 1 hooker option & one edge option. Niukore & ale/vaimauga are the bench props, with ale/vaimauga no more than 20-25mins, marata no more than 40. Ford can also play middle fairly well, but can cover edge or spell tohu, for Barnett to move to the middle.

We also can’t afford to carry a pure bench hooker, this is where Clarke comes in. He’s a fast mobile middle, but grew up as a hooker & can play it for 20-25 whilst spelling Egan if need be. Carrying lussick is not the option, as he’s an out and out hooker, and whilst defensively sound, is there as Egan injury cover and was unused multiple times a year, hurting the middle/back end of the game as our mids tired. Clarke is our bench hooker, who plays middle predominantly. Perhaps comes on late in the first, off early in the second, then spells Egan around 60 mins.. we will see. This is what I’d like to see personally.

Keen to hear your thoughts

 

[WA Warrior]

Roger will play wing, no doubt in my mind. His strengths are his yardage, and communication/experience. He always gets on the front foot with space & late footwork. Less playmaking decision making, more carry’s & effort.

I’m also pretty settled on the halves, Metcalf & TMM. They’ve shown they can work together, and TMM was one of the leading try assist & line break assists in the competition in his time at 7. Metcalf has the capacity to kick big metres (300+) in nsw cup, we’ve seen it. However, we also had the most tackles in the opposition 20m, IN THE COMP. We don’t need big kickers, we need correct pass selection, short kicking game & to score points. I believe these two can do it for us.

My biggest headache is the centres/fullback role. We’ve got taine, whilst inexperienced has never let the team down & brings speed to our backline sweep, something CNK does not. Charnze is the incumbent & is for me the starter, he’s earned it. He’s big on effort and rarely lets the team down. However his ability to play multiple positions does open up that door, and the question is, are taine and charnze in our top 17 players at the club?

Then the centres; berry, Leiataua, Pompey, (charnze). Personally, I’m going with Berry and Ali. Berry was one of comps strongest defenders, and our edges leaked too many points out wide when he wasn’t in the side. He’s also young, and is developing really nicely into a kicking option & hole runner out wide. Ali, too, has earned this spot. He’s been waiting in the wings for a few years now & has shown game breaking ability, and X factor. Having a defensively strong centre & a strike centre is the best balance imo. Then there’s the option of CNK to centre, taine to fb. For me, Rocco and Ali get the spot.

Back row is another interesting headache, with Capewell locking down one spot, with lock & the other edge up for grabs. There’s a few options here. Ford has errors in his game, but he also just re signed & they clearly have faith in him. He makes a ton of tackles, can score a try & works his ass off. Marata is another option, but I believe he’s a middle & would’ve played middle had it not been for so many injuries, this was stated by webby in 2023 pre season, and was where he started.

Theres also the lock conundrum. Tohu was busted, so I think it’s unfair to base what he brings to the table based off playing with a broken wrist for most of 2024. He looked off the pace & was uncharacteristically missing tackles that were his bread and butter. He’s still tohu Harris, the captain, premiership winning, international backrow & I think he does bounce back to start at 13. Walker brought a different aspect to the lock role, with speed, and superior link play with our halves. However I feel his best use is brought on as impact, against tiring defenders. There’s also the option of tohu playing prop with fish, Barnett as an edge initially, to then rotate to mid, bring Tohu off & bring on another edge in ford or halasima, if they go that route. It may even be a horses for courses approach with Tohu and Walker rotating, depending on opposition/game plan. Tohu to stiffen up the middle for 20-25 mins, then walker leg speed, or we go out the gate with shape and speed early.

My side is:
CNK
RTS
BERRY
LEIATAUA
DWZ
METCALF
TMM
FISH
EGAN
HARRIS
CAPEWELL
BARNETT
WALKER

CLARKE
VAIMAUGA
FORD
NIUKORE

The bench offers 3/4 props, 1 hooker option & one edge option. Niukore & ale/vaimauga are the bench props, with ale/vaimauga no more than 20-25mins, marata no more than 40. Ford can also play middle fairly well, but can cover edge or spell tohu, for Barnett to move to the middle.

We also can’t afford to carry a pure bench hooker, this is where Clarke comes in. He’s a fast mobile middle, but grew up as a hooker & can play it for 20-25 whilst spelling Egan if need be. Carrying lussick is not the option, as he’s an out and out hooker, and whilst defensively sound, is there as Egan injury cover and was unused multiple times a year, hurting the middle/back end of the game as our mids tired. Clarke is our bench hooker, who plays middle predominantly. Perhaps comes on late in the first, off early in the second, then spells Egan around 60 mins.. we will see. This is what I’d like to see personally.

Keen to hear your thoughts

Great breakdown mate.
One thing I will push back a bit though.
With the long kicking game, as you pointed out we had the most tackles in the opposition 20.
I believe that’s going to change this year, we had the number 1 prop barnstorming up field for us.
Without AFB I think we won’t find it so easy rolling down field.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Roger will play wing, no doubt in my mind. His strengths are his yardage, and communication/experience. He always gets on the front foot with space & late footwork. Less playmaking decision making, more carry’s & effort.

I’m also pretty settled on the halves, Metcalf & TMM. They’ve shown they can work together, and TMM was one of the leading try assist & line break assists in the competition in his time at 7. Metcalf has the capacity to kick big metres (300+) in nsw cup, we’ve seen it. However, we also had the most tackles in the opposition 20m, IN THE COMP. We don’t need big kickers, we need correct pass selection, short kicking game & to score points. I believe these two can do it for us.

My biggest headache is the centres/fullback role. We’ve got taine, whilst inexperienced has never let the team down & brings speed to our backline sweep, something CNK does not. Charnze is the incumbent & is for me the starter, he’s earned it. He’s big on effort and rarely lets the team down. However his ability to play multiple positions does open up that door, and the question is, are taine and charnze in our top 17 players at the club?

Then the centres; berry, Leiataua, Pompey, (charnze). Personally, I’m going with Berry and Ali. Berry was one of comps strongest defenders, and our edges leaked too many points out wide when he wasn’t in the side. He’s also young, and is developing really nicely into a kicking option & hole runner out wide. Ali, too, has earned this spot. He’s been waiting in the wings for a few years now & has shown game breaking ability, and X factor. Having a defensively strong centre & a strike centre is the best balance imo. Then there’s the option of CNK to centre, taine to fb. For me, Rocco and Ali get the spot.

Back row is another interesting headache, with Capewell locking down one spot, with lock & the other edge up for grabs. There’s a few options here. Ford has errors in his game, but he also just re signed & they clearly have faith in him. He makes a ton of tackles, can score a try & works his ass off. Marata is another option, but I believe he’s a middle & would’ve played middle had it not been for so many injuries, this was stated by webby in 2023 pre season, and was where he started.

Theres also the lock conundrum. Tohu was busted, so I think it’s unfair to base what he brings to the table based off playing with a broken wrist for most of 2024. He looked off the pace & was uncharacteristically missing tackles that were his bread and butter. He’s still tohu Harris, the captain, premiership winning, international backrow & I think he does bounce back to start at 13. Walker brought a different aspect to the lock role, with speed, and superior link play with our halves. However I feel his best use is brought on as impact, against tiring defenders. There’s also the option of tohu playing prop with fish, Barnett as an edge initially, to then rotate to mid, bring Tohu off & bring on another edge in ford or halasima, if they go that route. It may even be a horses for courses approach with Tohu and Walker rotating, depending on opposition/game plan. Tohu to stiffen up the middle for 20-25 mins, then walker leg speed, or we go out the gate with shape and speed early.

My side is:
CNK
RTS
BERRY
LEIATAUA
DWZ
METCALF
TMM
FISH
EGAN
HARRIS
CAPEWELL
BARNETT
WALKER

CLARKE
VAIMAUGA
FORD
NIUKORE

The bench offers 3/4 props, 1 hooker option & one edge option. Niukore & ale/vaimauga are the bench props, with ale/vaimauga no more than 20-25mins, marata no more than 40. Ford can also play middle fairly well, but can cover edge or spell tohu, for Barnett to move to the middle.

We also can’t afford to carry a pure bench hooker, this is where Clarke comes in. He’s a fast mobile middle, but grew up as a hooker & can play it for 20-25 whilst spelling Egan if need be. Carrying lussick is not the option, as he’s an out and out hooker, and whilst defensively sound, is there as Egan injury cover and was unused multiple times a year, hurting the middle/back end of the game as our mids tired. Clarke is our bench hooker, who plays middle predominantly. Perhaps comes on late in the first, off early in the second, then spells Egan around 60 mins.. we will see. This is what I’d like to see personally.

Keen to hear your thoughts

2nd row is terrible. Walker is poor at starting at 13, hes too small for the initial contact. Barnett gets run around 3-4 a game there. Theres multiple games to choose from last year to see this in action.

Rest of the analysis is great, I personally disagree on some points but I think Webby will agree with you on them.

 

[Warriorsfan92]

Great breakdown mate.
One thing I will push back a bit though.
With the long kicking game, as you pointed out we had the most tackles in the opposition 20.
I believe that’s going to change this year, we had the number 1 prop barnstorming up field for us.
Without AFB I think we won’t find it so easy rolling down field.

AFB averaged 174metres in 60min at 2.9m per minute. He was our alpha prop, with only Barnett to assist.

Fisher Harris averaged 130m in 45 mins at 2.88m per minute. He also had Leota, Henry & smith to help him out, so didn’t need the minutes. I’d expect an uptick in fishes minutes.

I don’t see any shift at all with output.

 

[Warriorsfan92]

2nd row is terrible. Walker is poor at starting at 13, hes too small for the initial contact. Barnett gets run around 3-4 a game there. Theres multiple games to choose from last year to see this in action.

What would you do then?

 

[Damo]

AFB averaged 174metres in 60min at 2.9m per minute. He was our alpha prop, with only Barnett to assist.

Fisher Harris averaged 130m in 45 mins at 2.8m per minute. He also had Leota, Henry & smith to help him out, so didn’t need the minutes. I’d expect an uptick in fishes minutes.

I don’t see any shift at all with output.

Maybe, I think they are very different players though. I'll be interested as to how Webby plays Fish, hopefully doesn't overdo it like he did with AFB (IMO).

 

[MrFrankWhite]

What would you do then?

I edited sorry. Posted in haste.

I would leave Harris out completely to work in from reserves. But thats never going in a NZ sporting team

 

[Warriorsfan92]

Maybe, I think they are very different players though. I'll be interested as to how Webby plays Fish, hopefully doesn't overdo it like he did with AFB (IMO).

agreed. I think 50min is the sweet spot. We’ve got niukore, Barnett, tohu, Clarke, ale/vaimauga all who can cover middle mins. Barnett was played too many mins too. I think this was out of necessity for afb & Barnett but if Niukore moves to a bench role, with the addition of Clarke, and ale/vaimauga and ford/halasima, I think we’re covered.

 

[WA Warrior]

AFB averaged 174metres in 60min at 2.9m per minute. He was our alpha prop, with only Barnett to assist.

Fisher Harris averaged 130m in 45 mins at 2.8m per minute. He also had Leota, Henry & smith to help him out, so didn’t need the minutes. I’d expect an uptick in fishes minutes.

I don’t see any shift at all with output.

Yeah I don’t go by Stats for everything, Fish will not have the same impact as AFB imo.

 

[Warriorsfan92]

I edited sorry. Posted in haste.

I would leave Harris out completely to work in from reserves. But thats never going in a NZ sporting team

You could be right bro. He’s still a high quality player, but needs to prove himself again. I still think he’s in the side, but playing middle, with no more than 40-50mins max.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

What would you do then?

.....
FORD
NIUKORE
CAPEWELL
VAIMAUGA

Healy
CLARK
BARNETT
WALKER

 

[Warriorsfan92]

Regarding the meters too, the extra 45 that afb have us, averages out to what, an extra 3-4m over the game a set? I don’t think this has any impact whatsoever.

 

[Damo]

Regarding the meters too, the extra 45 that afb have us, averages out to what, an extra 3-4m over the game a set? I don’t think this has any impact whatsoever.

I think it's better for the team if we run a traditional prop rotation anyway, rather than busting ass with two players doing the majority of the minutes.