Social ⚔️ Palestine, Israel war.

[mrblonde]

Unless of course, this is all a dastardly plan from the Conservative Fundamentalist Christians: Destroy the Jews and the Muslims, take over those who'll bend to their will...

Haven't the US helped both sides, here? In different ways, certainly, but still...

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Do you think the rape and execution of Jewish children is a crime or a good thing?

This struck a chord.

I’ve always thought peace is everyone’s ultimate aim in life and your guilty of evil if you hate, murder or rape.

But that’s my western point of view. What happens when a whole country and society has different morals backed by religion, the state and your fellow men. It’s just normal to kill someone you see as evil. They deserve it. If it isn’t wrong in their eyes then it’s a fucked up situation for us too comprehend.

Yet I understand how they see it and how killing can be all good in their eyes.

And then if both sides live by the sword - who are we in the west to step in and force our morals on them. Do we even have the moral authority if they operate on different morals???

The whole conflict is operating on another level of rules and morals and unable to be really understood by us westerners - or at least me sitting safe in little old isolated NZ.

 

[Defence]

Feel better bro, what is it, covid?

No just a bit blocked up.

 

[sup42]

I’ve been crook in bed the last few days so been studying up on all this but it’s just too complex for me- I feel like u would have to be a religious fanatic to really appreciate where either side is coming from.
A peaceful solution seems impossible.

It is not that complicated really, even though (largely Religiously motivated thinkers) make it so.

The Jews lost their land a long long time ago, and we all know the consequence of that, their land, and the land of the Palestinians are both now within the borders of the made up state of Israel.

The world 'creating' Israel gave the Jews a Nation (really it gave them back their nation after thousands of years of being conquered, scattered, oppressed, enslaved etc).

The world should have insisted on the same for the Palestinians and created a recognized and protected nation state for them.

So now the Palestinians are essentially imprisoned on small pockets of what land they have left, and they have no country.

The Israelis have been doing to the Palestinians what other oppressors did to them/keeping them in enclaves, depriving them of advancement, and steadily taking more Palestinian lands from them.

In pre history both groups lived on this land, both have a rightful claim to call it home, each has had at various times its own regions within what we call Israel now.

If you turn this into a religious discussion it all starts with the Prophet Abraham and how he sent one son off into the desert (that sons descendants are the twelve princes of Islam) and I am sure you have heard of the other Sons descendants the twelve tribes of Israel.

Muslims and Jews agree that Abraham is the father of them all.

This is why people say it is thousands of years old, and can never be solved, which of course reinforces that it cannot be resolved by a Religious solution which is why earthly tools political solutions are the only thing that should be discussed in terms of a solution.

Christians/the west tend to side on the side of the Jews on this issue because their beliefs have root in the same story as the Jewish story. The first five books of the old Testament of the Bible are taken from the Jewish scriptures /Tora.

Excuse the gross simplification people.

The main point I want to get across is that in a fair world, the Palestinians would have a freely operating nation state.

HAMAS do not recognize the State of Israel, and they can fark off on that one because that is lie, and Iran can fark off too because that is their lie also.

Equally not recognizing the Palestinians as a people from land in the bounds of Israels borders, and in neighboring pockets is a lie.

 

[Defence]

It is not that complicated really, even though (largely Religiously motivated thinkers) make it so.

The Jews lost their land a long long time ago, and we all know the consequence of that, their land, and the land of the Palestinians are both now within the borders of the made up state of Israel.

The world 'creating' Israel gave the Jews a Nation (really it gave them back their nation after thousands of years of being conquered, scattered, oppressed, enslaved etc).

The world should have insisted on the same for the Palestinians and created a recognized and protected nation state for them.

So now the Palestinians are essentially imprisoned on small pockets of what land they have left, and they have no country.

The Israelis have been doing to the Palestinians what other oppressors did to them/keeping them in enclaves, depriving them of advancement, and steadily taking more Palestinian lands from them.

In pre history both groups lived on this land, both have a rightful claim to call it home, each has had at various times its own regions within what we call Israel now.

If you turn this into a religious discussion it all starts with the Prophet Abraham and how he sent one son off into the desert (that sons descendants are the twelve princes of Islam) and I am sure you have heard of the other Sons descendants the twelve tribes of Israel.

Muslims and Jews agree that Abraham is the father of them all.

This is why people say it is thousands of years old, and can never be solved, which of course reinforces that it cannot be resolved by a Religious solution which is why earthly tools political solutions are the only thing that should be discussed in terms of a solution.

Christians/the west tend to side on the side of the Jews on this issue because their beliefs have root in the same story as the Jewish story. The first five books of the old Testament of the Bible are taken from the Jewish scriptures /Tora.

Sounds pretty complex to me.

 

[mrblonde]

I'm reminded of a line attributed to a citizen from Northern Ireland (qoute from the 70s-80s): "Anyone who thinks they understand what's happening here doesn't know what's going on." Or something similar.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

I'm reminded of a line attributed to a citizen from Northern Ireland (qoute from the 70s-80s): "Anyone who thinks they understand what's happening here doesn't know what's going on." Or something similar.

Parallels to Northen Ireland are apt. They wouldn’t have won any concessions without their rebellion.

 

[Natural Born Warrior]

It is not that complicated really, even though (largely Religiously motivated thinkers) make it so.

The Jews lost their land a long long time ago, and we all know the consequence of that, their land, and the land of the Palestinians are both now within the borders of the made up state of Israel.

The world 'creating' Israel gave the Jews a Nation (really it gave them back their nation after thousands of years of being conquered, scattered, oppressed, enslaved etc).

The world should have insisted on the same for the Palestinians and created a recognized and protected nation state for them.

So now the Palestinians are essentially imprisoned on small pockets of what land they have left, and they have no country.

The Israelis have been doing to the Palestinians what other oppressors did to them/keeping them in enclaves, depriving them of advancement, and steadily taking more Palestinian lands from them.

In pre history both groups lived on this land, both have a rightful claim to call it home, each has had at various times its own regions within what we call Israel now.

If you turn this into a religious discussion it all starts with the Prophet Abraham and how he sent one son off into the desert (that sons descendants are the twelve princes of Islam) and I am sure you have heard of the other Sons descendants the twelve tribes of Israel.

Muslims and Jews agree that Abraham is the father of them all.

This is why people say it is thousands of years old, and can never be solved, which of course reinforces that it cannot be resolved by a Religious solution which is why earthly tools political solutions are the only thing that should be discussed in terms of a solution.

Christians/the west tend to side on the side of the Jews on this issue because their beliefs have root in the same story as the Jewish story. The first five books of the old Testament of the Bible are taken from the Jewish scriptures /Tora.

Excuse the gross simplification people.

The main point I want to get across is that in a fair world, the Palestinians would have a freely operating nation state.

HAMAS do not recognize the State of Israel, and they can fark off on that one because that is lie, and Iran can fark off too because that is their lie also.

Equally not recognizing the Palestinians as a people from land in the bounds of Israels borders, and in neighboring pockets is a lie.

You did a pretty good job there. From a western mindset.

However, the silence of some in this thread to certain parts of the overall conversation and the points you have made is and will be deafening. If you know, you know. It's going to play out now for what it is.

Mark my words. Strap yourself in, we haven't seen anything yet.

 

[Natural Born Warrior]

Parallels to Northen Ireland are apt. They wouldn’t have won any concessions without their rebellion.

No concessions they just lost Gaza and probably all the land. There's about to a lot of refugees.

Maybe that's what they wanted? Maybe there's a greater game afoot here

 

[MrFrankWhite]

No concessions they just lost Gaza and probably all the land. There's about to a lot of refugees.

Maybe that's what they wanted? Maybe there's a greater game afoot here

Or theyd rather die fighting.

A lot of people expressed that sentiment in the Ukraine thread. Whatever it took was the general consus. But now when they see;

1. What actual occupation looks like
2. What actual resistance looks like

and suddenly the sentiment changes. That or racism. Israel has called Palestinians 'human animals'.

When the caged lion bites the circus trainer, who do you root for?

 

[The Warrior Waka]

All i know is, Whatever narrative the western media is pushing into our faces. Is a sure sign that the exact opposite is happening. Ukraine - Russia, Now Israel- Hamas. Whatever side the US backs always seems to turn a puddle into a lake. With the lake full of secrets and ulterior motives we'll never find out about.
Wicked world we live in. Power & money the evil twins at work.

 

[sup42]

Seems a little suss that the world renowned Israeli intelligence wasn’t able to sniff out such major attack by a fairly rogue organisation.

A little too suss if you ask me. Isn’t Netanyahu on trial for some major crimes over there? A common cause to fight the old enemy, stir some National patriotism whilst upholding the traditional strong man image and fear mongering is a great distraction.

a lot of people believe 9/11 was a inside job, now I’m not a conspiracy theorist but I am cynical of all things government and media and whilst I don’t believe it was a inside job I do believe it was allowed to happen by the American government after they had received more than enough credible intelligence that a major threat was at play and choose to ignore it all.

Wasn’t bush polling the lowest popularity figures at the time?

Wasn’t it the same for his old man Bush Snr?

Didn’t Indira Ghandi countless other world leaders embroiled in political scandals or criminal charges while in power create local or international Conflicts to stay in power?

Just saying. Blood is on the hands of both sides here. One for the attack and the other for allowing it to happen.

Prayers for those caught in the middle.

I dunno why people need conspiracies in such cases.

If anyone seriously thinks Israel knowingly decided to make itself look weak and able to be invaded by a much smaller force then they do no understand where Israel sits and how many countries would be emboldened to hit them.

Israels one great strength is the appearance of strength, helped along by having the US as their proxy bodyguards.

This attack by HAMAS shattered the appearance of security in Israel, that is never going to be something any Israeli would deliberately engineer/not on that scale.

Do some people still believe that Pearl harbor was staged by the US? I wish they would get a different pass time.

 

[tajhay]

Mark my words. Strap yourself in, we haven't seen anything yet.

You seem rather excited for the upcoming violence. Is that what the 'good guys' stand for?

 

[Aman 2.0]

I dunno why people need conspiracies in such cases.

If anyone seriously thinks Israel knowingly decided to make itself look weak and able to be invaded by a much smaller force then they do no understand where Israel sits and how many countries would be emboldened to hit them.

Israels one great strength is the appearance of strength, helped along by having the US as their proxy bodyguards.

This attack by HAMAS shattered the appearance of security in Israel, that is never going to be something any Israeli would deliberately engineer/not on that scale.

Do some people still believe that Pearl harbor was staged by the US? I wish they would get a different pass time.

I think you missed the point of my argument.

I’m not talking about Israel, I’m talking about abiut old mate Yahoo and his party who want to stay in power.

 

[Aman 2.0]

I think you missed the point of my argument.

I’m not talking about Israel, I’m talking about abiut old mate Yahoo and his party who want to stay in power.

Also what other way to show just how strong you are by a swift and brutal counter response.

Works for every other country

 

[Rizzah]

You seem rather excited for the upcoming violence. Is that what the 'good guys' stand for?

Think old mate is prepping for the rapture.

 

[Natural Born Warrior]

Or theyd rather die fighting.

A lot of people expressed that sentiment in the Ukraine thread. Whatever it took was the general consus. But now when they see;

1. What actual occupation looks like
2. What actual resistance looks like

and suddenly the sentiment changes. That or racism. Israel has called Palestinians 'human animals'.

When the caged lion bites the circus trainer, who do you root for?

Who is Hamas? Who funds them? Iran right? Hamas is the Hebrew word for terror/to take by terror and aggression.

Talmudic Jews view anybody as a non-Jew as an animal - goyim.

Many Muslims view Jews as the descendants of apes, pigs, and other animals.

Whose the caged lion? The fences are up to stop the Jews being killed. Everytime Israel allows them in they get killed. Time and time again.

12 days ago Israel open its boarders to allow more Palestinian's in to work in Israel and make better money. Look what happened!

 

[Natural Born Warrior]

Think old mate is prepping for the rapture.

Im not looking for fight, please don't push for it or to insult me.

 

[Natural Born Warrior]

You seem rather excited for the upcoming violence. Is that what the 'good guys' stand for?

I'm not the one in Sydney chanting "Gas the Jews"

What's your opinion of that Tajhay?

 

[regenerated borg]

Hmm... Gerald R Ford carrier strike group has arrived ... obviously a deterrent against other Arab states getting itchy trigger fingers.. Wouldn't surprise me if the yanks have deeper Intel on this affair..