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Politics πŸ€‘ Donald Trump

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MaybeTop8 said:
Wiz, now is not the time to become an apologist for this fascism we see growing in front of our eyes.
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I’ve said repeatedly said I don’t agree with thump or what he’s doing.

But I’ve always supported the devil you know in regards to the big dog of the world. Despite lots I don’t agree with, especially at the moment they are fundamentally democratic and capitalist.

I’m thankful we have the US dominating the world rather than China, Japan, ww2 Germany or Russia.
 

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wizard of Tauranga said:
I’ve said repeatedly said I don’t agree with thump or what he’s doing.

But I’ve always supported the devil you know in regards to the big dog of the world. Despite lots I don’t agree with, especially at the moment they are fundamentally democratic and capitalist.

I’m thankful we have the US dominating the world rather than China, Japan, ww2 Germany or Russia.
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They aren't democratic at all. I wouldn't even say capitalist now - run by oligarchs and a pseudo demagogue dictator, backed by the far right.
 

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wizard of Tauranga said:
It’s about scale and deaths. Relativity. It’s indisputable. Yes there are conflicts but nothing like before ww2.

According to chat got:

1. Large-scale wars between major powers have virtually disappeared​

Before 1945
  • Great-power wars were common (Napoleonic Wars, WWI, WWII).
  • WWI and WWII alone killed ~90–100 million people.
  • Major powers regularly fought each other directly.
Since 1945
  • No direct full-scale war between nuclear-armed great powers.
  • The US, USSR/Russia, China, and Western Europe have avoided direct war for 80 years.
  • This is unprecedented in recorded history.
Why this matters:
Great-power wars are by far the deadliest. Preventing them dramatically reduces overall violence.

2. Deaths from war per capita are far lower than in the past​

Even though wars still occur, the proportion of the global population killed by war has collapsed.

  • Ancient and medieval wars often killed 10–30% of entire populations.
  • The 17th-century Thirty Years’ War killed ~20% of Central Europe.
  • WWII killed ~3% of the global population.
  • Since 1945, annual war deaths are typically well under 0.1% of world populationβ€”even during bad years.
This is one of the strongest statistical arguments that the post-WWII era is more peaceful overall.

3. Interstate wars are rarer; conflicts are mostly civil or proxy wars​

Trend shift
  • Wars today are usually:
    • Civil wars
    • Insurgencies
    • Proxy conflicts
  • Classic β€œcountry vs country” wars have declined sharply.
Examples

  • Korea and Vietnam were Cold War proxy wars.
  • Many African and Middle Eastern conflicts are internal, not interstate.
These are still devastatingβ€”but historically, interstate wars were more frequent and more expansive.
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Smaller scale and less deaths still doesn’t mean the most peaceful period ever as was your proclamation
 

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MaybeTop8 said:
They aren't democratic at all. I wouldn't even say capitalist now - run by oligarchs and a pseudo demagogue dictator, backed by the far right.
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You been to the latest flat earth society lately?

Democracy - they still have a range of candidates and free and open elections. Some challenges under Trump but still definitely a democracy.

Capitalism - Joe Public can start a company and compete with few barriers.
 
wizard of Tauranga said:
You been to the latest flat earth society lately?

Democracy - they still have a range of candidates and free and open elections. Some challenges under Trump but still definitely a democracy.

Capitalism - Joe Public can start a company and compete with few barriers.
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A while back you called me a conspiracy theorist and making shit up quite a few times.

I'd like to think you can assimilate what you're actually seeing and hearing and understanding how bad things really are.

The US isn't a true democracy, and is less of a one now than it ever has been before.
 
wizard of Tauranga said:
So which 80 year period ever was more peaceful?
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Ever heard of the paΓ— romana?
What about 10,000 bc no large scale conflicts then.
It's all relative wiz.
Since the end of ww2 we now have nukes. They alone enforce an uneasy peace.
Be real. Get of the democracy soapbox. Take your western white outdated jingoistic views and values and jump into Rudyard Kipling's grave.
 

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wizard of Tauranga said:
You been to the latest flat earth society lately?

Democracy - they still have a range of candidates and free and open elections. Some challenges under Trump but still definitely a democracy.

Capitalism - Joe Public can start a company and compete with few barriers.
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False on both accounts.
Monopolies exist.
So does corruption.
Values are fine.
Do they translate? No.
China's much less corrupt lol
 
MaybeTop8 said:
A while back you called me a conspiracy theorist and making shit up quite a few times.

I'd like to think you can assimilate what you're actually seeing and hearing and understanding how bad things really are.

The US isn't a true democracy, and is less of a one now than it ever has been before.
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Ask chat gpt to clarify it - I’ve already done so:

The United States is a representative democracy and a constitutional republic.
 
BabylonPink said:
Ever heard of the paΓ— romana?
What about 10,000 bc no large scale conflicts then.
It's all relative wiz.
Since the end of ww2 we now have nukes. They alone enforce an uneasy peace.
Be real. Get of the democracy soapbox. Take your western white outdated jingoistic views and values and jump into Rudyard Kipling's grave.
Click to expand...
10,000 years ago? I think most peaceful times in 10,000 years is pretty significant! But I think since civilisation is a better timeframe.

I respect the nukes angle. That is definitely a major factor but as Ukraine has shown, major powers can still be belligerent and I believe it would have been more so without US pressure. L

Interesting on the Roman angle. Yes, they were peaceful within the empire but outside it? Good angle to explore.

Chat got question:
Was the Pax Romana more peaceful than since WW2?

Short answer: it depends what you mean by β€œpeaceful” β€” but overall, since WWII the world has been more peaceful than during the Pax Romana, especially for ordinary people.
 

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wizard of Tauranga said:
So which 80 year period ever was more peaceful?
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Major Contenders for "Most Peaceful"
  • Pax Romana (27 BCE – 180 CE): Roughly 200 years of relative stability, prosperity, and minimal major conflict within the vast Roman Empire, facilitating trade and infrastructure.
  • Pax Britannica (1815 – 1914): A century of relative peace among European great powers after the Napoleonic Wars, marked by British global dominance and increased international trade, despite colonial conflicts
 
Noitall said:
Major Contenders for "Most Peaceful"
  • Pax Romana (27 BCE – 180 CE): Roughly 200 years of relative stability, prosperity, and minimal major conflict within the vast Roman Empire, facilitating trade and infrastructure.
  • Pax Britannica (1815 – 1914): A century of relative peace among European great powers after the Napoleonic Wars, marked by British global dominance and increased international trade, despite colonial conflicts
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And like most peaceful, but peaceful for who.
Like the French revolution was not peaceful. But it was a lot less peaceful for the rich than the poor.
Peaceful for the Americans but for the Middle East and Africa?
Peaceful for the British but for the Indians and Africans?
 

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