NRL Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles

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Ref said:
Only $14.
With some tipping them to make the 8 those odds aren’t great.
Thought I’d get 50-1.
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That’s the roosters odds.
Let’s take a closer look then…


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I see a solid forward pack with some impact from olakauatu and bullemor, a very experienced halves pairing and gun outside backs with speed to burn.
Think you’re right about their depth- it’s been their Achilles heal for a few years and while I think seibold has a great footy brain Ive heard he’s a bit of a pisshead which isn’t ideal when you’re trying to create the right culture for young men.
I have them finishing around 10th- would give them a better chance of making the 8 than finishing last but u could be right- time will tell..
 

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Defence said:
That’s the roosters odds.
Let’s take a closer look then…


View attachment 15039
I see a solid forward pack with some impact from olakauatu and bullemor, a very experienced halves pairing and gun outside backs with speed to burn.
Think you’re right about their depth- it’s been their Achilles heal for a few years and while I think seibold has a great footy brain Ive heard he’s a bit of a pisshead which isn’t ideal when you’re trying to create the right culture for young men.
I have them finishing around 10th- would give them a better chance of making the 8 than finishing last but u could be right- time will tell..
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Don't think Waddell will be there. Not 1st grade standard.
 
sup42 said:
Bit of a tricky one.

First of all no water is dumb.

There is no benefit to forcing dehydration, none whatsoever.

Sounds like a case of heat stroke, dehydration, leading to multiple systems failure including brain function.

They almost killed him in other words.

Where it gets tricky is that at what point does an employee have personal responsibility to say fuck this I am taking a drink.
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The "fuck this" point is death for some people.
 
WAH MAN said:
The "fuck this" point is death for some people.
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I am interested in what you mean by this point.

I think I understand it....as in the point where refusing the harmful training never comes because some people refuse to quit?

Even when the consequences to themselves is catastrophic?

But I am wondering how you saw it (not you personally necessarily just want to know what you specifically meant by that comment).

For example is it like playing chicken with yourself to see what breaks first?

Or refusing to quit to stick it to an Authority figure?

Or quitting or tapping is for pussies?

Or along the lines of I am wired to do as I am told because that is how I was raised and the coaches probably know what they are doing?
 
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sup42 said:
I am interested in what you mean by this point.

I think I understand it....as in the point where refusing the harmful training never comes because some people refuse to quit?

Even when the consequences to themselves is catastrophic?

But I am wondering how you saw it (not you personally necessarily just want to know what you specifically meant by that comment).

For example is it like playing chicken with yourself to see what breaks first?

Or refusing to quit to stick it to an Authority figure?

Or quitting or tapping is for pussies?

Or along the lines of I am wired to do as I am told because that is how I was raised and the coaches probably know what they are doing?
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I think u have faith in the trainers and medical professionals that theyre not going to push u to the point of death. I don't get the no water thing? that's ludicrous in the middle of a Sydney summer.
Remember when siliva havili passed out during one of our pre season camps and everyone piled in on him for being soft- i didn't get that either- the guy had mentally pushed himself beyond his physical limits.
In cam smiths book he talks about guys who passed out at storm pre seasons- it was seen as a badge of honor to them. Hopefully we're passed all that now but its a shame someone had to lose their life first.
 
sup42 said:
I am interested in what you mean by this point.

I think I understand it....as in the point where refusing the harmful training never comes because some people refuse to quit?

Even when the consequences to themselves is catastrophic?

But I am wondering how you saw it (not you personally necessarily just want to know what you specifically meant by that comment).

For example is it like playing chicken with yourself to see what breaks first?

Or refusing to quit to stick it to an Authority figure?

Or quitting or tapping is for pussies?

Or along the lines of I am wired to do as I am told because that is how I was raised and the coaches probably know what they are doing?
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Pretty good summary. All of the above really.

Could add - didn't know I could refuse an order.

Didn't believe I had any autonomy over myself.

Coaches might have not considered who they were working with and how they would respond to such conditions. Perhaps there were insufficient risk assessments and management of said risks.

Imagine what may happen politically if Eliesa Katoa dies from his recent head injuries in the near future.

Not sure if I've answered you but once I'm having a lunch break I'll read it all properly.

Sending.........
 
Defence said:
I think u have faith in the trainers and medical professionals that theyre not going to push u to the point of death. I don't get the no water thing? that's ludicrous in the middle of a Sydney summer.
Remember when siliva havili passed out during one of our pre season camps and everyone piled in on him for being soft- i didn't get that either- the guy had mentally pushed himself beyond his physical limits.
In cam smiths book he talks about guys who passed out at storm pre seasons- it was seen as a badge of honor to them. Hopefully we're passed all that now but its a shame someone had to lose their life first.
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Watch the Tonga Kiwis game and see the pre match head knock Eli took from Hopoate. Then listen to the commentary that in the moment stated he's passed the test and will play.

The concern for player safety in my opinion is token at best because the bottom line is profit.
 
Defence said:
I think u have faith in the trainers and medical professionals that theyre not going to push u to the point of death. I don't get the no water thing? that's ludicrous in the middle of a Sydney summer.
Remember when siliva havili passed out during one of our pre season camps and everyone piled in on him for being soft- i didn't get that either- the guy had mentally pushed himself beyond his physical limits.
In cam smiths book he talks about guys who passed out at storm pre seasons- it was seen as a badge of honor to them. Hopefully we're passed all that now but its a shame someone had to lose their life first.
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Clarks beach, ex SAS twit puts them through SAS level training.....yes I remember.....I also remember the young man who died during NZSAS selection from this exact multiple organ failure we are talking about right now.

Saliva was very unfortunate in deed.

Good faith vs negligence.

It will be interesting to see the arguments for why withholding water was believed to be reasonable and safe at the time "trust me bro I had a good idea" won't fly in court.
 
WAH MAN said:
Pretty good summary. All of the above really.

Could add - didn't know I could refuse an order.

Didn't believe I had any autonomy over myself.

Coaches might have not considered who they were working with and how they would respond to such conditions. Perhaps there were insufficient risk assessments and management of said risks.

Imagine what may happen politically if Eliesa Katoa dies from his recent head injuries in the near future.

Not sure if I've answered you but once I'm having a lunch break I'll read it all properly.

Sending.........
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Thank you for that, and the additions.

I was interested in specifically what you had in mind and it seems all of it....I just didn't want to assume.
 
WAH MAN said:
Watch the Tonga Kiwis game and see the pre match head knock Eli took from Hopoate. Then listen to the commentary that in the moment stated he's passed the test and will play.

The concern for player safety in my opinion is token at best because the bottom line is profit.
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Yes I noticed that bombshell too....he passed the test....the test that never happened....and this will in part be due to the commentary expecting that the test MUST have been done.

It seems that in this current climate no one believed you wouldn't do one right?
 
sup42 said:
Yes I noticed that bombshell too....he passed the test....the test that never happened....and this will in part be due to the commentary expecting that the test MUST have been done.

It seems that in this current climate no one believed you wouldn't do one right?
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No idea if there was any legal obligation to monitor or test pre match as has been discussed around Eliesa. But I do make a speculative assumption which is........

He was tested twice. Both in game.

Not three times.
 
WAH MAN said:
The concern for player safety in my opinion is token at best because the bottom line is profit.
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Another opinion, the players have a limited window to play and are putting everything into maximising their playing time, exposure, taking all opportunities to maximise their reputation.

Even players at lower levels will get smashed and play on just because they enjoy to game with no profit involved:

Katoa wanted to represent his country. I honestly don’t think profit had anything to do with it.

The rules need to protect player from themselves as well as clubs/ coaches.
 
wizard of Tauranga said:
Another opinion, the players have a limited window to play and are putting everything into maximising their playing time, exposure, taking all opportunities to maximise their reputation.

Even players at lower levels will get smashed and play on just because they enjoy to game with no profit involved:

Katoa wanted to represent his country. I honestly don’t think profit had anything to do with it.

The rules need to protect player from themselves as well as clubs/ coaches.
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That's an interesting point. Being a man's man in sport and real life can get you multiple concussions, suicidal ideation and other negatives.

But there are upsides to healthy masculinity. I'm not even sure if that is the scale we should be measuring this topic on though.
 
Ref said:
Who is the alpha half now.
Brooks or Fogarty?
DCE is still way better than either of those two.
The forward pack and depth is amongst the weakest in the comp.
The older Turbos are past it.
The younger has peaked at average.
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Just coming back to this... i see the mole put out his list of top 10 recruits for 2026- hes got fogarty at number 1 and kobe hetherington at number 7- dce didnt make the list...
mind u it is the mole so probably supports your argument now i think of it :ROFLMAO:
 
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WAH MAN said:
No idea if there was any legal obligation to monitor or test pre match as has been discussed around Eliesa. But I do make a speculative assumption which is........

He was tested twice. Both in game.

Not three times.
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Not even speculation. Tongan team acknowledged he was not tested. Woolf said in an interview they did not know about the concussion from the warm up.
 
Noitall said:
$650k per season for 2 years. Manly offered $600k per season, not sure of the length of contract they offered?
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Watching him chase back and track the ball running about 4000km in one play made his value increase in my mind. But hey if I was on that whack from where I am right now I would start running too
 
Defence said:
Just coming back to this... i see the mole put out his list of top 10 recruits for 2026- hes got fogarty at number 1 and kobe hetherington at number 7- dce didnt make the list...
mind u it is the mole so probably supports your argument now i think of it :ROFLMAO:
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The loss is DCE will be monstrous.
He would rival Cam Smith with the influence he has weilded for such a long time.
Fogarty is pretty decent only.
 
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