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Tokyo Warrior said:
Pretty much every pro Palestinian voice in the media has been asked to condemn Hamas and inevitably they do. The movement is not about Hamas.
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Inevitably 🤣.

How can it not be when they are the controlling faction in Gaza and there are calls to recognize a Palestinian state - therefore legitimizing them. There are no calls by the Pro Palestine mob to remove Hamas and free Palestine. Even now there isn't.
 

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Inruin said:
Inevitably 🤣.

How can it not be when they are the controlling faction in Gaza and there are calls to recognize a Palestinian state - therefore legitimizing them. There are no calls by the Pro Palestine mob to remove Hamas and free Palestine. Even now there isn't.
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www.timesofisrael.com

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from
www.timesofisrael.com www.timesofisrael.com
 
Inruin said:
Inevitably 🤣.

How can it not be when they are the controlling faction in Gaza and there are calls to recognize a Palestinian state - therefore legitimizing them. There are no calls by the Pro Palestine mob to remove Hamas and free Palestine. Even now there isn't.
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Yes, inevitably. Who are the mob you refer to? An organization? Let’s examine what they espouse.
 

NZWarriors.com

As for fraud in Minnesota, I hope the fraudsters get what’s coming to them. But I’m a little confused why it is being mentioned in a Donald Trump thread. Is this thread being mixed up with the crime thread? Or is it a shoutout to Trump being an admitted fraudster and now being banned from operating a charity in the state of New York?
 
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Tokyo Warrior said:
Yes, inevitably. Who are the mob you refer to? An organization? Let’s examine what they espouse.
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You said there isn't widespread support for Hamas. The funding and demonstrations world wide doesn't support that.

I'm happy to be proven wrong. I can't recall seeing many if any pro Palestine organizations condemning Hamas outright and that they should be replaced as the controlling regime in Gaza. Even any condemnation of Oct 7th was carefully reframed.
 
AI search result, so take it with a grain of salt, but:

Several different types of pro-Palestine entities have condemned Hamas, ranging from Palestinian political rivals and Gazan citizens to international human rights groups and some activists in the West.


Palestinian Political & Grassroots Dissent
  • Palestinian Authority (PA) leadership: PA President Mahmoud Abbas has issued strong condemnations of Hamas's actions, referring to them as "sons of dogs," stating that the group provides Israel with excuses to continue its attacks on Gaza, and demanding they release the hostages.
  • Gazan Citizens: In a rare public display of dissent, hundreds of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip have protested against Hamas rule since the start of the current conflict, chanting slogans like, "Out, out, out! Hamas get out!" and "We want to live". These protests are motivated by exhaustion from the war, high casualty rates, and displacement.
  • Rival armed groups: Fatah-affiliated and non-aligned armed groups have operated against Hamas in Gaza, though their motivations can be complex and sometimes linked to internal clan disputes or the broader Fatah-Hamas conflict.

International Human Rights and Humanitarian Organizations
  • International Human Rights Groups: A coalition of 16 leading humanitarian and human rights organizations (including groups such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch) have called to stop arms transfers to all parties, implicitly condemning actions by both Israeli forces and Palestinian armed groups (including Hamas) that violate international humanitarian law, such as the taking of hostages and indiscriminate rocket attacks.
  • UN Human Rights Council: The UN has accused both Israel and Hamas of committing war crimes and human rights abuses, including attacks against civilian populations.

Activists and Analysts
  • Western Activists and Analysts: Some pro-Palestine individuals and analysts in the West have argued that failing to condemn Hamas's actions hurts the broader Palestinian cause, making the movement appear ideological and ambivalent to civilian suffering. They maintain that supporting the Palestinian people and their cause for self-determination is distinct from endorsing Hamas's methods or goals.
  • Secular Pro-Palestine Movements: There are secular pro-Palestine movements that do not align with Hamas's religiously motivated ideology.
 

NZWarriors.com

Tokyo Warrior said:
AI search result, so take it with a grain of salt, but:

Several different types of pro-Palestine entities have condemned Hamas, ranging from Palestinian political rivals and Gazan citizens to international human rights groups and some activists in the West.


Palestinian Political & Grassroots Dissent
  • Palestinian Authority (PA) leadership: PA President Mahmoud Abbas has issued strong condemnations of Hamas's actions, referring to them as "sons of dogs," stating that the group provides Israel with excuses to continue its attacks on Gaza, and demanding they release the hostages.
  • Gazan Citizens: In a rare public display of dissent, hundreds of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip have protested against Hamas rule since the start of the current conflict, chanting slogans like, "Out, out, out! Hamas get out!" and "We want to live". These protests are motivated by exhaustion from the war, high casualty rates, and displacement.
  • Rival armed groups: Fatah-affiliated and non-aligned armed groups have operated against Hamas in Gaza, though their motivations can be complex and sometimes linked to internal clan disputes or the broader Fatah-Hamas conflict.

International Human Rights and Humanitarian Organizations
  • International Human Rights Groups: A coalition of 16 leading humanitarian and human rights organizations (including groups such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch) have called to stop arms transfers to all parties, implicitly condemning actions by both Israeli forces and Palestinian armed groups (including Hamas) that violate international humanitarian law, such as the taking of hostages and indiscriminate rocket attacks.
  • UN Human Rights Council: The UN has accused both Israel and Hamas of committing war crimes and human rights abuses, including attacks against civilian populations.

Activists and Analysts
  • Western Activists and Analysts: Some pro-Palestine individuals and analysts in the West have argued that failing to condemn Hamas's actions hurts the broader Palestinian cause, making the movement appear ideological and ambivalent to civilian suffering. They maintain that supporting the Palestinian people and their cause for self-determination is distinct from endorsing Hamas's methods or goals.
  • Secular Pro-Palestine Movements: There are secular pro-Palestine movements that do not align with Hamas's religiously motivated ideology.
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So only Gazan citizens wanting Hamas out.....
 
Tokyo Warrior said:
As mentioned in those short blurbs. Which ones do you doubt?
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Is that your irrefutable evidence that there isn't widespread support for Hamas?

Even from your short blurb:

Some pro-Palestine individuals and analysts in the West have argued that failing to condemn Hamas's actions hurts the broader Palestinian cause, making the movement appear ideological and ambivalent to civilian suffering. They maintain that supporting the Palestinian people and their cause for self-determination is distinct from endorsing Hamas's methods or goals.


And again, the funding and demonstrations world wide shows there is widespread support for Hamas.

Do you think they should be left operating and in charge?
 

NZWarriors.com

Inruin said:
Is that your irrefutable evidence that there isn't widespread support for Hamas?

Even from your short blurb:

Some pro-Palestine individuals and analysts in the West have argued that failing to condemn Hamas's actions hurts the broader Palestinian cause, making the movement appear ideological and ambivalent to civilian suffering. They maintain that supporting the Palestinian people and their cause for self-determination is distinct from endorsing Hamas's methods or goals.


And again, the funding and demonstrations world wide shows there is widespread support for Hamas.
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And like always, you're providing nothing and blathering on with no links.
 
MrFrankWhite said:

The fraud scandal that rattled Minnesota was staggering in its scale and brazenness.

Federal prosecutors charged dozens of people with felonies, accusing them of stealing hundreds of millions of dollars from a government program meant to keep children fed during the Covid-19 pandemic.
At first, many in the state saw the case as a one-off abuse during a health emergency. But as new schemes targeting the state’s generous safety net programs came to light, state and federal officials began to grapple with a jarring reality.
Over the last five years, law enforcement officials say, fraud took root in pockets of Minnesota’s Somali diaspora as scores of individuals made small fortunes by setting up companies that billed state agencies for millions of dollars’ worth of social services that were never provided.
Federal prosecutors say that 59 people have been convicted in those schemes so far, and that more than $1 billion in taxpayers’ money has been stolen in three plots they are investigating. That is more than Minnesota spends annually to run its Department of Corrections. Minnesota’s fraud scandal stood out even in the context of rampant theft during the pandemic, when Americans stole tens of billions through unemployment benefits, business loans and other forms of aid, according to federal auditors.

Outrage has swelled among Minnesotans, and fraud has turned into a potent political issue in a competitive campaign season. Gov. Tim Walz and fellow Democrats are being asked to explain how so much money was stolen on their watch, providing Republicans, who hope to take back the governor’s office in 2026, with a powerful line of attack.
In recent days, President Trump has weighed in, calling Minnesota “a hub of fraudulent money laundering activity” and saying that Somali perpetrators should be sent “back to where they came from.”
Many Somali Americans in Minnesota say the fraud has damaged the reputation of their entire community, around 80,000 people, at a moment when their political and economic standing was on the rise.
Debate over the fraud has opened new rifts between the state’s Somali community and other Minnesotans, and has left some Somali Americans saying they are unfairly facing a new layer of suspicion against all of them, rather than the small group accused of fraud. Critics of the Walz administration say that the fraud persisted partly because state officials were fearful of alienating the Somali community in Minnesota. Governor Walz, who has instituted new fraud-prevention safeguards, defended his administration’s actions.
The episode has raised broader questions for some residents about the sustainability of Minnesota’s Scandinavian-modeled system of robust safety net programs bankrolled by high taxes. That system helped create an environment that drew immigrants to the state over many decades, including tens of thousands of Somali refugees after their country descended into civil war in the 1990s.

“No one will support these programs if they continue to be riddled with fraud,” Joseph H. Thompson, the federal prosecutor who has overseen the fraud cases said in an interview. “We’re losing our way of life in Minnesota in a very real way.”

Surge of Cases​

The first public sign of a major problem in the state’s social services system came in 2022, when federal prosecutors began charging defendants in connection to a program aimed at feeding hungry children. Merrick B. Garland, attorney general during the Biden administration, called it the country’s largest pandemic relief fraud scheme.
The prosecutors focused on a Minneapolis nonprofit organization called Feeding Our Future, which became a partner to dozens of local businesses that enrolled as feeding sites.

State agencies reimbursed the group and its partners for invoices claiming to have fed tens of thousands of children. In reality, federal prosecutors said, most of the meals were nonexistent, and business owners spent the funds on luxury cars, houses and even real estate projects abroad.

Behind the scenes, as federal investigators sifted through bank records and interviewed witnesses, they said they realized that the meals fraud was not an isolated incident. In September, prosecutors charged nine people in two new plots tied to public funds meant for those in need.
In one case, hundreds of providers were reimbursed for assistance they claimed to have provided to people at risk for homelessness, though federal authorities said services weren’t provided.
The program’s annual cost ballooned to more than $104 million last year, the authorities said, from a budgeted projection of $2.6 million when it began in 2020. Two of eight people charged in the scenario have pleaded guilty; six others have pleaded not guilty and are awaiting trial.
In another program, aimed to provide therapy for autistic children, prosecutors said providers recruited children in Minneapolis’s Somali community, falsely certifying them as qualifying for autism treatment and paying their parents kickbacks for their cooperation.
Prosecutors have so far charged one provider, Asha Farhan Hassan, 29, with wire fraud. They say she and business partners stole $14 million.

Ryan Pacyga, Ms. Hassan’s lawyer, said his client had entered the social services field with good intentions, but eventually began to submit fraudulent invoices. He said she intends to plead guilty.
Ms. Hassan is of Somali ancestry, as are all but eight of the 86 people charged in the meals, housing and autism therapy fraud cases, according to prosecutors. A vast majority are American citizens, by birth or naturalization.
Mr. Pacyga, who also has represented other defendants in the fraud cases, said that some involved became convinced that state agencies were tolerating, if not tacitly allowing, the fraud.
“No one was doing anything about the red flags,” he said. “It was like someone was stealing money from the cookie jar and they kept refilling it.”

‘A Core Voting Bloc’​

Red flags in the meals program surfaced in the early months of the pandemic, but the money kept flowing.
In 2020, Minnesota Department of Education officials who administered the program became overwhelmed by the number of applicants seeking to register new feeding sites and began raising questions about the plausibility of some invoices.
Feeding Our Future, the nonprofit group that was the largest provider in the pandemic program, responded with a warning. In an email, the group told the state agency that failing to promptly approve new applicants from “minority-owned businesses” would result in a lawsuit featuring accusations of racism that would be “sprawled across the news.”
Feeding Our Future later sued the agency, which continued reimbursing claims and approving new sites in the months that followed.
A report by Minnesota’s nonpartisan Office of the Legislative Auditor about the lapses that enabled the meals fraud later found that the threat of litigation and of negative press affected how state officials used their regulatory power.

Kayseh Magan, a Somali American who formerly worked as a fraud investigator for the Minnesota attorney general’s office, said elected officials in the state — and particularly those who were part of the state’s Democratic-led administration — were reluctant to take more assertive action in response to allegations in the Somali community.
“There is a perception that forcefully tackling this issue might cause political backlash among the Somali community, which is a core voting bloc” for Democrats, said Mr. Magan, who is among the few prominent figures in the Somali community to speak about the fraud.
As a trial in the meals fraud case was coming to a close last summer, an attempt to bribe a juror included an explicit insinuation about racism, prosecutors said. Several defendants in the trial were found to have arranged to send a bag containing $120,000 to a juror along with a note that read, “Why, why, why is it always people of color and immigrants prosecuted for the fault of other people?”
Mr. Thompson, a career prosecutor who served as interim U.S. attorney for several months this year, and who declined to discuss his own political preferences, said he believed that race sensitivities had played a major role in the rise of fraud. As pandemic assistance was disbursed, the state was also reeling from the killing of George Floyd by a Minneapolis police officer in May 2020, he said.
“This was a huge part of the problem,” Mr. Thompson said during an interview in the summer. “Allegations of racism can be a reputation or career killer.”

Mr. Walz, Minnesota’s second-term governor who gained national attention last year as Kamala Harris’s running mate in a White House bid, said this week that claims of racism did not hinder his administration’s response to fraud.
Mr. Walz has said that his administration may have erred on the side of generosity during the pandemic as the state pushed out large sums of money quickly, seeking to keep Minnesotans housed, fed and healthy.
“The programs are set up to move the money to people,” Mr. Walz said in an interview. “The programs are set up to improve people’s lives, and in many cases, the criminals find the loopholes.”
Mr. Walz, who is seeking a third term next year, has created a new task force to pursue fraud cases; made it easier for state agencies to share information with one another; and announced plans for new technology, including artificial intelligence tools, to spot suspicious billing practices.
“The message here in Minnesota,” Mr. Walz said, “is if you commit a crime, if you commit fraud against public dollars, you are going to go to prison.”

Fraud has already become a central issue in a competitive governor’s race. Lisa Demuth, a Republican and current Minnesota House speaker, accused the governor of raising taxes while letting “fraud run wild” in a video announcing her bid to replace Mr. Walz.
In recent months Mr. Walz’s administration began shutting down the housing program altogether, acknowledging that it was riddled with fraud. Last month the state hired an independent auditor to review claims for 14 other Medicaid-funded programs that the state said were at high risk of fraud.
“Greedy people and businesses have learned how to exploit our programs,” James Clark, the inspector general at the Department of Human Services, told lawmakers during a recent hearing. “Fraud is the business model.”
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So this fraud has been under investigation by federal law since 2022 and 59 people been prosecuted. 59 out of 80k ain't really all of the community. Probably higher percentage of honkys doing it and don't get me started on those Igbo's, they will be all over this 😜
 

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Inruin said:
What's your view on these guys bringing drugs in to the US and causing untold social harm including killing millions of Americans?
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They have to be stopped, but there have to be rules of engagement. There is also hypocrisy here. What have they done about the fentanyl epidemic. Cocaine, nothing because it was mainly a white middle class drug. Oxycodeine. Primarily the Sackler family, richer than god. It seems different rules apply to the Venezuelans
 
watcher said:
They have to be stopped, but there have to be rules of engagement. There is also hypocrisy here. What have they done about the fentanyl epidemic. Cocaine, nothing because it was mainly a white middle class drug. Oxycodeine. Primarily the Sackler family, richer than god. It seems different rules apply to the Venezuelans
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Interesting topic. There doesn't have to be any consideration by the drug suppliers of the deaths caused by drug importation but there does by the people stopping that importation.

It may also be that these particular boats are known, easier to observe, trace and engage.

Definitely levels of hypocrisy as you say.
 

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Tokyo Warrior said:
I think that much is clear, but you remain unconvinced. How about you show me where these organizations express the pro-Hamas views you believe they hold?
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If they aren't calling for Hamas to be removed, which from the AI piece you provided, it only seems the Gaza Citizens are, then they aren't acknowledging that Hamas are a big part of the issue. Not saying anything about Hamas is just as damning as voicing approval of them. Again, the funding and world wide demonstrations show there is widespread support for Hamas. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest there's not.
I don't think either of us will convince the other on this. Good chat though.
 
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