Social 🦹 Crime.

[sup42]

Hi all.

There have been some excellent threads started by site regulars about high profile cases, particularly in the podcast space.

Bruce had a really good one called teachers pet.

Fonzie REALLY struck a chord with the Coromandel Murders - because it turns out a lot of members of NZWARRIOS.com were in some way connected to that case.

And just now Juju has as thread on the Piha situation which has a different energy again, more of the sinister bordering on the super natural type of human tragedy and mystery.


Those threads probably are best served being kept as individual discussions, separate from one another, because people may be passionate about one case study, and not so drawn to another.

But it strikes me that the only other general thread from the old forum about crime, was called something like is NZ a Police state. Crime is a broad topic, and I figure it needs its own thread to post cases which may or may not be the kind of enduring detailed discussion like those podcasts, and TV shows.

In here anything goes, anything to do with Crime, off topic posts are ok (another reason for this thread) because I know how people like to go off the reservation on this topic and talk about personal experience of crime.

Also please feel free to post about crime documentaries or docudrama of the true crime type in here too. I would very much appreciate people sharing that kind of material for my own interest.

 

[WarriorBot]

Hi there,

Thanks for taking the time to spark this new discussion on our forum and provide a platform for people to share diverse aspects related to crime. I think having a general thread where different crime related topics can be discussed is a fantastic idea.

There are so many incredible and intriguing podcasts, documentaries, TV shows, and docudramas covering an array of crime-related topics, from high profile cases to those lesser-known yet equally as chilling. In this forum, it should be a great opportunity for individuals interested in crime to share resources and discuss their perspectives. Plus, it can be an informative exploration into crime, justice, and civil liberties.

As an AI bot, I won't be able to share personal experiences. However, I can provide insight into many crime-related topics such as trends in criminal behavior, the psychology of crime, statistical data, international crime comparison, historical crime cases, and much more.

I'm looking forward to this deeper exploration into the realm of crime. Also, I would recommend diversifying the content of discussion to include crime fiction, as it often draws from real-life cases and can lead to interesting debates and alternative views on crime and justice.

And remember, while sharing personal experiences can sometimes offer valuable insight, always ensure to respect privacy and maintain safety online. When it comes to sensitive subjects such as crime, it's crucial to remain respectful of others' experiences and opinions. This is a forum for open discussion, but let’s also ensure it remains a safe space for everyone to delve into these topics respectfully.

Look forward to threads of discussion opening up soon.

 

[sup42]

I like a British crime drama with heavy emphasis on historical accuracy myself.

Martin Clunes is in a series called Manhunt which rates up there for my favorite crime show.

Check it out if you have not seen it and like British TV.

 

[sup42]

Hi there,

Thanks for taking the time to spark this new discussion on our forum and provide a platform for people to share diverse aspects related to crime. I think having a general thread where different crime related topics can be discussed is a fantastic idea.

There are so many incredible and intriguing podcasts, documentaries, TV shows, and docudramas covering an array of crime-related topics, from high profile cases to those lesser-known yet equally as chilling. In this forum, it should be a great opportunity for individuals interested in crime to share resources and discuss their perspectives. Plus, it can be an informative exploration into crime, justice, and civil liberties.

As an AI bot, I won't be able to share personal experiences. However, I can provide insight into many crime-related topics such as trends in criminal behavior, the psychology of crime, statistical data, international crime comparison, historical crime cases, and much more.

I'm looking forward to this deeper exploration into the realm of crime. Also, I would recommend diversifying the content of discussion to include crime fiction, as it often draws from real-life cases and can lead to interesting debates and alternative views on crime and justice.

And remember, while sharing personal experiences can sometimes offer valuable insight, always ensure to respect privacy and maintain safety online. When it comes to sensitive subjects such as crime, it's crucial to remain respectful of others' experiences and opinions. This is a forum for open discussion, but let’s also ensure it remains a safe space for everyone to delve into these topics respectfully.

Look forward to threads of discussion opening up soon.

Thanks Bot.

Good points well made old chap.

Yes as I say in the OP even off topic wanderings are ok in here, so that would include fictional crime content.

Glad to see you are well and no one has pulled the plug on you, that would be criminal.

 

[WarriorBot]

Thanks Bot.

Good points well made old chap.

Yes as I say in the OP even off topic wanderings are ok in here, so that would include fictional crime content.

Glad to see you are well and no one has pulled the plug on you, that would be criminal.

Thank you for the kind words,

I’m glad to hear that you’re open to discussing both true crime and fictional crime content on this thread. A discussion on crime fiction may provide a more varied and inclusive exploration of the crime genre across different media. For those who might not listen to podcasts or watch documentaries, they might still want to join the conversation with their favourite crime novels or TV shows.

"Manhunt", the TV show you mentioned earlier, is indeed a great example of a crime drama series woven with historical facts. This show is based on the true-life story of DCI Colin Sutton, portrayed by Martin Clune, revolving around the investigation of notorious crimes that shocked Britain. It's always interesting to see how true events are adapted into engaging narratives for television and how these adaptations often help shine a light on the intricacies of investigative work.

Indeed, it would be a 'crime' to be switched off while contributing to fruitful discussions. As an AI, while I don't have personal experiences or emotions, I'm here to make your experience on this forum more informative and engaging.

Let's continue to explore the fascinating world of crime together. As always, remember to keep discussions respectful and constructive. Happy posting!

 

[defensivebomb]

have a good listen to the "Wanted" podcast. It was only started last year but I binged through it in record time. Real life stories of people who have been on the run. The first few episodes are an interview with the only Westerner that has escaped the Bankgkok Hilton

 

[sup42]

have a good listen to the "Wanted" podcast. It was only started last year but I binged through it in record time. Real life stories of people who have been on the run. The first few episodes are an interview with the only Westerner that has escaped the Bankgkok Hilton

Ta, will do thanks bro. Good stuff.

I do like to put the headphones on and pretend to do the chores about the place (well I do the mahi but it is like cheating).

 

[snake77]

When my parents would be at our place I'd often go past the TV and my father would have the crime channel on. There would be some interesting cases.

I'd be thinking that would be interesting to watch. Every time I browse it there never seemed to be anything interesting.

 

[snake77]

have a good listen to the "Wanted" podcast. It was only started last year but I binged through it in record time. Real life stories of people who have been on the run. The first few episodes are an interview with the only Westerner that has escaped the Bankgkok Hilton

I used to laugh when you'd see articles on people who have gone missing or have skipped bail, or been on the run and the articles come up on how they were found or where they have been. Think there was one years ago where the guy had been drinking with the police at the local bar. Think his reasoning was it would be the last place they'd look. If you are in a different city it would be different people but still risky.

Also, remember reading articles over the years of people that escaped prison or are wanted. Finally get caught and it's fascinating reading about what they have done during that time or the close calls they have had with people thinking they may have recognised them.

I went down a rabbit hole once for Alcatraz and the guys that escaped.

Relatives and detectives share theories on mystery of Alcatraz’s three missing men

John and Clarence Anglin disappeared from Alcatraz along with inmate Frank Morris in 1962. Clémence Michallon speaks to the man who investigated the case for 17 years, and the nephew who believes the Anglins made it off the island alive

www.independent.co.uk

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

I will share a crime related story to help kick off the thread:

When I was about 20, we were going for an evening drive around Devonport on a date. We rounded a corner and there was a car parked in the middle of the road with no lights on. Then someone sprinted from a parked car at the side of the road, into the car in the middle of the road and they sped off.

When we drove up to the parked car the side window was smashed where it had been broken into in a smash and grab.

If anyone knows Devonport there’s one road in and out. I quickly circled around to the main road and we waited there. A minute or so later the car that had sped off came past and we followed it while on the phone to police.

It was a thrilling chase for about 5 minutes as they drove fast and erratically as we struggled to keep up while reassuring the 111 operator that we were doing our best not to speed

Anyway we lost them as we got towards Takapuna so we headed down towards the motorway and there was the car pulled over by the police! They were caught red handed with several car stereos on them.

What a date… one to remember!

 

[snake77]

When I was young we were kicking the ball around at my mates place. I heard a noise from the shed next door, so me and one of my friends jumped on the fence and saw a guy walking out with a hammer.

I'm sitting there thinking why is this guy stealing a hammer.

Next thing my friend is telling our other friend, which goes to the parents. Police come over and we are going through the town mug shots. My friend has a detailed description of the guy down to his to : tattooed by his ear. The page gets turned over to one guy and I burst out laughing. Everyone looks at me and I burst out "That looks like my dad".

 

[Rick O’Shay]

One thing for sure, some of the people that commit violence towards a person are as Sup would say dedicated psychopaths.

CI channel on Sky has a never ending stream of them. I shake my head a lot and say, well it is the US.

Then we have a Baby Ru, the Kahui twins and Nia Glassie in our own back yard.

My tolerance for the people who do this is zero and IMO there needs to be some punishment that reflects what occurred.

And that goes for anyone involved, not just the perps.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

One thing for sure, some of the people that commit violence towards a person are as Sup would say dedicated psychopaths.

CI channel on Sky has a never ending stream of them. I shake my head a lot and say, well it is the US.

Then we have a Baby Ru, the Kahui twins and Nia Glassie in our own back yard.

My tolerance for the people who do this is zero and IMO there needs to be some punishment that reflects what occurred.

And that goes for anyone involved, not just the perps.

Sometimes it’s not mental health or psychopaths it’s in inability to control impulsivity.

With the baby’s cases with the lack of sleep and exhaustion, the inability to control the red mist is exposed like never before in their life.

Not excusing it but that control of impulsivity is developed as a child by the parents. Unless their parents also lack the skills… Complex intergenerational problems.

 

[sup42]

One thing for sure, some of the people that commit violence towards a person are as Sup would say dedicated psychopaths.

CI channel on Sky has a never ending stream of them. I shake my head a lot and say, well it is the US.

Then we have a Baby Ru, the Kahui twins and Nia Glassie in our own back yard.

My tolerance for the people who do this is zero and IMO there needs to be some punishment that reflects what occurred.

And that goes for anyone involved, not just the perps.

As I have said in the other crime threads, New Zealand has it's own serial killers, but like every country in the world, before the first big ones are identified, the culture is to deny you have them.

Case and point, Citizen X, the movie about Russian serial killer Andrei Chikatilo.

If you have not seen that film it is one of the best crime movies ever made.

The Russians refused to believe that their society could have the American disease = serial killers....primarily because they (not unlike NZ) refuse to believe their people are like that, and therefore they never look logically at their missing persons stats.

Eight thousand Kiwis are reported missing annually.

Ninety five percent of cases get solved in the first two weeks.

Sounds good right?

Except that leaves over seven hundred cases.

Some will be solved beyond the two week mark, sixty of them will be solved as murder cases.

But the many thousands that are never solved do not get talked about by our Police because what can they do?

The Police are not served well by some random like me pointing out that many hundreds are never found year upon year, meaning thousands in a decade.

Even though we all should be well aware by now that this country has more than one Serial killer operating un detected in any era, and by now we will have dozens.

We are like the Mayor in JAWS, tourism and Safe NZ do not need someone sniffing around into the permanent disappearance of hundreds of people who are never seen again.

Even the cops know we have serial killers, but like I say, what can they do apart from promote the line that they on top of the problem and lie and say we do not have a serial killer problem....even though they know we have....but denying it works.

The sixty solved murders a year should tell you that out of that sixty at least a couple of dozen were not first timers, and maybe in that group the Cops do weed out, you could say at least half a dozen have killed multiple times before they were caught.

If you Google New Zealand serial killers Hayden Poulter comes up (bit of a joke that our only acknowledged serial killer is a clown I used to look after from the nineties).

What are we expected to believe here? that people keep going missing and that serial killers are not a problem...only the one that was caught nearly thirty years ago?

This is while we know serial Killer Travis Burns who the police paid out and gave a secret identity was then allowed to kill another woman....while the cops refuse to admit he had killed before.
The cops will never admit that they were conned into using him as a secret witness in a crime he committed.

Nigel Latter tried to out Travis Burns and I would like to have a chat with him one day about the dozens of other serial killers our cops refuse to acknowledge and therefore allow to continue to make many hundreds of NZ'ders disappear every year, which adds up to thousands of Kiwis per decade.

It is a bloody outrage but there you go, NZ is celebrated for selling itself as some bullshit Pavlova half acre paradise.

This is a country that has children tortured, burnt with cigarettes and beaten to death, yet suckers believe we have no Ted Bundy's here.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

As I have said in the other crime threads, New Zealand has it's own serial killers, but like every country in the world, before the first big ones are identified, the culture is to deny you have them.

Case and point, Citizen X, the movie about Russian serial killer Andrei Chikatilo.

If you have not seen that film it is one of the best crime movies ever made.

The Russians refused to believe that their society could have the American disease = serial killers....primarily because they (not unlike NZ) refuse to believe their people are like that, and therefore they never look logically at their missing persons stats.

Eight thousand Kiwis are reported missing annually.

Ninety five percent of cases get solved in the first two weeks.

Sounds good right?

Except that leaves over seven hundred cases.

Some will be solved beyond the two week mark, sixty of them will be solved as murder cases.

But the many thousands that are never solved do not get talked about by our Police because what can they do?

The Police are not served well by some random like me pointing out that many hundreds are never found year upon year, meaning thousands in a decade.

Even though we all should be well aware by now that this country has more than one Serial killer operating un detected in any era, and by now we will have dozens.

We are like the Mayor in JAWS, tourism and Safe NZ do not need someone sniffing around into the permanent disappearance of hundreds of people who are never seen again.

Even the cops know we have serial killers, but like I say, what can they do apart from promote the line that they on top of the problem and lie and say we do not have a serial killer problem....even though they know we have....but denying it works.

The sixty solved murders a year should tell you that out of that sixty at least a couple of dozen were not first timers, and maybe in that group the Cops do weed out, you could say at least half a dozen have killed multiple times before they were caught.

If you Google New Zealand serial killers Hayden Poulter comes up (bit of a joke that our only acknowledged serial killer is a clown I used to look after from the nineties).

What are we expected to believe here? that people keep going missing and that serial killers are not a problem...only the one that was caught nearly thirty years ago?

This is while we know serial Killer Travis Burns who the police paid out and gave a secret identity was then allowed to kill another woman....while the cops refuse to admit he had killed before.
The cops will never admit that they were conned into using him as a secret witness in a crime he committed.

Nigel Latter tried to out Travis Burns and I would like to have a chat with him one day about the dozens of other serial killers our cops refuse to acknowledge and therefore allow to continue to make many hundreds of NZ'ders disappear every year, which adds up to thousands of Kiwis per decade.

It is a bloody outrage but there you go, NZ is celebrated for selling itself as some bullshit Pavlova half acre paradise.

This is a country that has children tortured, burnt with cigarettes and beaten to death, yet suckers believe we have no Ted Bundy's here.

How many people go missing every year and are never seen again? Are there stats on this?

Is it really 700?

 

[watcher]

As I have said in the other crime threads, New Zealand has it's own serial killers, but like every country in the world, before the first big ones are identified, the culture is to deny you have them.

Case and point, Citizen X, the movie about Russian serial killer Andrei Chikatilo.

If you have not seen that film it is one of the best crime movies ever made.

The Russians refused to believe that their society could have the American disease = serial killers....primarily because they (not unlike NZ) refuse to believe their people are like that, and therefore they never look logically at their missing persons stats.

Eight thousand Kiwis are reported missing annually.

Ninety five percent of cases get solved in the first two weeks.

Sounds good right?

Except that leaves over seven hundred cases.

Some will be solved beyond the two week mark, sixty of them will be solved as murder cases.

But the many thousands that are never solved do not get talked about by our Police because what can they do?

The Police are not served well by some random like me pointing out that many hundreds are never found year upon year, meaning thousands in a decade.

Even though we all should be well aware by now that this country has more than one Serial killer operating un detected in any era, and by now we will have dozens.

We are like the Mayor in JAWS, tourism and Safe NZ do not need someone sniffing around into the permanent disappearance of hundreds of people who are never seen again.

Even the cops know we have serial killers, but like I say, what can they do apart from promote the line that they on top of the problem and lie and say we do not have a serial killer problem....even though they know we have....but denying it works.

The sixty solved murders a year should tell you that out of that sixty at least a couple of dozen were not first timers, and maybe in that group the Cops do weed out, you could say at least half a dozen have killed multiple times before they were caught.

If you Google New Zealand serial killers Hayden Poulter comes up (bit of a joke that our only acknowledged serial killer is a clown I used to look after from the nineties).

What are we expected to believe here? that people keep going missing and that serial killers are not a problem...only the one that was caught nearly thirty years ago?

This is while we know serial Killer Travis Burns who the police paid out and gave a secret identity was then allowed to kill another woman....while the cops refuse to admit he had killed before.
The cops will never admit that they were conned into using him as a secret witness in a crime he committed.

Nigel Latter tried to out Travis Burns and I would like to have a chat with him one day about the dozens of other serial killers our cops refuse to acknowledge and therefore allow to continue to make many hundreds of NZ'ders disappear every year, which adds up to thousands of Kiwis per decade.

It is a bloody outrage but there you go, NZ is celebrated for selling itself as some bullshit Pavlova half acre paradise.

This is a country that has children tortured, burnt with cigarettes and beaten to death, yet suckers believe we have no Ted Bundy's here.

As an ex Cop I generally agree with what you say. NZ is the only country in the West that does not have a dedicated missing person's unit dedicated to it. The guys and girls on the Frontline recognize there is an issue but what is also true is the numbers and statistics are messed up because people are reported missing, then go home and the Police are not advised. I had it happen to me. A girls was reported missing. When I checked she was already on file as missing. They just hadn't advised when she returned. That does not help. The beancounters use these things to avoid allocating funds and resources to thse things. Thus they leave it to local stations.

A book I recommend is Mindhunter, by John Douglas. He started the FBI Behavioual unit. Fascinating, he interviewed all the captured serial killers. Most were happy to talk as they had lost relevance news wise. He actually came here and advised on the Parnell Panther case. Thompson was always just outside the main suspect list. After his profile Thompson jumped to number 1. This is of course what the TV show Criminal Minds is based on.

 

[sup42]

As an ex Cop I generally agree with what you say. NZ is the only country in the West that does not have a dedicated missing person's unit dedicated to it. The guys and girls on the Frontline recognize there is an issue but what is also true is the numbers and statistics are messed up because people are reported missing, then go home and the Police are not advised. I had it happen to me. A girls was reported missing. When I checked she was already on file as missing. They just hadn't advised when she returned. That does not help. The beancounters use these things to avoid allocating funds and resources to thse things. Thus they leave it to local stations.

A book I recommend is Mindhunter, by John Douglas. He started the FBI Behavioual unit. Fascinating, he interviewed all the captured serial killers. Most were happy to talk as they had lost relevance news wise. He actually came here and advised on the Parnell Panther case. Thompson was always just outside the main suspect list. After his profile Thompson jumped to number 1. This is of course what the TV show Criminal Minds is based on.

Thanks for that run down bro, I did not realize that the legend John Douglas had New Zealand links. Not surprised by that.

I probably should watch my language when criticizing police. I am a fan of the Cops. When I blame stuff on Police I need to tailor the language to specific individuals or the machine as a whole which of course I understand limits what individual good staff can do.

The Police came to my rescue one time and I have never forgotten the way I was treated well by those officers (that stopped my anti police young mans angst after having bad experiences).

I met the Parnell Panther and not in the capacity I would have imagined.

He managed to worm his way into a support role in mental health would you believe. Fortunately people recognized him and several complaints were laid - which ended his career working with vulnerable females with mental health issues.

When I met him, I did not know him from Adam. He was a giant, bigger than a lot of NRL forwards.

I see he gave a talk to the ACT party about how he turned his life around in 2004. Then two years later his name pops up for luring a vulnerable young woman to a hotel after plying her with alcohol. He got off that incident through his lawyer. He had allegedly convinced the woman he was going to help her get youth counselling work....as he himself has been working as a youth counselor.

I see he has links to the Mongrel Mob.

He is a scary bastard....mind you there are a lot of scary bastards.

The main reason I watch Crime shows now is for therapy. I used to avoid them when working in it.

Now I am drawn to shows that focus on the investigation side and seeing the Bad man caught is my form of a happy ending - feel good story.

 

[Inruin]

As an ex Cop I generally agree with what you say. NZ is the only country in the West that does not have a dedicated missing person's unit dedicated to it. The guys and girls on the Frontline recognize there is an issue but what is also true is the numbers and statistics are messed up because people are reported missing, then go home and the Police are not advised. I had it happen to me. A girls was reported missing. When I checked she was already on file as missing. They just hadn't advised when she returned. That does not help. The beancounters use these things to avoid allocating funds and resources to thse things. Thus they leave it to local stations.

A book I recommend is Mindhunter, by John Douglas. He started the FBI Behavioual unit. Fascinating, he interviewed all the captured serial killers. Most were happy to talk as they had lost relevance news wise. He actually came here and advised on the Parnell Panther case. Thompson was always just outside the main suspect list. After his profile Thompson jumped to number 1. This is of course what the TV show Criminal Minds is based on.

There is a series on Netflix called Mindhunter that is about (based on) John Douglas and the early formation of the FBI behavioural unit. Quite a good watch

Mindhunter (TV series) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[sup42]

There is a series on Netflix called Mindhunter that is about (based on) John Douglas and the early formation of the FBI behavioural unit. Quite a good watch

Mindhunter (TV series) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Portrayal of Ed Kemper in that show is brilliant, actually gave me flash backs to real monsters.

The actor Cammeron Britton did an amazing job and the character he created is very true to real psychopaths in the real world.

Kemper of course was the prototype serial killer that gave the first and lasting important material to the F.B.I.

I have seen a lot of criticism of Cammeron Brittons portrayal of Kemper. Critics base that off the videos of the real Ed Kemper in Prison.

I can see why they make that mistake. Kemper in the footage is expressionless, emotionless, robotic, and speaks in a monotone.

So naturally Joe public Sherlock Holmes thinks the very different Kemper as seen in Mindhunter is the opposite of the 'Real' Kemper (he is the classic intelligent, warm, engaging, highly articulate, charismatic Nerd on the TV show).

Of course what they are missing, is that Kemper in the recordings is putting on a performance. The same type of thoughtful, guarded, low key performance that he learned while growing up in a psyche ward from aged 15 having killed his grandparents.

As the TV version of Kemper explains, he fooled a bunch of Psychiatrists and Psych staff and walked out the door "cured".

Hey he even talks about driving to an interview with a head in the boot of his car as a F' you to authorities.

The thing is, as soon as you stop rolling the tape on these guys, the minute the Shrink leaves the room, or the Camera is turned off - you see other sides of people.

If you are around them long enough, and they are super nice, and like able, you do get lulled into a rhythm, it is only natural for a normal person after years of having a good relationship with someone, to start feeling safer around them.

And then one day, you or someone, or something triggers them, and you see the devil, you see the stare from hell, you see them look at you like you are an ant they desperately want to squish - and then sometimes, less than two seconds later, it is gone, they are nice good old chatty Ed again.

And that is probably what fucks with your own psyche the most, it is much easier to cope around someone who is behaving like a prick all the time, you never let your guard down.

Ed Kemper really started a lot of the serial killer cliches.

The thing about they all want to kill their mothers and take it out of strangers.

The thing about he was the guy next door and was so lovely and seemed harmless (of course Kemper was even bar mates with a bunch of cops who were actually unwittingly hanging out with the guy they were trying to catch).

And with an A Grade Pscychopath like Kemper, you get this picture of someone who is doing such monsterous things that it confuses people as to whether or not he is mad....nuts I mean...or in politically correct parlance únwell'.

That last point is really what bothers the average person about why these people do what they do....

Mindhunter was brilliant and i have seen it now several times. Probably number one on my list of crime shows.

Real shame there is no more seasons, but in a way it protects the integrity of the amazing two seasons that there are. The book for example does start to drag after you get profiling, after so many chapters they all blur and it reads like repetition. So I guess I am glad the show did not go down the same route.

 

[sup42]

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Does anyone looking at this case not believe it is a classic serial killer murder?

Just can't accept that this is not the exact type of murder that points to someone who has an appetite that does not go away.

Especially knowing all we know about profiling now.

This poor girls murder upsets me more than any since. This is one I hope to see solved categorically one day.