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Questioning performance and wether the'yve still got the legs for first grade is fine and understandable imo.....particulary based on this seasons displays.
The doubts and speculation over their personal characters and how some forumers have even convinced themselves to believe that someone they've never met doesnt give a shit about the club or trying actively to sow disharmony behind the scenes just staggers me tbh.
They may be past it, may not, may be in poor form. But these guys have bled and given their all for the club over a long period of time. Tohu might not be able to create the ruck speed or cover ground like he once used to, but lets not forget for several seasons now he's pretty much fucked his body up having to do all the tidy up work to cover some of his lazy arse team mates or the youngsters that everyones crying out for who have still yet to develop that sort of engine......and successive coaches have played him 80 minutes with injury when they know they shouldve rested him cause they could rely on him to lock things down even under fatigue and while others were fading....i have no doubt this has all caught up with him now.
For a supposed prima donna who has his tits in a tangle cause Te Maire is shaping as the go to player now, as Webster and his team mates have stated in his comeback before the Storm game, went to the team and told them dont change what your doing, Te Maire can run the show i'll just play support.......yep clearly the rotten apple behind the scenes
.......please....SJ has too much love for the club to want to bring it down from the inside, and im sure if his body no longer allows him to reach the required standard he wont need to be pushed.The criticisms over the formulated style of game he's playing or wether his game gels with TMM or not are warrented and worthy of debate imo, same as the doubts over Tohu no longer being able to create ruck speed severely lacking his and the teams impact.......and if changes need to be made because of this so be it......but it sure as hell wont be because of ridiculous conspiracy theories or some nasty personal attacks........usually from the uninformed or people who have never laced a boot or played any decent competitive sport in their lives.
tajhay
💙💚❤️
Instead of us hoping SJ gets to the form that made him RLPA player of the year less than a year ago, and just pipped for Dally M, we want him to retire and sound excited at him being injured and out of the team.
Pretty sad indictment of where are our supporters are at.
Pretty sad indictment of where are our supporters are at.
This all feels pretty spot on as usual, mate.
It seems there could be a number of things bubbling under the surface at the club, that finally came to a head possibly in the lead up to this game where it boiled over.
Webby has made some very strange decisions throughout the year, which have appeared very odd and rigid at times with selection, bench use, and style of play.
So as we know it SJ didn't train from after the Manly game through till the pec injury in the Roosters game only doing captain's run each week. Yet we still ran all the attack and kicking through him for that month, despite it being completely worked out in the Dragons game and then onwards. During that run of losses we also had major middle injuries, and rather than bringing anyone up from cup or giving someone like Ale a bigger role. He instead went the route of running our senior middles at the red line minutes wise. Even having unused bench players at times, ala Roache who we saw in the Riff game as being more than capable.
It wasn't until the Riff game when his hand was forced with that we saw a change in game style with TMM taking the reins and the injection of some youthful energy/speed. This followed through into Phins game, and then also into the Cows game with Tohu now back in but on the bench where he should be so that was fine. Now while this run of games weren't perfect they definitely showed where we had been going wrong and what had been missing. It did strike me as odd that he mentioned in one of those post match pressers he didn't know TMM was able to do some of what he was doing.
The Storm game comes along which was always going to be tough, and then adding SJ back into the mix threw another spanner in the works. To me SJ was near invisible in that game, and everything good we did came on the left side anyway. There appeared to be a tug of war at times, and we played far slower and less direct than with the TMM/CHT in for those previous weeks.
Now something has to have boiled over during the week or pre game for the whole squad to just decide today we all aren't going to turn up and let the wheels completely fall off.
When I saw the teamlist on the Tuesday I thought it was Webby playing his weird games and there was no way we line up that way come kick off. He could have picked any number of combinations that wasn't what he did. Ford edge, Walker 13, Tohu prop or Ale in there and Tohu to bench. Laban was there and has proven to be solid also. Kosi another start after the Roosters game, when MGT proved his worth in the Phins game and could have easily played centre with Roger on the wing. In the second 20 of the first half I could swear we had Walker edge, Ford and Jazz props, with CHT as 13, with Egan not a Robson type also in there. That honestly just makes no sense whatsoever. He then held Laban and Ale on the bench till the 55th minute when Roger was sent to the bin.
Alarm bells were ringing in my ears at an ear piercing level watching and after that game. There was all sorts of sniping going on between players throughout the game, and players you can put the house on to give you 100% effort every week without fail were just as bad as the others.
It feels like there is three plausible issues that are bubbling away.
- Junior players showing they are more than worthy of holding spots in grade or being called upon when injuries occur. But instead Webby is going completely different routes which could be frustrating younger players and possibly even senior players who think the juniors are more worthy.
- A group in the team feel that TMM should be running the team, and then possibly others that still think it should be SJ.
- The AFB situation has been gathering steam throughout the season and is now starting to cause major issues in the playing group.
Tomorrow will be a very interesting list, but given what we've seen from Webby I'm not expecting much change. SJ out with injury, TMM handed the keys again with CHT at 6. Barnett will be back on the left edge after 18th man on Weds. DWZ back in for Kosi on the right. Tohu back to the bench with Walker starting at lock. If he somehow manages to get the rise out of them and we win both games with TMM into the bye, then it becomes a very tricky situation with SJ. But I'm not sure if much can change unless he really digs into that loss, and gets to the bottom of what is bubbling away with the miriad of possible issues.
Just some rambling thoughts anyway, not sure how coherent they are.
I always look forward to reading your posts mate, you are very articulate in your writing
There seems to be deep disharmony within the squad. Forget even about the performances of late, just look at the body language on the field: AFB blowing-up at someone - perhaps Tohu - when the review was unsuccessful; Egan remonstrating angrily at Walker. More concerning, Michael Burgess today quoted a Warriors supporter on Facebook who was at the match and said he couldn't believe the way the team was sniping at each other behind the posts after the Titans scored their first try.
Something has happened to trigger fractures and this has completely destroyed the resilience that was built during 2023. The players just don't seem to care enough right now to put in that extra effort in to cover for their teammates.
As we've all seen, these issues are most pronounced when the senior players are on the park. Yeah, they're old and slow. But I think this is only half the issue. The more important half is what none of us are privy too.
Webby's in a bind. He went all in this season to win the comp with an aging roster, the addition of two new players on longer deals than they deserve, and the extension of another who is clearly past it. Now he's stuck with them all, unless they walk.
At the same time, his risk averse strategy has meant that he's continued steadfastly with the same out of form players week after week because they're more experienced and might come good at some point. Being such a new head coach, perhaps he's also worried about the repercussions that losing the senior playing group might have on his own future (and with good reason: I was told that rebellions from Warrior senior players in the past resulted in the demise of Matty Elliott and Alex Corvo).
By staying loyal to a fault, Webby has perhaps created more internal friction with the young ambitious players by giving them the slightest taste of NRL (only when forced to through injury), then dumping them after they shine. Zion gets picked for a game off the bench, kills it with high energy and enthusiasm and is dropped. MGT is selected and plays with determination and aggression. He's been smashing it all season in NSW Cup. He gets dumped. DWZ is suspended. Who does Webby draw upon? Kosi ... again! The perennial failure at NRL level. Laban shows great potential for someone so young. He's solid every time he gets on the field. Barnett is called up to Origin. Webby ignores him and instead shifts Walker to second row.
It just seems to be such poor player management. All from a guy who prides himself on his people skills.
Webby doesn't drop players. He's Mr Nice Guy. That'll get him so far, until it doesn't. The worse thing for a leader when there's player unrest is to be a nice guy because it generally calls for really tough decisions to be made and people pleasers don't like rocking the boat. When you're winning, you can be everyone's mate. When you're losing, you need to stand up and demand accountability. Montoya said recently that he's never heard Webby give the players a spray. The moment I heard that I knew he was in trouble. Every great coach has a spray or two in them. They have to so that the players understand they aren't the boss.
If nothing else, the massacre from the Titans has unmasked what seemed to be percolating just below the surface all season. I hope Webby finds something in him this week to get to the bottom of it all.
Something has happened to trigger fractures and this has completely destroyed the resilience that was built during 2023. The players just don't seem to care enough right now to put in that extra effort in to cover for their teammates.
As we've all seen, these issues are most pronounced when the senior players are on the park. Yeah, they're old and slow. But I think this is only half the issue. The more important half is what none of us are privy too.
Webby's in a bind. He went all in this season to win the comp with an aging roster, the addition of two new players on longer deals than they deserve, and the extension of another who is clearly past it. Now he's stuck with them all, unless they walk.
At the same time, his risk averse strategy has meant that he's continued steadfastly with the same out of form players week after week because they're more experienced and might come good at some point. Being such a new head coach, perhaps he's also worried about the repercussions that losing the senior playing group might have on his own future (and with good reason: I was told that rebellions from Warrior senior players in the past resulted in the demise of Matty Elliott and Alex Corvo).
By staying loyal to a fault, Webby has perhaps created more internal friction with the young ambitious players by giving them the slightest taste of NRL (only when forced to through injury), then dumping them after they shine. Zion gets picked for a game off the bench, kills it with high energy and enthusiasm and is dropped. MGT is selected and plays with determination and aggression. He's been smashing it all season in NSW Cup. He gets dumped. DWZ is suspended. Who does Webby draw upon? Kosi ... again! The perennial failure at NRL level. Laban shows great potential for someone so young. He's solid every time he gets on the field. Barnett is called up to Origin. Webby ignores him and instead shifts Walker to second row.
It just seems to be such poor player management. All from a guy who prides himself on his people skills.
Webby doesn't drop players. He's Mr Nice Guy. That'll get him so far, until it doesn't. The worse thing for a leader when there's player unrest is to be a nice guy because it generally calls for really tough decisions to be made and people pleasers don't like rocking the boat. When you're winning, you can be everyone's mate. When you're losing, you need to stand up and demand accountability. Montoya said recently that he's never heard Webby give the players a spray. The moment I heard that I knew he was in trouble. Every great coach has a spray or two in them. They have to so that the players understand they aren't the boss.
If nothing else, the massacre from the Titans has unmasked what seemed to be percolating just below the surface all season. I hope Webby finds something in him this week to get to the bottom of it all.
You’re right - but defending the impatience of some fans for a second, since the Cleary days it’s been 13 years of the same shit.
New coach, star recruits, new game plan, new long term vision for the club, yadda yadda yadda.
Same results aside from 2018 and 2023.
Last season was a culmination of a lot of things - finally having the team back home for a full year, new branding and game day vibes, the club improved their social media marketing and branding, and we were winning behind a new coach who seemed to come in and turn things around from the post-SK/Brown years overnight.
One game away from the GF. Selling out games, “up the wahs” movement, etc.
But this season has been a dud so far. Up and down performances, last years hero’s now this years villians, etc.
The feeling after the titans game just reminds us of those struggling years - things were supposed to be on the up but, once again after feeling the highs of 2023 it feels we’ve regressed back to the mean.
And while I still believe in Webby, and the long term vision for the club moving forward, it’s just a shame that we’ve regressed as we have this year. Especially with the table being as close as it is, we just had to build upon last year and we SHOULD be on top as comp favourites right now.
But instead it’s much of the same. Hopefully just a bump on this new road we’re on but the feelings bring back trauma of all the dud years we’ve become accustomed too.
We have a lot of young talent that we should be looking towards. Love the SJs and Tohus, love RTS but something isnt working here. The game is faster and we’re playing a step behind.
That 3 game win streak showed how we should be playing. But can we play that style with the aging incumbents?
Webby needs to make the tough calls now. The club and the nation are behind him.
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Warriors fans always looking for miracles, the quick fix, but hey we're the ones with the most loyalty, staying power, loyalty right?
Gimme a break! Everyone needs to get off their pseudo supercoach high horse and give the man a chance.
It won't happen overnight but hey, we're the patient ones (or so we say) waiting for a premiership etc etc.
Jeez.
Gimme a break! Everyone needs to get off their pseudo supercoach high horse and give the man a chance.
It won't happen overnight but hey, we're the patient ones (or so we say) waiting for a premiership etc etc.
Jeez.
Not even worth talking tactics etc- we conceded 66 points ffs- thats effort.
I’ve been to a lot of nrl games and never seen a softer defensive effort- I still can’t believe what I witnessed- it was putrid - don’t know how they could look each other in the eye after that.
I took my son and his friend and they had tears in their eyes walking out- I actually saw quite a few kids crying- the players dishing that up was disgraceful - they should be ashamed of themselves.
The smart supporters left at halftime (and there was plenty of them).
My boys still actually wanted to hang around to try get signatures etc. I said- no way they’re hanging around to sign autographs after that hiding- they’ve been humiliated- they’ll be straight back to the sheds to get a blast from the coach- well I wake up to see them on social media smiling for selfies and shit…. Please…. Have u no shame? Has the celebrity got to them? You’re not influences- your footy players ffs- play some farkin footy.
I’m convinced there’s something bigger to all this- there was a lot of players spraying each other out there- afb in particular looked disgusted with some of his teammates but at the same time the guy ran for 70m….
It’s not a happy camp- that’s clear to see.
The only silver lining I can see is that our biggest issue- effort- is one that can be fixed quickly if everyone is willing to get on board.
Barney and dwz are 2 guys u know will lay it all on the line- there were some guys yesterday who really didn’t look like they wanted to be there- gonna be very interesting to see how they respond- because that was rock bottom.
Shame on them.
I’ve been to a lot of nrl games and never seen a softer defensive effort- I still can’t believe what I witnessed- it was putrid - don’t know how they could look each other in the eye after that.
I took my son and his friend and they had tears in their eyes walking out- I actually saw quite a few kids crying- the players dishing that up was disgraceful - they should be ashamed of themselves.
The smart supporters left at halftime (and there was plenty of them).
My boys still actually wanted to hang around to try get signatures etc. I said- no way they’re hanging around to sign autographs after that hiding- they’ve been humiliated- they’ll be straight back to the sheds to get a blast from the coach- well I wake up to see them on social media smiling for selfies and shit…. Please…. Have u no shame? Has the celebrity got to them? You’re not influences- your footy players ffs- play some farkin footy.
I’m convinced there’s something bigger to all this- there was a lot of players spraying each other out there- afb in particular looked disgusted with some of his teammates but at the same time the guy ran for 70m….
It’s not a happy camp- that’s clear to see.
The only silver lining I can see is that our biggest issue- effort- is one that can be fixed quickly if everyone is willing to get on board.
Barney and dwz are 2 guys u know will lay it all on the line- there were some guys yesterday who really didn’t look like they wanted to be there- gonna be very interesting to see how they respond- because that was rock bottom.
Shame on them.
I don't think his use of Walker in the second row, Kosi on the wing, or the bench forwards getting 10 minutes less than some would like was reason for losing by 60 points to the Titans.
Something was severely off yesterday. Attitude and effort was completely gone, there must be something going on the sheds we don't know about. Is that Webbys fault? We don't know the issue there, but I personally don't think Webby is the cause, more likely players vs players IMO. Webster identified AFB earlier and sat him out, I don't know why he wouldn't do the same with others if disharmony is there.
I'm backing Webster to sort it out - this is the biggest week in his coaching career.
Something was severely off yesterday. Attitude and effort was completely gone, there must be something going on the sheds we don't know about. Is that Webbys fault? We don't know the issue there, but I personally don't think Webby is the cause, more likely players vs players IMO. Webster identified AFB earlier and sat him out, I don't know why he wouldn't do the same with others if disharmony is there.
I'm backing Webster to sort it out - this is the biggest week in his coaching career.
What i will add is that before the game a number of team selections just didnt sit right with me.
For the life of me couldnt understand why you'd move Dylan to an edge. Its been his ability to create ruck speed in the middle thats had a major bearing on our improved performances. Isolating him on an edge where he hasnt been running those lines or building those combinations seemed crazy to me as we pretty much surrendered a strength for no gain.
I wish Webby would show a bit more faith in Laban. He couldve at the least played a role there. Sure he hasnt really torn sides apart but at the same time for a young bloke he hasnt been overawed either, or making a shit tonne of errors.....and it wouldve meant keeping Walker in the role thats been helping us win games!!!!
Kosi and Roger on an edge? Blind Freddy could tell u this would be the edge to target. Kosi up against one of the quickest wingers in the comp? And to make matters worse his inside centre is still learning the nuances of edge defence and SJs been getting targetted all season. I know all the talk was on the speed of the Titans outside backs, but if you control the ruck speed you by and large negate this.......clearly we didnt and those speedsters were just having a field day.
Had concerns last week over the SJ/Te Maire combo and its obviously still not gelling. If Te Maire is the main organiser as he was last week then really you need the supporting half to have a point of difference. Usually thats through a robust or direct running game. Clearly SJ isnt the running threat anymore, he's an organiser.....if youve got someone else doing the organising sad to say then there's not much else being bought to the table. A major philosiphy change on how they play was always going to take time but they've pretty much run out of that now. As much of an SJ fan as i am id say that the next game against the Broncs has to be a statement game.
In saying that tho when u concede 66 points (FMD!) none of these in isolation can be attributed to "THE" reason for that debacle. Cause across the board we were just terrible Jazz, Egan, Charnze.....everyone was just poor......and unfortunately im going to have to include some of the things our coach did in that.
For the life of me couldnt understand why you'd move Dylan to an edge. Its been his ability to create ruck speed in the middle thats had a major bearing on our improved performances. Isolating him on an edge where he hasnt been running those lines or building those combinations seemed crazy to me as we pretty much surrendered a strength for no gain.
I wish Webby would show a bit more faith in Laban. He couldve at the least played a role there. Sure he hasnt really torn sides apart but at the same time for a young bloke he hasnt been overawed either, or making a shit tonne of errors.....and it wouldve meant keeping Walker in the role thats been helping us win games!!!!
Kosi and Roger on an edge? Blind Freddy could tell u this would be the edge to target. Kosi up against one of the quickest wingers in the comp? And to make matters worse his inside centre is still learning the nuances of edge defence and SJs been getting targetted all season. I know all the talk was on the speed of the Titans outside backs, but if you control the ruck speed you by and large negate this.......clearly we didnt and those speedsters were just having a field day.
Had concerns last week over the SJ/Te Maire combo and its obviously still not gelling. If Te Maire is the main organiser as he was last week then really you need the supporting half to have a point of difference. Usually thats through a robust or direct running game. Clearly SJ isnt the running threat anymore, he's an organiser.....if youve got someone else doing the organising sad to say then there's not much else being bought to the table. A major philosiphy change on how they play was always going to take time but they've pretty much run out of that now. As much of an SJ fan as i am id say that the next game against the Broncs has to be a statement game.
In saying that tho when u concede 66 points (FMD!) none of these in isolation can be attributed to "THE" reason for that debacle. Cause across the board we were just terrible Jazz, Egan, Charnze.....everyone was just poor......and unfortunately im going to have to include some of the things our coach did in that.
I get we are emotional and lashing out but this is a stretch.
If we don’t blood the youth our goals of being a development club goes out the window. We will lose them all.
Morale is my specialty. One of the most underrated yet important tenets of warfare. If TEAM morale is high, unhappy individuals get ostracised. If team morale is low, unhappy individuals poison the group.
Team morale is built upon success and the belief that it can be achieved. Its not built on giving a bloke game time so he doesnt cry like a bitch. The only reason a team is formed is to achieve a task.
Andrew Webster is still the right person to be our coach but he needs to learn from his part in the titans game.
He needs to figure out how to get inside players heads so that they don’t ever turn up with that kind of attitude again.
But he also needs to learn from his selection and substitution mistakes as well. At one stage our middle forwards were CHT, Jazz and Ford. That was always going to get overpowered. It doesn’t excuse the lack of effort but it definitely contributed to the result
He needs to figure out how to get inside players heads so that they don’t ever turn up with that kind of attitude again.
But he also needs to learn from his selection and substitution mistakes as well. At one stage our middle forwards were CHT, Jazz and Ford. That was always going to get overpowered. It doesn’t excuse the lack of effort but it definitely contributed to the result
That was worse than embarrassing. Fortunately I didn't see the game and with recurring PTSD problems as far back as '95 I probably don't want to.
My daughter and 7 year old grandson were at the game and she texted me halfway through to say he had taken off his warriors jersey and hit it under his seat. Kid will be scarred for life with that performance.
Like a lot on here, I thinj the writing was on the wall at team selection. We have one of the better ball playing locks in the game and the coach decides he should be in the second row. Big Ed was/is a liability, RTS is NOT a centre and SJ is either injured again or has thrown his toys out over having to share the half duties with TMM. Tohu is long past it and Jazz is not far behind. The bench selection and use is abysmal. These young guys are capable of playing 60+, not 3 minutes at the end.
I don't think it's a hard fix, bring back the youth and play people where they will have the most effect. The model is already there from the Panthers and Dolphins games.
The coaching this year is turning Kearneyesque, hopefully after that drivel, the owner and CEO will be asking some hard questions
My daughter and 7 year old grandson were at the game and she texted me halfway through to say he had taken off his warriors jersey and hit it under his seat. Kid will be scarred for life with that performance.
Like a lot on here, I thinj the writing was on the wall at team selection. We have one of the better ball playing locks in the game and the coach decides he should be in the second row. Big Ed was/is a liability, RTS is NOT a centre and SJ is either injured again or has thrown his toys out over having to share the half duties with TMM. Tohu is long past it and Jazz is not far behind. The bench selection and use is abysmal. These young guys are capable of playing 60+, not 3 minutes at the end.
I don't think it's a hard fix, bring back the youth and play people where they will have the most effect. The model is already there from the Panthers and Dolphins games.
The coaching this year is turning Kearneyesque, hopefully after that drivel, the owner and CEO will be asking some hard questions
Tohu was bad, SJ was bad, but what really baffles me is the selection of Walker at 12. Has he ever played in the back row? Why start now when he's been so valuable through the middle - it just made no sense.
It made even less sense to leave him there for so long. Why only bring on Laban when we were already down by about 40? What's that going to do for him?
It made even less sense to leave him there for so long. Why only bring on Laban when we were already down by about 40? What's that going to do for him?
