Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[MaybeTop8]

Just the Greens transport and housing policies would require $9 billion PA additional tax each year to run above the current spending.... and you think it's complete bollocks.

You better not read their latest budget and wonder where the money is coming from....

https://assets.nationbuilder.com/beachheroes/pages/39988/attachments/original/1756800427/Budget_Print_MW_version_5-08-25_web.pdf?1756800427

Oh, and the māori Party have a policy of a separate Parliament and want a Commissionaire to oversea Parliament (who would, no doubt, decide down māori Party policy guidelines on what laws could and couldn't be introduced).

Mana Motuhake

As a Māori political movement we are guided by our tikanga and will always fiercely advocate for the interests of our whānau, Hapū and Iwi in Parliament and Government.

www.maoriparty.org.nz

This isn't a far-right agenda.... this is their agenda found on their web sites.

BTW, at this stage neither of the blocs are getting my vote.... I'm going for the Get Rid of All Feral Cats Party!!!

The Greens aren't radical left though Mike. What does that even mean, especially coming from luxon. Being human and caring seems to be radically left these days

We're witnessing radical right everywhere

 

[miket12]

The Greens aren't radical left though Mike. What does that even mean, especially coming from luxon. Being human and caring seems to be radically left these days

We're witnessing radical right everywhere

Human and caring? The Greens not only want a wealth tax, they want to reintroduce the brightline test to ten years (i.e. a CGT) and reintroduce the interest deductibility restrictions. Have a couple of mortgaged rental properties and you're basically taxed four ways.... income tax on the rent, loss of interest deductions (the so-called tax cuts for landlords), brightline and wealth tax. Not even Cuban or China tax the one asset class four ways.

And guess what direction rents will go when landlords get hit with that lot!!! Yip, really caring aren't they.... will not if you're a renter.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Human and caring? The Greens not only want a wealth tax, they want to reintroduce the brightline test to ten years (i.e. a CGT) and reintroduce the interest deductibility restrictions. Have a couple of mortgaged rental properties and you're basically taxed four ways.... income tax on the rent, loss of interest deductions (the so-called tax cuts for landlords), brightline and wealth tax. Not even Cuban or China tax the one asset class four ways.

And guess what direction rents will go when landlords get hit with that lot!!! Yip, really caring aren't they.... will not if you're a rent

Policies should be under scrutiny, and under question for sure. Some of those policies won't make sense to yourself and others on here, and will in fact be detrimental.

It's the language, the rhetoric, the repetition and widespread adoption of the same language and tactics that we see in Australia, New Zealand, the US (although more extreme), the UK and any other English speaking country. We've all been under 50+ years of neoliberalism, which I've mentioned ad nauseum.

The architects of neoliberalism are the same as those powering what we see in the US, evolving to include the oligarchs and billionaires.

The repetition of the same old arguments every election when......NOTHING HAS CHANGED. All that's happening is reinforcement of the status quo, which is neoliberalism, in fact, doubling down, attacking the poor, enabling mass redundancy, blaming those same people for losing their jobs.

Taking away their futures.

This is happening now, and is accelerating.

This is the right. This is who they are.

So taxing the rich? All for it. Set a ceiling where the wealth tax isn't applied, then everything above that - $100m, is that enough? It's more than enough for me.

All the arguments I hear against any kind of equality, economically, socially, educationally, all coming from the right. The status quo. Let's double down. etc.

And then those same people will complain that others are stealing their rights, it's not like it used to be, lock them up!, everyone has a level playing field, not in my back yard, EVEN THOUGH THEY'VE CREATED AND ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE IN THE CONDITIONS THAT HAVE CAUSED THE VERY THIINGS THEY'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT.

So when is enough? When will humanity come back into the conversation, here and politically?

With what we're witnessing, I can't believe the same tired old arguments will come out again.

That's not to say that all political parties should be under scrutiny. Of course they should.

Sorry @miket12 didn't mean to shout

But look around - the ONLY radicalism is the right and the far right, and they're tearing the world apart.

 

[defensivebomb]

The Greens aren't radical left though Mike. What does that even mean, especially coming from luxon. Being human and caring seems to be radically left these days

We're witnessing radical right everywhere

What we’ve seen of the “radical left” hasn’t exactly been human and caring

It’s either the Tamihere money printing machine or the terrorist supporting slave traders

say what you want about the centre/right, but I wouldn’t paint TPM and the greens as kind saints

 

[MaybeTop8]

What we’ve seen of the “radical left” hasn’t exactly been human and caring

It’s either the Tamihere money printing machine or the terrorist supporting slave traders

say what you want about the centre/right, but I wouldn’t paint TPM and the greens as kind saints

First of all, I've never mentioned TPM. Don't know enough, and don't care, they are what they are.

Secondly, what are you referring to here? terrorist supporting slave traders - please be explicit and name what you mean

Thirdly, the definition of centre is so distorted that people like Inruin and Wiz think they're centre.

Fourthly - never mentioned they're saints.

Fifth - how about 50 years of neoliberalism eh? How's that working out?

 

[miket12]

Policies should be under scrutiny, and under question for sure. Some of those policies won't make sense to yourself and others on here, and will in fact be detrimental.

It's the language, the rhetoric, the repetition and widespread adoption of the same language and tactics that we see in Australia, New Zealand, the US (although more extreme), the UK and any other English speaking country. We've all been under 50+ years of neoliberalism, which I've mentioned ad nauseum.

The architects of neoliberalism are the same as those powering what we see in the US, evolving to include the oligarchs and billionaires.

The repetition of the same old arguments every election when......NOTHING HAS CHANGED. All that's happening is reinforcement of the status quo, which is neoliberalism, in fact, doubling down, attacking the poor, enabling mass redundancy, blaming those same people for losing their jobs.

Taking away their futures.

This is happening now, and is accelerating.

This is the right. This is who they are.

So taxing the rich? All for it. Set a ceiling where the wealth tax isn't applied, then everything above that - $100m, is that enough? It's more than enough for me.

All the arguments I hear against any kind of equality, economically, socially, educationally, all coming from the right. The status quo. Let's double down. etc.

And then those same people will complain that others are stealing their rights, it's not like it used to be, lock them up!, everyone has a level playing field, not in my back yard, EVEN THOUGH THEY'VE CREATED AND ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE IN THE CONDITIONS THAT HAVE CAUSED THE VERY THIINGS THEY'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT.

So when is enough? When will humanity come back into the conversation, here and politically?

With what we're witnessing, I can't believe the same tired old arguments will come out again.

That's not to say that all political parties should be under scrutiny. Of course they should.

But look around - the ONLY radicalism is the right and the far right, and they're tearing the world apart.

339 words of dribble and nothing to address how a party which you say is "human and caring" yet will campaign all year to deliberately over tax one asset class and the consequence will be to push rents up.

Think of it this way.... the Greens budget will increase the entire tax take by an estimated $72 billion over four years but still require an additional $30 billion each year in more debt for their plans. At a "low" estimate of 4% on the additional borrowing, $1 billion of the extra $18 billion each year they expecting to bring in will be required just to service the interest bill... let alone repaying principle. BTW, not made-up figures, far-right figures, but from the Greens budget I posted the link to before.

 

[MaybeTop8]

339 words of dribble and nothing to address how a party which you say is "human and caring" yet will campaign all year to deliberately over tax one asset class and the consequence will be to push rents up.

Think of it this way.... the Greens budget will increase the entire tax take by an estimated $72 billion over four years but still require an additional $30 billion each year in more debt for their plans. At a "low" estimate of 4% on the additional borrowing, $1 billion of the extra $18 billion each year they expecting to bring in will be required just to service the interest bill... let alone repaying principle. BTW, not made-up figures, far-right figures, but from the Greens budget I posted the link to before.

And nothing ever, ever, ever changes.

Here's a thought - how have those policies gone in reality? Regardless of what you and I think.

We don't know.

Because it's all been neolib policies, those of parties on the right, for the last x years.

 

[defensivebomb]

First of all, I've never mentioned TPM. Don't know enough, and don't care, they are what they are.

True. But they are considered as “radical left” by many

Secondly, what are you referring to here? terrorist supporting slave traders - please be explicit and name what you mean

TBF, it was a bit of a dig at the blind support of hamas, coupled with hyperbole regarding Darleen Tama exploiting migrants for free labour

Thirdly, the definition of centre is so distorted that people like Inruin and Wiz think they're centre.

Fourthly - never mentioned they're saints.

Fifth - how about 50 years of neoliberalism eh? How's that working out?

Food on table, preventable diseases controlled, time to support NRL, free speech, free movement, education and opportunities for improving our lives. It’s not all bad

 

[miket12]

And nothing ever, ever, ever changes.

Here's a thought - how have those policies gone in reality? Regardless of what you and I think.

We don't know.

Because it's all been neolib policies, those of parties on the right, for the last x years.

Really? Nothing changes?

Our renters have an A/C unit in their lounge... we don't.
Their ceiling insulation needed to be up graded... ours hasn't been.
They have more powerful fans in the bathrooms... we still have the original ones from when our house was built two years before the rental was built.
They have a ranch hood... we don't.
They have an upgraded alarm system.... ours hasn't been.
All the wallpaper has been removed and the house repainted.... our wallpaper is falling off.
Their cars are on average 12 years younger than ours.
Our fridge is so old the enamel has worn off it... four weeks ago, I helped them move in their new fridge.

No.... it's all in favour off the landlords in a lot of peoples views.

And, no we're not super rich.... in fact, most years our net income would have been less than the median household income in Auckland.

And yet, if the māori Party get their way... we would have to pay a wealth tax because we did something unspeakable and decided to pay off our mortgage and save for our retirement through a rental property, managed funds and running a business for over 40 years. And if Labour get their way, we would have to pay for the capital gain we make on one property but not on the one next door... because we rent out one and live in the other. At least we wouldn't have enough of a net worth to trigger the Greens wealth tax... until one of us died.

 

[Matiunz]

Never really got the whole seemingly blind loyalty some seem to pride themselves on as either being left or right to the point of making it their identity-are people really “all in” on either side?
Both sides from my view have some valid points I agree with and alternatively have some points I strongly disagree with- surely there’s some healthy equilibrium? (Seen policies from both sides swing too far)

 

[MaybeTop8]

Really? Nothing changes?

Our renters have an A/C unit in their lounge... we don't.
Their ceiling insulation needed to be up graded... ours hasn't been.
They have more powerful fans in the bathrooms... we still have the original ones from when our house was built two years before the rental was built.
They have a ranch hood... we don't.
They have an upgraded alarm system.... ours hasn't been.
All the wallpaper has been removed and the house repainted.... our wallpaper is falling off.
Their cars are on average 12 years younger than ours.
Our fridge is so old the enamel has worn off it... four weeks ago, I helped them move in their new fridge.

No.... it's all in favour off the landlords in a lot of peoples views.

And, no we're not super rich.... in fact, most years our net income would have been less than the median household income in Auckland.

And yet, if the māori Party get their way... we would have to pay a wealth tax because we did something unspeakable and decided to pay off our mortgage and save for our retirement through a rental property, managed funds and running a business for over 40 years. And if Labour get their way, we would have to pay for the capital gain we make on one property but not on the one next door... because we rent out one and live in the other. At least we wouldn't have enough of a net worth to trigger the Greens wealth tax... until one of us died.

I would say most people on here aren't super rich, apart from a couple, but who knows tbh.

But isn't that your choice to have that rental though Mike? Good on you for the work you've done, but you have that choice if you want to right?

And isn't the fact that you've had to get a rental more indicative of where New Zealand has gone through neolib policies of creating a "mom and pop" myth that sees the housing market become the main industry?

We are where we are, and I'm sorry you don't have those things for yourself, but that's hardly the renters fault.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Never really got the whole seemingly blind loyalty some seem to pride themselves on as either being left or right to the point of making it their identity-are people really “all in” on either side?
Both sides from my view have some valid points I agree with and alternatively have some points I strongly disagree with- surely there’s some healthy equilibrium? (Seen policies from both sides swing too far)

Yeah Matiunz, I appreciate I'll be labelled far left (god knows why, there's a myth ) but to not acknowledge the effects of the last 50 years of neoliberalism as the foundations of the problems both in New Zealand and around the western world means I'm on a hiding to nothing most days.

 

[MaybeTop8]

True. But they are considered as “radical left” by many

TBF, it was a bit of a dig at the blind support of hamas, coupled with hyperbole regarding Darleen Tama exploiting migrants for free labour



Food on table, preventable diseases controlled, time to support NRL, free speech, free movement, education and opportunities for improving our lives. It’s not all bad

Not hamas. Palestinians. You can do better than that.

You're just mentioning basic human rights apart from the nrl. Neolibs seek to diminish or destroy them.

 

[MaybeTop8]

339 words of dribble and nothing to address how a party which you say is "human and caring" yet will campaign all year to deliberately over tax one asset class and the consequence will be to push rents up.

Think of it this way.... the Greens budget will increase the entire tax take by an estimated $72 billion over four years but still require an additional $30 billion each year in more debt for their plans. At a "low" estimate of 4% on the additional borrowing, $1 billion of the extra $18 billion each year they expecting to bring in will be required just to service the interest bill... let alone repaying principle. BTW, not made-up figures, far-right figures, but from the Greens budget I posted the link to before.

Not dribble btw Mike. Just not in the world view of some on here.

Here's some good rich people. I'm being facetious of course, but it's a valid question - how much is enough?

Nearly 400 millionaires and billionaires call for higher taxes on super-rich

Mark Ruffalo, Brian Eno and Abigail Disney sign letter timed for WEF in Davos saying wealthy are buying political influence

www.theguardian.com

 

[miket12]

I would say most people on here aren't super rich, apart from a couple, but who knows tbh.

But isn't that your choice to have that rental though Mike? Good on you for the work you've done, but you have that choice if you want to right?

And isn't the fact that you've had to get a rental more indicative of where New Zealand has gone through neolib policies of creating a "mom and pop" myth that sees the housing market become the main industry?

We are where we are, and I'm sorry you don't have those things for yourself, but that's hardly the renters fault.

I watched as my parents lost a lot of money they could afford to in the '87 share market crash and then in so called "safe" finance companies in the late 2000's, so we decided to diversify where we would invest. The rental was a property we originally owned, sold and then brought it back with the intention that we may retire in it in 10-15 years when this house was too large. Instead, we'll probably move to an apartment now that S has changed jobs and is working in the CBD now.... except banks don't like lending to you when you're this close to retiring and we'd probably have to sell both properties to get where we want to be... 2 bed, 2 bathrooms, 2 car parks, just off Ponsonby Road.... we thought the City Rail Link was a huge waste of money until it looks like she'd be catching it each day at K Rd... now it's the best idea EVER!!!!

We've actually got more capital in sharemarkets (through managed funds and a small share portfolio) than we do in the rental property.... courtesy of using the equity in our house to buy it with no deposit. We consider the amount we pay each month to cover the short fall in rent for the expenses/mortgage as a form of saving as it's dropping the principal owed to the bank all the time.... increasing our equity in the rental.

 

[miket12]

Not dribble btw Mike. Just not in the world view of some on here.

Here's some good rich people. I'm being facetious of course, but it's a valid question - how much is enough?

Nearly 400 millionaires and billionaires call for higher taxes on super-rich

Mark Ruffalo, Brian Eno and Abigail Disney sign letter timed for WEF in Davos saying wealthy are buying political influence

www.theguardian.com

If I had nothing and won Lotto, I'd think around $6 mil would do me. $1.5m to buy a decent place, car/s, furniture, etc., $1.5m "cash money" to live on for say 12 years at $120K each year and $3m to put into investments (managed funds and commercial property funds). If the invested amount made 6% each year after tax and expenses, it would double in value around the same time as the cash money ran out.

I've got pretty simple tastes, so that would do me.

 

[MaybeTop8]

If I had nothing and won Lotto, I'd think around $6 mil would do me. $1.5m to buy a decent place, car/s, furniture, etc., $1.5m "cash money" to live on for say 12 years at $120K each year and $3m to put into investments (managed funds and commercial property funds). If the invested amount made 6% each year after tax and expenses, it would double in value around the same time as the cash money ran out.

I've got pretty simple tastes, so that would do me.

Thanks for answering, yeah, me too, that's very much in line with my thinking. You need a soundproof room to play the drums too

Will never happen for me of course!