NRL Round Discussion NRL Round 6, 2025 Discussion

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roguei said:
Ah then i guess i fundmentally disagree. I think the development have gotten a fair deal here. They get preimerships at a much higher rate and are able to preform at that stage for longer than others. Not sure what more they can ask for here, that would not result in said club(s) dominating for longer leading to a less competitive competition.
Click to expand...

An arguement that development clubs get permierships is a bit absurd.

Penrith being a major outlier.

History would suggest clubs with money get premierships, even in the salary cap era.

At present there's no incentive for clubs to develop talent, and that's to the detriment of the competition.
 
Makasene said:
An arguement that development clubs get permierships is a bit absurd.

Penrith being a major outlier.

History would suggest clubs with money get premierships, even in the salary cap era.

At present there's no incentive for clubs to develop talent, and that's to the detriment of the competition.
Click to expand...
Fair i give you Bulldogs, Roosters, Tigers and Dragons. All of which seem to buy talent to win there permierships, although it looks like roosters are moving into a devlopment house with there acquistions of a lot of highschool pipelines across NZ and AUS recently.

I'd aruge a devlopment club is one that currently has 30% or more of there 17 being juniors from that club.

Otherwise we have:
2020-2024 Panthers, 17 out of 21 came from the junior system.
2016 Sharks just misses out with only 5 out of 17. But i'd aruge Gallen and Holmes won them 2016.
2014 Rabbitohs 6 out of 17 were juniors. This does fit the definition but inglis and burgees won them that final, and those 2 are not juniors/debuts for the rabbits.
2011 Sea Eagles, 6 out 17 were juniors.
2008 Sea Eagles, 6 out 17 were juniors
2006 Broncos, 7-8 out of 17 were juniors.
2003 Panthers 8 out of 17 were juniors.
2001 Knights, 11 out of 17 were juniors.
2000 Broncos, 7 out of 17 were juniors.

Ones that were not. Roosters (2002, 2013, 2018, 2019), Bulldogs (2004), Tigers (2005), Storm (2007, 2009, 2017, 2020), Dragons (2010), Cowboys (2015).

So 12 out of 24 times a "devlopment" club has won. Of those non devlopment clubs, storm and roosters take the cake as i think you could make an arugment that the bulldogs, tigers and dragons all were filled with players who have been at those clubs for a very long time. Roosters are 100% brought, and are a great repersentation of this version of a club.
But the storm did not "buy" a lot of there best players... They did not sign Slater, Smith, Cronk, Inglis when they were big names or anything. They devloped those players into who they became IMO.

So therefore i think you're left with:
Roosters (2002, 2013, 2018, 2019), Bulldogs (2004), Tigers (2005), Dragons (2010), Cowboys (2015) being brought.
2000-2001, 2003, 2006-2009, 2011, 2014, 2016-2017, 2020-2024.

To summerize,
> An arguement that development clubs get permierships is a bit absurd
I think its a fair argument.
> Penrith being a major outlier.
The ratio to homegrown juniors to fulltime players is yes. But i think a "devlopment" side has 30% at least of your own juniors or debuts playing.
> History would suggest clubs with money get premierships, even in the salary cap era.
7 out of 24 being brought seems like a alright ratio to me personally.
> At present there's no incentive for clubs to develop talent, and that's to the detriment of the competition.
I really don't think thats the case just based off of ratio of "brought" to "bred" premierships here. Unless of course you are the roosters.


I cavet above with; it feels a bit silly just doing premierships. What you really need is avarage ladder position for a real test of impact, as there is never just one active "devlopment" club.
 
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Looks like the Panthers have finally succumbed to the loss of players. JFH and Luai a bridge to far? The difference in defense from the last few years to now is huge. Were averaging around 16 points conceded to now around 30 per game. They can't make the 8 with that stat but will probably end up being that team in the back half of the season that spoils other teams chances.
 
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Inruin said:
Looks like the Panthers have finally succumbed to the loss of players. JFH and Luai a bridge to far? The difference in defense from the last few years to now is huge. Were averaging around 16 points conceded to now around 30 per game. They can't make the 8 with that stat but will probably end up being that team in the back half of the season that spoils other teams chances.
Click to expand...
It's not a coincidence that JFH leaves and they leak points and our defence becomes solid.
 
roguei said:
Fair i give you Bulldogs, Roosters, Tigers and Dragons. All of which seem to buy talent to win there permierships, although it looks like roosters are moving into a devlopment house with there acquistions of a lot of highschool pipelines across NZ and AUS recently.

I'd aruge a devlopment club is one that currently has 30% or more of there 17 being juniors from that club.

Otherwise we have:
2020-2024 Panthers, 17 out of 21 came from the junior system.
2016 Sharks just misses out with only 5 out of 17. But i'd aruge Gallen and Holmes won them 2016.
2014 Rabbitohs 6 out of 17 were juniors. This does fit the definition but inglis and burgees won them that final, and those 2 are not juniors/debuts for the rabbits.
2011 Sea Eagles, 6 out 17 were juniors.
2008 Sea Eagles, 6 out 17 were juniors
2006 Broncos, 7-8 out of 17 were juniors.
2003 Panthers 8 out of 17 were juniors.
2001 Knights, 11 out of 17 were juniors.
2000 Broncos, 7 out of 17 were juniors.

Ones that were not. Roosters (2002, 2013, 2018, 2019), Bulldogs (2004), Tigers (2005), Storm (2007, 2009, 2017, 2020), Dragons (2010), Cowboys (2015).

So 12 out of 24 times a "devlopment" club has won. Of those non devlopment clubs, storm and roosters take the cake as i think you could make an arugment that the bulldogs, tigers and dragons all were filled with players who have been at those clubs for a very long time. Roosters are 100% brought, and are a great repersentation of this version of a club.
But the storm did not "buy" a lot of there best players... They did not sign Slater, Smith, Cronk, Inglis when they were big names or anything. They devloped those players into who they became IMO.

So therefore i think you're left with:
Roosters (2002, 2013, 2018, 2019), Bulldogs (2004), Tigers (2005), Dragons (2010), Cowboys (2015) being brought.
2000-2001, 2003, 2006-2009, 2011, 2014, 2016-2017, 2020-2024.

To summerize,
> An arguement that development clubs get permierships is a bit absurd
I think its a fair argument.
> Penrith being a major outlier.
The ratio to homegrown juniors to fulltime players is yes. But i think a "devlopment" side has 30% at least of your own juniors or debuts playing.
> History would suggest clubs with money get premierships, even in the salary cap era.
7 out of 24 being brought seems like a alright ratio to me personally.
> At present there's no incentive for clubs to develop talent, and that's to the detriment of the competition.
I really don't think thats the case just based off of ratio of "brought" to "bred" premierships here. Unless of course you are the roosters.


I cavet above with; it feels a bit silly just doing premierships. What you really need is avarage ladder position for a real test of impact, as there is never just one active "devlopment" club.
Click to expand...

Good post.

Guess where I'm coming from is I support dispersment of talent.

Just seems the Panthers have been guttered for 3 or 4 straight years and what you see now is a result of that.
 
Inruin said:
Looks like the Panthers have finally succumbed to the loss of players. JFH and Luai a bridge to far? The difference in defense from the last few years to now is huge. Were averaging around 16 points conceded to now around 30 per game. They can't make the 8 with that stat but will probably end up being that team in the back half of the season that spoils other teams chances.
Click to expand...

Yea seems very unlikely they will make the 8.

But they will get something together this season, even if just 3 - 4 weeks after origin.
 
Makasene said:
Good post.

Guess where I'm coming from is I support dispersment of talent.

Just seems the Panthers have been guttered for 3 or 4 straight years and what you see now is a result of that.
Click to expand...
Imagine if Broncos had stopped them in the third year, how different the NRL landscape would be. Kevie still at suncorp, madge at NSW and Panthers in the doldrums. No one talking about is the dynasty over.
 
roguei said:
Fair i give you Bulldogs, Roosters, Tigers and Dragons. All of which seem to buy talent to win there permierships, although it looks like roosters are moving into a devlopment house with there acquistions of a lot of highschool pipelines across NZ and AUS recently.

I'd aruge a devlopment club is one that currently has 30% or more of there 17 being juniors from that club.

Otherwise we have:
2020-2024 Panthers, 17 out of 21 came from the junior system.
2016 Sharks just misses out with only 5 out of 17. But i'd aruge Gallen and Holmes won them 2016.
2014 Rabbitohs 6 out of 17 were juniors. This does fit the definition but inglis and burgees won them that final, and those 2 are not juniors/debuts for the rabbits.
2011 Sea Eagles, 6 out 17 were juniors.
2008 Sea Eagles, 6 out 17 were juniors
2006 Broncos, 7-8 out of 17 were juniors.
2003 Panthers 8 out of 17 were juniors.
2001 Knights, 11 out of 17 were juniors.
2000 Broncos, 7 out of 17 were juniors.

Ones that were not. Roosters (2002, 2013, 2018, 2019), Bulldogs (2004), Tigers (2005), Storm (2007, 2009, 2017, 2020), Dragons (2010), Cowboys (2015).

So 12 out of 24 times a "devlopment" club has won. Of those non devlopment clubs, storm and roosters take the cake as i think you could make an arugment that the bulldogs, tigers and dragons all were filled with players who have been at those clubs for a very long time. Roosters are 100% brought, and are a great repersentation of this version of a club.
But the storm did not "buy" a lot of there best players... They did not sign Slater, Smith, Cronk, Inglis when they were big names or anything. They devloped those players into who they became IMO.

So therefore i think you're left with:
Roosters (2002, 2013, 2018, 2019), Bulldogs (2004), Tigers (2005), Dragons (2010), Cowboys (2015) being brought.
2000-2001, 2003, 2006-2009, 2011, 2014, 2016-2017, 2020-2024.

To summerize,
> An arguement that development clubs get permierships is a bit absurd
I think its a fair argument.
> Penrith being a major outlier.
The ratio to homegrown juniors to fulltime players is yes. But i think a "devlopment" side has 30% at least of your own juniors or debuts playing.
> History would suggest clubs with money get premierships, even in the salary cap era.
7 out of 24 being brought seems like a alright ratio to me personally.
> At present there's no incentive for clubs to develop talent, and that's to the detriment of the competition.
I really don't think thats the case just based off of ratio of "brought" to "bred" premierships here. Unless of course you are the roosters.


I cavet above with; it feels a bit silly just doing premierships. What you really need is avarage ladder position for a real test of impact, as there is never just one active "devlopment" club.
Click to expand...
It's maybe fairer to assess development clubs and how often once they make Finals for the first time ever/in a while, they stay in that position. But obviously that's a lot of work to get that information - although in this day and age I'm sure if you Googled/DuckDuckGoed/Whatevered it, somone's probably done a huge, dense and boring article assessing just that.

Of course, it's a bit academic for clubs like the Warriors as largely we have to be a development squad. Either we're promoting from within or getting juniors/3rd Choice players twiddling their thumbs in Australia and developing them for 2-3 seasons and then it's BabyTime or they finally get the offer of a Top 30 Starting 13 role in another NRL Team.

As to last night, on behalf of everyone here I'd like to welcome the 2025 Penrith Panthers to the Butt Of Every Sports Joke Association.

At least they're prime candidates to feature in any anti-violence campaigns. And we all know why that is, right? ;)
 
tyrael said:
Imagine if Broncos had stopped them in the third year, how different the NRL landscape would be. Kevie still at suncorp, madge at NSW and Panthers in the doldrums. No one talking about is the dynasty over.
Click to expand...

Too early to talk about dynasty over.

May cause them to reassess some things. Be very surprised if they don't look to go to market for another half. Can't see them going into next year with just Schneider / Cole / Talangi as options.
 
mrblonde said:
Of course, it's a bit academic for clubs like the Warriors as largely we have to be a development squad.
Click to expand...

This is a very good observation and one that, I think, gets played down a lot.

Our strength will come when we figure out how to utilize the value that young players hold when being able to have a career and not leave their families.

There has been a recent rise in popularity with players representing their homelands in international footy. This bodes well for our development systems as the players are starting to hold this as a priority.

The club needs to really latch on to this and pump the shit out of our pathways. players like JFH, Tohu, Clark, CNK, SJ are great right now because they provide poster boy fodder for kids in this country.

We are also, currently, the only club in this country.

It's a long term play, but a solid one none the less.
 
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Makasene said:
Too early to talk about dynasty over.

May cause them to reassess some things. Be very surprised if they don't look to go to market for another half. Can't see them going into next year with just Schneider / Cole / Talangi as options.
Click to expand...
I think Katoa could be in their plans if he’s keen to leave dolphins? Think their recruitment hasn’t hit the mark either, Papali’i isn’t going back to old eels form, yet anyway and Talagi still has some work to do particularly defensively
 
Noitall said:
I think Katoa could be in their plans if he’s keen to leave dolphins? Think their recruitment hasn’t hit the mark either, Papali’i isn’t going back to old eels form, yet anyway and Talagi still has some work to do particularly defensively
Click to expand...
Unless he goes there on unders, I can’t see it happening. He would be commanding similar money to Galvin
 
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