Current Affairs 🌡️ Weather / climate change

Gummy bear said:
the Guardian LMAO
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Read the content. Maybe it sinks in, maybe it doesn't.

The thing is about all of this. The impact of man made interactions has caused an acceleration of the impact of climate change in a way never seen before on this planet, all in the last 200 years. It will happen regardless of what you or I think, and it's happening now. You all can deny all you like, but the extreme weather events will still happen regardless of whatever you believe.
 

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MaybeTop8 said:
I know what I fundamentally believe to be true:

We are in the midst of growing fascism around the world
We are in the midst of an extreme conservative contraction where those of the right leanings, hard right religious factions, opportunist oligarchs and other bad actors are seeing the chance to dismantle democracies everywhere for their own gain
Our own ACT party is part of this grouping - this is who they are
The National party have always demonstrated this but they are going more extreme too
The right groupings are highly organised and extremely well planned
They include antivaxxers, moral conservatives, racists, bigots, bullies, huge amounts of misogyny, well funded networks of disinformation and astroturfing (hello taxpayers union), homophobia and transphobia, anti climate change, warmongers, authoritarians, fascists, conspiracists who will believe anything, and others. This isn't some big conspiracy. These are the times we live in, and is a well directed and well executed set of actions to get us to the point where we are now.
Putin is an evil authoritarian dictator who won't stop and Russia are the aggressors absolutely
Accelerated manmade climate change is real - science and fact.

I see all of these things reflected back in the grouping of posters on here that I regularly run into on every post in the form of belittling scorn, condescension, bullying, looking to shut me down etc. And yet. Most of what I post turns out to be true. And deep down, you all know that, somewhere, I'm sure you do.

And if I'm wrong, I'll happily admit it. Because if I'm wrong, the world won't be any necessarily worse off. If you lot are, we're fucked.

I'm not posting because I'm trying to convince anyone. I'm posting because I'm fucking angry about all of these things. I get criticised for not entering into endless circular discussions about what I believe in. Everything I post contains the substance and foundation of my values.

And that same grouping who always, always, without fail, post back against me, never ever speak out against:

The growing fascism
The misogyny on display here and all around us
The racism on display here and all around us
The genocide being committed by Israel
The authoritarian dictatorship that is Trump and America
The fact that MAN MADE ACCELERATED CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL AND THERE ARE EXTREME WEATHER EVENTS HAPPENING MORE FREQUENTLY
Censorship and authoritarianism is on the rise around the world
Community and cooperation are being deliberately dismantled

That same grouping fail time and time again to even remotely acknowledge history and complexity in any of these things - as one example, the role of neoliberalism in the west, New Zealand and it's origins from those on the far right.

NONE OF THIS IS ANYTHING REMOTELY LEFT RELATED. This is all the right. And to be honest I don't give a fuck about left or right, this is a class war, a war on the less privileged.


I can only surmise that this is down to a few things, and this is arrogant of me but hey:
1. Privilege - you speak from a position of privilege, and you wish to retain that privilege
2. There's a feeling of being threatened
3. There's a need to go back to some mythical golden era - regression, or keeping things the way they are
4. There's an inherent narcism and selfishness borne from this golden age of individualism, which has managed to isolate individuals and successfully break down communities. ACT are continuing this role as it fits within the neoliberalist ideology


Instead for that grouping of posters, and those outside of right leanings, it's easier to speak about wokeness, about how the so called left want to take away the white man's privilege. To believe in some kind of manufactured culture war.
It's easier to resort to insult, lies, conspiracy, poison and slander. Look at Frank for an example there.

Rather than admit that the aspects that make your life comfortable are a threat to the world. Rather than speak out.

All I see far too often is the ME syndrome:
Why should I blah blah blah
What's in it for me blah blah blah
It doesn't affect me blah blah blah
I have the right to be <racist, misogynist, sexist, a bully, an arsehole> etc


And for advocates of so called free speech, it's amazing how the right around the world are looking to shut down all dissent.


I know why I do this Rick. Although having circular arguments has run it's course.

You seem intelligent. Why do you?

Why am I picking on you? I'm not really, apart from the banality of the condescension, and you're not the first to display it - it summarises the banality of this all, and I am saddened by that.
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I do it because I hate to see people suckered and forced to comply with a costly regime that serves no purpose.
The science on climate is not settled and never will be due to the randomness of nature. None of the modeling or predictions of the last 100 years have proved to be authentic. The IPCC has no credibility and changes its mind like it changes undies. How can you get the methane levels so badly wrong then act like it's another day at the office. The repercussions on a country like us of the original numbers would have been catastrophic. So, no, as far as I can see, the science is not settled nor is there any credibility in man made climate change which has become an all consuming industry of it's own.

The rest of your stuff is in my view existential and I do agree with some of it. Circular? not so much. There's the odd sharp corner but we can certainly agree to disagree
 
MaybeTop8 said:
Read the content. Maybe it sinks in, maybe it doesn't.

The thing is about all of this. The impact of man made interactions has caused an acceleration of the impact of climate change in a way never seen before on this planet, all in the last 200 years. It will happen regardless of what you or I think, and it's happening now. You all can deny all you like, but the extreme weather events will still happen regardless of whatever you believe.
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2023 had record global insured losses from natural disasters, despite no single catastrophic event.

1 - Can it ALSO be, humans congregate in the worst high risk zone places, along coasts and rivers, in warm dry places (California, Australia) where’s its best to live but if the population of that area doubles in say 10 years, then the cost of events will also skyrocket?

2 - Then living in cities with urban sprawl, intensification and reduction is soakage areas exacerbates the issue? Honestly rural/ farming has always dealt with variable climate, had losses and damage and adapted. A lot of the issues are when the storms/ floods/ heat waves hit cities. Prime example we have earthquakes every year with little damage - a moderate (not huge) one hits Christchurch and the same event that does nothing elsewhere causes major damage and loss of life in a city. That same event hits Auckland and it’s even more massive. Population congregated to gather amplifies events.

3 - our costs to build/ replace a house has skyrocketed and the rising insurance costs partly reflects this (material cost/ inflation plus building increasing standards and associated costs). The cost to build a house has gone up 40% in the last 5 years so this has to impact premiums.
 
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MaybeTop8 said:
Read the content. Maybe it sinks in, maybe it doesn't.

The thing is about all of this. The impact of man made interactions has caused an acceleration of the impact of climate change in a way never seen before on this planet, all in the last 200 years. It will happen regardless of what you or I think, and it's happening now. You all can deny all you like, but the extreme weather events will still happen regardless of whatever you believe.
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I really don’t see how anyone could say we’re not contributing however much it’s the earth’s cycle or whatever when if you considered that any automobile or aircraft that runs on fuel pumped out of the ground wouldn’t go out into our atmosphere if they didn’t exist. How could the volume of them on the road and in the skies not contribute? Not to say we can do without them and how they’ve changed the world since horse and cart etc, but just a reality. Then there’s the factories in the world and their contributions
 
Rick O’Shay said:
I do it because I hate to see people suckered and forced to comply with a costly regime that serves no purpose.
The science on climate is not settled and never will be due to the randomness of nature. None of the modeling or predictions of the last 100 years have proved to be authentic. The IPCC has no credibility and changes its mind like it changes undies. How can you get the methane levels so badly wrong then act like it's another day at the office. The repercussions on a country like us of the original numbers would have been catastrophic. So, no, as far as I can see, the science is not settled nor is there any credibility in man made climate change which has become an all consuming industry of it's own.

The rest of your stuff is in my view existential and I do agree with some of it. Circular? not so much. There's the odd sharp corner but we can certainly agree to disagree
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The circular wasn't directed at you, it's more 90% of my interactions with others in the loose grouping. Without naming names directly they might rhyme with townstone, binbluin, jiz of small donger (sorry wiz, noitall's original has stuck :) ) as some examples.

Frank I'll just name outright as a special case.

It's all brickwall stuff for both me and those parties I'm sure.
 
Noitall said:
I really don’t see how anyone could say we’re not contributing however much it’s the earth’s cycle or whatever when if you considered that any automobile or aircraft that runs on fuel pumped out of the ground wouldn’t go out into our atmosphere if they didn’t exist. How could the volume of them on the road and in the skies not contribute? Not to say we can do without them and how they’ve changed the world since horse and cart etc, but just a reality. Then there’s the factories in the world and their contributions
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Exactly.
 

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MaybeTop8 said:
The impact of man made interactions has caused an acceleration of the impact of climate change in a way never seen before on this planet, all in the last 200 years.
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Now we're getting somewhere. You're talking my language. Yes, the impact of climate change is the thing that needs addressing.
The things like building on flood plains, taking soakage away and replacing it with concrete and asphalt, building and living in amongst dry timber. Lots and lots of different scenarios where we have got it very wrong in the past and continue to do so. Our infrastructure and corresponding lifestyles aren't designed to cope with the change at the moment.
My other point is that these extreme weather events aren't new and only arrived in the last 10 years. There are statistics around (I'll drag them out if anyone is interested) from the 1800s here in NZ that show we have had many many extreme events.
The difference now is that there are more of us for the event to impact and along with the population, more possessions and infrastructure to damage. Plus, the media loves a disaster or crisis.
 

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MaybeTop8 said:
Here's a thought for you Gummy, and hopefully it's a warm one and received with the good intentions that I send it - What if you're wrong?

Worth a consideration.
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Always happy to be proven wrong and learn something.
I am more worried that I am right and I have to watch on as the IPCC, Gore, Mann (and others) and their thousands of lemming like followers condem billions of people to lives of poverty.
 

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MrFrankWhite said:
Measure that volume against fires and volcanic output
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That’s nature, these are man made that I referenced that you’ve taken a small segment of. Perhaps those that offered sacrifices to the gods were aware of climate change and was their reasoning for their offering to keep volcanoes dormant and extreme conditions to cause fires?
 
The fires is an interesting one. Nature always produces fire, the bushfire tragedies in Oz and the US being examples of what happens when we build in places without mitigation.
Was thinking about slash (and fires earlier) Back in the day (Central north island) after felling and at the back end of summer, the slash was wind rowed and the whole area controllably burnt. Stopped the slash damming up the waterways and provided a nice potash base for re-planting.
I guess we don't do it now due to the fire in the sky aspect? BTW, I'm an adherent to the Total Combustion Theory.
 

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