Forgot to mention. I own some trees, actually, quite a few. Carbon baby.
Current Affairs š”ļø Weather / climate change
- Thread starter wizard of Tauranga
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NZWarriors.com
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- #362
Cities are the climate problem and I find it funny city people are telling everyone how to live, while us rural folk live off the land and in harmony with itā¦
Nice one. What are you charging for an ounce?
NZWarriors.com
I'm not even remotely interested in the carbon credit system.Yeah, yeah, yeah, your climate science is being discredited every day. As I keep saying, show me the money and explain to me and others how the carbon credit system works and is an advantage to not only NZ but the world in general other than the people whom you despise
Around $57 a unit todays price.
You should be, because that's all that's wrong with the climate change BS and you're (or your Govt) paying through the nose for it.
$20+ billion is what the Dame signed you up for so I figured on the follow the money basis that there had to be something in it for the average punter. I was right and it's not that hard to get a slice of your taxes. Thanks mate.
NZWarriors.com
A neoliberalist mechanism to get around doing anything about climate change and encourage corruption shouldn't surprise anyone. I am surprised it's seen as some sort of left leaning conspiracy. It's all related to not taking action as it's too expensive, too hard and will affect wealth extraction. And also avoids any kind of responsibility. It emanates from the same powerbase
So how come the Dame and her Govt signed us up for it? Seymour nowhere in sight. And please explain which powerbase that is? WEF or Atlas?
Why would we take action to alter something that's happening naturally and spend billions on it unless you're a virtue signaling poser. Sound familiar? As I posted earlier, we need to be spending the money on mitigation.
Stick to politics my friend, you're way out of your depth in the climate thread.
Actually Rick, your thinking is from false premises and your own bias. I'll do what I like thanks. You, and others are completely and utterly morally bereft in these matters, and on the wrong side of history. Not to mention science and fact.
And as I've said many times, Labour are part of the neoliberal framework and need a fundamental adjustment to their politics if they're to remotely call themselves a social good party.
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NZWarriors.com
I know what I fundamentally believe to be true:
We are in the midst of growing fascism around the world
We are in the midst of an extreme conservative contraction where those of the right leanings, hard right religious factions, opportunist oligarchs and other bad actors are seeing the chance to dismantle democracies everywhere for their own gain
Our own ACT party is part of this grouping - this is who they are
The National party have always demonstrated this but they are going more extreme too
The right groupings are highly organised and extremely well planned
They include antivaxxers, moral conservatives, racists, bigots, bullies, huge amounts of misogyny, well funded networks of disinformation and astroturfing (hello taxpayers union), homophobia and transphobia, anti climate change, warmongers, authoritarians, fascists, conspiracists who will believe anything, and others. This isn't some big conspiracy. These are the times we live in, and is a well directed and well executed set of actions to get us to the point where we are now.
Putin is an evil authoritarian dictator who won't stop and Russia are the aggressors absolutely
Accelerated manmade climate change is real - science and fact.
I see all of these things reflected back in the grouping of posters on here that I regularly run into on every post in the form of belittling scorn, condescension, bullying, looking to shut me down etc. And yet. Most of what I post turns out to be true. And deep down, you all know that, somewhere, I'm sure you do.
And if I'm wrong, I'll happily admit it. Because if I'm wrong, the world won't be any necessarily worse off. If you lot are, we're fucked.
I'm not posting because I'm trying to convince anyone. I'm posting because I'm fucking angry about all of these things. I get criticised for not entering into endless circular discussions about what I believe in. Everything I post contains the substance and foundation of my values.
And that same grouping who always, always, without fail, post back against me, never ever speak out against:
The growing fascism
The misogyny on display here and all around us
The racism on display here and all around us
The genocide being committed by Israel
The authoritarian dictatorship that is Trump and America
The fact that MAN MADE ACCELERATED CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL AND THERE ARE EXTREME WEATHER EVENTS HAPPENING MORE FREQUENTLY
Censorship and authoritarianism is on the rise around the world
Community and cooperation are being deliberately dismantled
That same grouping fail time and time again to even remotely acknowledge history and complexity in any of these things - as one example, the role of neoliberalism in the west, New Zealand and it's origins from those on the far right.
NONE OF THIS IS ANYTHING REMOTELY LEFT RELATED. This is all the right. And to be honest I don't give a fuck about left or right, this is a class war, a war on the less privileged.
I can only surmise that this is down to a few things, and this is arrogant of me but hey:
1. Privilege - you speak from a position of privilege, and you wish to retain that privilege
2. There's a feeling of being threatened
3. There's a need to go back to some mythical golden era - regression, or keeping things the way they are
4. There's an inherent narcism and selfishness borne from this golden age of individualism, which has managed to isolate individuals and successfully break down communities. ACT are continuing this role as it fits within the neoliberalist ideology
Instead for that grouping of posters, and those outside of right leanings, it's easier to speak about wokeness, about how the so called left want to take away the white man's privilege. To believe in some kind of manufactured culture war.
It's easier to resort to insult, lies, conspiracy, poison and slander. Look at Frank for an example there.
Rather than admit that the aspects that make your life comfortable are a threat to the world. Rather than speak out.
All I see far too often is the ME syndrome:
Why should I blah blah blah
What's in it for me blah blah blah
It doesn't affect me blah blah blah
I have the right to be <racist, misogynist, sexist, a bully, an arsehole> etc
And for advocates of so called free speech, it's amazing how the right around the world are looking to shut down all dissent.
I know why I do this Rick. Although having circular arguments has run it's course.
You seem intelligent. Why do you?
Why am I picking on you? I'm not really, apart from the banality of the condescension, and you're not the first to display it - it summarises the banality of this all, and I am saddened by that.
This is extremely important so I'm going to post again: https://www.theguardian.com/comment...bury-starve-benefit-rod-liddle-lewis-schaffer
And furthermore
Accelerated man made climate change IS political.
Climate Change denial IS political..
The ridiculousness of the "Who benefits from the Climate Change ecology industry" when there's multi trillion dollar oil companies with a huge interest in fomenting denial so they can keep extracting wealth and continuing their ecological destruction ffs. Who benefits indeed.
It's similar to the right neoliberally aligned parties enacting policies in the last 50 years that have shaped the neglect and hardship many of us find ourselves in today, then turn around and pretend to be our saviours.
They have very cleverly shaped the narrative here.
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NZWarriors.com
- Thread starter
- #373
If oil is like a drug we canāt escape from without decimating our economy and lifestlye, how do we motivate the masses to fight climate change?And furthermore
Accelerated man made climate change IS political.
Climate Change denial IS political..
The ridiculousness of the "Who benefits from the Climate Change ecology industry" when there's multi trillion dollar oil companies with a huge interest in fomenting denial so they can keep extracting wealth and continuing their ecological destruction ffs. Who benefits indeed.
It's similar to the right neoliberally aligned partied enacting policies in the last 50 years that have shaped the neglect and hardship many of us find ourselves in today, then turn around and pretend to be our saviours.
They have very cleverly shaped the narrative here.
This is the problem. Yes, I think everyone agrees the climate is changing but we disagree over the cause and solutions.
From my perspective, you donāt win people over by demanding sacrifice and calling them the problem, you win them by offering a better story, a better life, and a shared mission. And you donāt need everyone to join, just enough to reach a tipping point
Rinse and repeat for neoliberalismā¦
the Guardian LMAO
ha! and you call me a liar
NZWarriors.com
There's many questions in your answer wiz.If oil is like a drug we canāt escape from without decimating our economy and lifestlye, how do we motivate the masses to fight climate change?
This is the problem. Yes, I think everyone agrees the climate is changing but we disagree over the cause and solutions.
From my perspective, you donāt win people over by demanding sacrifice and calling them the problem, you win them by offering a better story, a better life, and a shared mission. And you donāt need everyone to join, just enough to reach a tipping point
Rinse and repeat for neoliberalismā¦
"Yes, I think everyone agrees the climate is changing but we disagree over the cause and solutions" - given the climate science has been settled for approximately 50 years WHY are we disagreeing? What are the sources that have led you and others to those conclusions. And if you dig into the substance of those sources, and who is behind those, I'm pretty certain you will find oil and petroleum funded industries.
Exactly like tobacco all those years.
There's patterns to all of this. If you look at the pattern in my long reply above, and you reviewed all the comments in anything remotely controversial in these forums, those patterns will be easily identifiable in the same grouping of posters I butt heads with on a regular basis.
I have no interest in what you think mate. Good luck to you, but your foundations are on false premises.
Actually I do. I hate lies.
It's interesting that your entire take on my comment is that I'm lying. That's definitely something for you to ponder, if you're willing.
The science is never settled.
The only thing that was settled was the scientific method, but even that has been bastardised by the likes of Mann, Gore And Hansen.
NZWarriors.com
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- #379
1 - the climate has always changed and humans MUST always adapt. 10,000 years ago, most of humanities lifestyle was submerged when the coastlines rose 120m.
2 - as per my first paragraph, where is the viable solution that doesnāt wreck our standard of living and lifestyle. And the old āitās worse if we do nothingā doesnāt wash. I think thereās a path where we adapt and work with the changes. But that story/ solution is never promoted. We need a positive way forward instead of a constant doom and gloom āthe world going to endā narrative.
(Same for culture war stuff, neoliberalism, etc - the solution to anything and everything is win/ win rather than division)
You can see what doing nothing has done in all the damage we're seeing by the extreme weather events and increased insurance premiums. Time for me to engage with the weekend rather than here.
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