Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[Mr. Brownstone]

Interesting how any counterpoint to the predominantly right and far right narrative is considered Marxist though

View attachment 13311

Not really, I wouldn’t go near suggesting say a typical Labour voter has that ideology. Not even close. However I do think there’s some alignment with the views you put forward on this thread.

 

[Worried2Death]

Tim Dillons interview highlights how even left wing journalists and commentators don’t consider themselves and their ilk to be on the left.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/19/us/video/reeve-tim-dillon-full-interview-digvid

Are you going to watch his Netflix special Frank, and would you say you're blackpilled?

 

[MaybeTop8]

Not really, I wouldn’t go near suggesting say a typical Labour voter has that ideology. Not even close. However I do think there’s some alignment with the views you put forward on this thread.

Interesting, see, I don't. Couldn't even remotely quote any Marx. Have also stated I'm absolutely not anti capitalism, just a particularly voracious far right version that weirdly no one here seems to admit we've been living under for the last 50 years called neoliberalism.

But to be honest, we're in a phase now where it's not about left v right, it's about (humanity, community and democracy) vs (oligarchy, hatred and fascism) or in my terms right vs wrong.

Appreciate your viewpoint.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Interesting, see, I don't. Couldn't even remotely quote any Marx. Have also stated I'm absolutely not anti capitalism, just a particularly voracious far right version that weirdly no one here seems to admit we've been living under for the last 50 years called neoliberalism.

But to be honest, we're in a phase now where it's not about left v right, it's about (humanity, community and democracy) vs (oligarchy, hatred and fascism) or in my terms right vs wrong.

Appreciate your viewpoint.

And my only counter to that is that I see oligarchy, hatred & fascism as being a very very small minority of the population, I mean point out to me where oligarchy even exists in NZ? As for hatred, well any political leaning is capable of that. Me voting right vs you voting left doesn’t define either of us beyond how we think about the best way to tackle the many problems out there. However I’m sure we both want the same outcomes for society etc.

 

[Worried2Death]

Interesting, see, I don't. Couldn't even remotely quote any Marx. Have also stated I'm absolutely not anti capitalism, just a particularly voracious far right version that weirdly no one here seems to admit we've been living under for the last 50 years called neoliberalism.

But to be honest, we're in a phase now where it's not about left v right, it's about (humanity, community and democracy) vs (oligarchy, hatred and fascism) or in my terms right vs wrong.

Appreciate your viewpoint.

I tend to agree with you broadly, without constraint the default position of neoliberalism is predatory and exploitative, and ultimately negative for social cohesion. That's an innate trait in much of our species though, not necessarily a political ideology.

 

[MaybeTop8]

And my only counter to that is that I see oligarchy, hatred & fascism as being a very very small minority of the population, I mean point out to me where oligarchy even exists in NZ? As for hatred, well any political leaning is capable of that. Me voting right vs you voting left doesn’t define either of us beyond how we think about the best way to tackle the many problems out there. However I’m sure we both want the same outcomes for society etc.

Agree on outcomes. In my opinion New Zealand currently meets this definition also -


ACT absolutely fulfils it, and National isn't far behind.

 

[Worried2Death]

And my only counter to that is that I see oligarchy, hatred & fascism as being a very very small minority of the population, I mean point out to me where oligarchy even exists in NZ? As for hatred, well any political leaning is capable of that. Me voting right vs you voting left doesn’t define either of us beyond how we think about the best way to tackle the many problems out there. However I’m sure we both want the same outcomes for society etc.

That Canadian billionaire who's trying to buy into NZ media could be an oligarch. Might be our first one!
What about our fellow Kiwi Peter Thiel, does he qualify?

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Agree on outcomes. In my opinion New Zealand currently meets this definition also - View attachment 13312


ACT absolutely fulfils it, and National isn't far behind.

Nah, NZ runs a democratic process, they aren’t oligarchs. Seymour’s biggest fault is that he fails to see things from others perspectives, I’m not sure he grasps that due to circumstances people aren’t all born into the same opportunities. However I do believe he has the best interests of NZ’ers at heart. He’s just not necessarily right in coming up with the solutions! But the exact same can be said for Swarbrick or any of the others. Luxon is a bit different, I genuinely think he only really cares about himself, however he’s pretty harmless.

 

[MaybeTop8]

That Canadian billionaire who's trying to buy into NZ media could be an oligarch. Might be our first one!
What about our fellow Kiwi Peter Thiel, does he qualify?

Funny you should ask that - https://broligarchy.substack.com/p/...e&r=2rg7a&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

 

[Worried2Death]

I genuinely think he only really cares about himself, however he’s pretty harmless.

Not sure that's harmless, his decisions are motivated by what best for himself? I thought he was supposed to be a Christian.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Nah, NZ runs a democratic process, they aren’t oligarchs. Seymour’s biggest fault is that he fails to see things from others perspectives, I’m not sure he grasps that due to circumstances people aren’t all born into the same opportunities. However I do believe he has the best interests of NZ’ers at heart. He’s just not necessarily right in coming up with the solutions! But the exact same can be said for Swarbrick or any of the others. Luxon is a bit different, I genuinely think he only really cares about himself, however he’s pretty harmless.

Not unexpectedly we diverge greatly around Seymour. Just ask WorriedToDeath about Atlas.

Honestly? He absolutely does not have Nzers best interests at heart, quite the opposite. I'd agree on most of the rest though

 

[Worried2Death]

Funny you should ask that - https://broligarchy.substack.com/p/...e&r=2rg7a&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

Darth Peter

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Not sure that's harmless, his decisions are motivated by what best for himself? I thought he was supposed to be a Christian.

All I mean is that he wants to be the PM & he’ll take the path that he thinks will be most popular with the voters. He doesn’t hold enough conviction on anything to step on toes & push the boundaries. He’s a poor mans John Key.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

On retirement, why aren’t we looking to LOWER retirement age (and not just for māori).

With the rapid increases in productivity over the years we should have the capacity to be better off and do much less work for much more GDP. Eg if we’ve doubled productivity in the last 20 years, we should be able half the retirement age without increasing any taxes.

Where have all the benefits of advancement in society gone. Why do we need more taxes to deliver less?

This ties into the universal basic income (UBI) dream… technology should be making us as workers obsolete… or is a UBI never achievable?

Instead of a UBI, lower the retirement age. And if we can’t afford that, WTF is going wrong!

 

[MaybeTop8]

On retirement, why aren’t we looking to LOWER retirement age (and not just for māori).

With the rapid increases in productivity over the years we should have the capacity to be better off and do much less work for much more GDP. Eg if we’ve doubled productivity in the last 20 years, we should be able half the retirement age without increasing any taxes.

Where have all the benefits of advancement in society gone. Why do we need more taxes to deliver less?

This ties into the universal basic income (UBI) dream… technology should be making us as workers in necessary.

Instead of a UBI lower the retirement age and if we can’t afford that, WTF is going wrong!

The answer to your third sentence is neoliberalism and wealth extraction

 

[Worried2Death]

On retirement, why aren’t we looking to LOWER retirement age (and not just for māori).

With the rapid increases in productivity over the years we should have the capacity to be better off and do much less work for much more GDP. Eg if we’ve doubled productivity in the last 20 years, we should be able half the retirement age without increasing any taxes.

Where have all the benefits of advancement in society gone. Why do we need more taxes to deliver less?

This ties into the universal basic income (UBI) dream… technology should be making us as workers in necessary.

Instead of a UBI lower the retirement age and if we can’t afford that, WTF is going wrong!

Oh sweet summer child, when will you awake from your utopian dreams. Where's all the capital gone?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

The answer to your third sentence is neoliberalism and wealth extraction

I think we’re constantly raising standards in healthcare, food, housing, H&S, road design, compliance, etc, etc, etc.

We have made choices to spend the advances in society where we see fit.

To say we need to raise retirement age though, is a wrong choice as a priority.

And I believe it is all a choice of where and how we improve.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

The answer to your third sentence is neoliberalism and wealth extraction

Hmmm… so are all the wealth extractors retiring at 40?

I don’t see them everywhere. So why not?

 

[MaybeTop8]

Hmmm… so are all the wealth extractors retiring at 40?

I don’t see them everywhere. So why not?

fourth sentence

 

[Worried2Death]

All I mean is that he wants to be the PM & he’ll take the path that he thinks will be most popular with the voters. He doesn’t hold enough conviction on anything to step on toes & push the boundaries. He’s a poor mans John Key.

Would you go as far as to say he's an insipid ego-driven fraud sitting on a throne of lies? Or just another egg on a wall.