General Tactical innovations

[Canonball]

What major tactical innovations do we like, what would we like to see?

The whole short drop kick restart has become so ingrained they changed the rules around it (not in a good way imo), yet I'm not sure the Warriors (and SJ in particular) has been given enough credit for re-introducing it - I remember it being very unusual before SJ started running the numbers and regularly kicking it short for a potential regather.

Looking at common in game situations I'd like to see two runners stationed out the back during an 'arm-wrestle' period. There's always space between the advancing defensive line and the fullback (or wing) waiting on the high kick. What if you had two runners in close proximity so when that first tackle is made (and therefore collapsing the straight line of defenders giving the the ball-carrier an option of a short offload to the second runner ? I think this would change the defensive patterns quite substantially, as you'd need a second line to account for the second runner... I'd like to see it.

 

[Defence]

What major tactical innovations do we like, what would we like to see?

The whole short drop kick restart has become so ingrained they changed the rules around it (not in a good way imo), yet I'm not sure the Warriors (and SJ in particular) has been given enough credit for re-introducing it - I remember it being very unusual before SJ started running the numbers and regularly kicking it short for a potential regather.

Looking at common in game situations I'd like to see two runners stationed out the back during an 'arm-wrestle' period. There's always space between the advancing defensive line and the fullback (or wing) waiting on the high kick. What if you had two runners in close proximity so when that first tackle is made (and therefore collapsing the straight line of defenders giving the the ball-carrier an option of a short offload to the second runner ? I think this would change the defensive patterns quite substantially, as you'd need a second line to account for the second runner... I'd like to see it.

Using your short drop out example- I’m waiting for a team to start lifting a player like they do in union for drop outs.

 

[Beastmode]

Interesting thread, but I don’t think we’ve earned the right to be innovative when we struggle to get the basics right - catching, kicking, tackling.

I know Webby talked about RTS taking a roaming centre role, injecting himself when he sees an opportunity. In theory sounds innovative, in practice not that easy.

Same with the “diamond” attack with everyone including myself creaming over it. We haven’t been able to do it since as teams have done their homework on how to defend.

To be innovative you need the players with the right skill sets to execute it. When confidence is low. You put the innovation away and get back to basics

 

[Canonball]

Interesting thread, but I don’t think we’ve earned the right to be innovative when we struggle to get the basics right - catching, kicking, tackling.

I know Webby talked about RTS taking a roaming centre role, injecting himself when he sees an opportunity. In theory sounds innovative, in practice not that easy.

Same with the “diamond” attack with everyone including myself creaming over it. We haven’t been able to do it since as teams have done their homework on how to defend.

To be innovative you need the players with the right skill sets to execute it. When confidence is low. You put the innovation away and get back to basics

Fair enough, though I was talking more generally across the comp

 

[Beastmode]

Fair enough, though I was talking more generally across the comp

If you look at the top teams - Storm & Penrith - I don’t see them doing anything fancy.

They seem to just execute the basics really well. Innovation is always high risk. Storm love to bend the rules like they did with the deliberate wrestling tackling styles to kill time which are now all outlawed.

I think the Warriors contribution has been the circle breathing during breaks. It’s looked kinda cringy when we first started back in 2018(?) but I see quite a few teams picking this up. Calm the nerves. The prop wing tactic ie size over speed may have come from Manu Vatuvei?
I think the short drop outs are a fairly new thing which we did quite frequently.

Two tackle high and third man in to take out the legs isn’t really innovative but I remember back in the day when it wasn’t done..

 

[giffy]

Would love to see more 20/40 attempts taken. Hard to tell on the broadcast without seeing the full field but when you’re coming off your line and the defence is aggressively crowding the attacking team, there must be space out back for a cheeky attempt

 

[Teets]

Warriors weren't the first to use it, but they certainly mastered and popularized the edge/centre double lead play.

Such a basic variation of your stock standard roll/sweep surprised it took so long for a team to make it a regular go to.

Probably explains a bit why everyone defends it a bit better this year, heaps of them are using it!

I always like Kikau rolling behind a centre lead too, nice basic variation that gets a rampaging Kiks downhill against a smaller defender. Surprised more teams don't run that for their big skilled backrowers.

 

[Tookey 2.0]

I don't have specific answers, but when you get to the grind of a game, and the opposition kick to us and we take 4 or 5 one out hit ups while our players are getting back onside really shits me.
The defence is bunched up and can essentially run out of the line and put a hit on you, knowing very few players are going to try something different.

If you do that for 3 or 4 sets you get fatigued and it usually leads to an error, which compounds the situation.
Unpredictability would be key here, but damned if I know the answer

 

[Beastmode]

Playing your 4th bench spot a max 5mins (if at all) is a Webby master piece.

 

[SJ2k]

Playing your 4th bench spot a max 5mins (if at all) is a Webby master piece.

Not to derail the thread, but I agree, Webby needs to focus on his bench before worrying about anything more advanced.

 

[Damo]

Playing your 4th bench spot a max 5mins (if at all) is a Webby master piece.

Plenty of teams do this, why is anyone surprised? Storm, Roosters, Penrith, Phins and more all regularly have a low minute option that is there in case of injury or due to having big minute forwards (which we have plenty of).

Just from last round
Bulldogs Patolo: 8 mins.
Sea Eagles Chan Kum Tong: 10 mins.
Titans Liu: 15 mins
Panthers Toelau: 19 mins
Phins Fuller: 9 mins
Storm Fa'alogo: 4 mins
Roosters S. Smith: 10 mins

 

[Beastmode]

Plenty of teams do this, why is anyone surprised? Storm, Roosters, Penrith, Phins and more all regularly have a low minute option that is there in case of injury or due to having big minute forwards (which we have plenty of).

Just from last round
Bulldogs Patolo: 8 mins.
Sea Eagles Chan Kum Tong: 10 mins.
Titans Liu: 15 mins
Panthers Toelau: 19 mins
Phins Fuller: 9 mins
Storm Fa'alogo: 4 mins
Roosters S. Smith: 10 mins

Well sticking to the thread

Here’s a chance for Webby to be innovative and use the 4th bench option better

I reckon 3 hybrid utilitied who can cover both forwards and backs and one specialist prop… easy peasy… all min 20mins to share work load … 20mins they go helter skelter - not rocket science !

 

[Dlenai]

Spencer Leniu, a proper impact prop off the bench with immense leg speed & a screw loose to frontload energy for 20 solid minutes is something i love seeing

Seeing him leaving the QLD pack in disarray after his charges creates so much momentum & is probably not a new tactic but I can't think of many props recently that creates so much mayhem once they'e on the field.

I want Zyon Mai'uu to be that sort of player, he showed glimpses of it during his debut against the Titans on Anzac day

 

[Bay39er]

A good tactical innovation for the Wahs would be to score more points than the opposition!

 

[Teets]

I'd love to see us adapt an early kick into our game.

DCE has killed us with momentum changing early tackle kicks so many times but we never really use it.

Especially when it's wet at Mt Smart.

- Less chance of an error coming out of yardage.
- less kick pressure on our half
- More chance of finding grass with the kick/isolate their FB in a corner.
- Their winger has to sprint back for the tackle 2 carry taking energy out of their hit up.

 

[ZoeyRivera]

I'd love to see us adapt an early kick into our game.

DCE has killed us with momentum changing early tackle kicks so many times but we never really use it.

Especially when it's wet at Mt Smart.

- Less chance of an error coming out of yardage.
- less kick pressure on our half
- More chance of finding grass with the kick/isolate their FB in a corner.
- Their winger has to sprint back for the tackle 2 carry taking energy out of their hit up.


Great ideas! The short drop kick has indeed changed the game. Your two-runners strategy could create new opportunities by exploiting gaps in defensive lines. It might force defenses to adapt quickly, adding an exciting dynamic to the game. Completing an essay on time was a challenge, so I decided to pay for one at https://academized.com/pay-for-essay The service provided me with a well-crafted essay that was tailored to my specific requirements. The writer was professional and knowledgeable, delivering a paper that was free of errors and plagiarism. The process was straightforward, and the essay was delivered on time. I highly recommend this service for students who need reliable help with their essays.

I am just posting so I can keep track of this thread.

Edit: No new update?

 

[run_it_str8_again]

Interesting thread, but I don’t think we’ve earned the right to be innovative when we struggle to get the basics right - catching, kicking, tackling.

I know Webby talked about RTS taking a roaming centre role, injecting himself when he sees an opportunity. In theory sounds innovative, in practice not that easy.

Same with the “diamond” attack with everyone including myself creaming over it. We haven’t been able to do it since as teams have done their homework on how to defend.

To be innovative you need the players with the right skill sets to execute it. When confidence is low. You put the innovation away and get back to basics

I watched a 2003 us vs Raiders. I watched Toopi running a kick return I think and he ran at the line but purposely went at a prop, stepped him and made 50 metres. That individual brilliance is something I'd like to see