Current Affairs 🌡️ Weather / climate change

[MaybeTop8]

The first solar subsidies offered in NZ were under Shipley but, under pressure from the Greens, Helen Clark’s government removed them in favour of a cheap system, which was the only one with a subsidy offered.

The problem was, they did exactly what this current lot favour and only took advise from those who gave them the outcome they wanted and didn’t talk to those within the industry. Back in those days, photovoltaic solar panels were hugely expensive so grants were given to those installing solar water panels. The problem was, standard HWCs off the time available in NZ were galvanised, not stainless steel, so they weren’t suitable for solar water heating as they would corrode.

The Greens didn’t like that solar water heating wasn’t being adopted in huge numbers in NZ so, as part of their confidence and supply agreement, they wrote a specification for the only hot water solar system that would receive the government grant…. and it was so cheap, it covered only inferior products including a galvanized HWC. The installers hated the cut priced system and only two were installed in NZ.

It’s a pity because companies like Sola60 had some really good products but eventually went out of business. I personally specified their products, including German built stainless steel hot water cylinders designed specifically to be used for solar hot water installations for quite a few projects.

One of the heads from Sola60, moved across the Ditch and headed up one of the largest installers of solar panels/batteries in Queensland until he retired a few years ago. I’m still in contact with him as he’s a fountain of knowledge when it comes to solar systems.

Any links to this stuff Mike, just y'know, for reference

Presuming the technology is much better now.

 

[watcher]

In Melbourne we put in solar, it was about $6,000 bucks. I cannot rember how many panels, about 15. With a new meter we snuck in just before they lowered the rebate from about 38c to 32c.. then you got you power bills 3 monthly. The summer bills were $52 and $27., not bad for 6 months. It is the lowering rebate that is the issue.

 

[Tragic]

More solar is better cause then you get a distributed system that makes your network more resilient.
If it takes rebates to get that then I am for it.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

It is the lowering rebate that is the issue.

Solar has zero value, that's why the wholesale price of it is negative during the day. The rebate is further destroying the economics by forcing companies to pay for waste.

More solar is better cause then you get a distributed system that makes your network more resilient.

The complete opposite is true. You remove synchronous condensers that balance the system and massively increase both complexity and cost making the grid far more unstable. This has been written about at length.

Lack of grid resiliency is one of the reasons DC power was abandoned for AC back in the late 1800. This isnt a new issue

 

[miket12]

Any links to this stuff Mike, just y'know, for reference

Presuming the technology is much better now.

New Solar Grants leave manufacturers in the Dark

The $1000 solar water heating grants scheme recently upgraded from $500 by the Government has the potential to adversely impact profitability of new emerging solar water heating technologies which are excluded says David Senn, Managing Director of Econergy Limited.

m.scoop.co.nz

Economic efficiency of solar hot water policy in New Zealand

New Zealand has recently followed the path of several other countries in promoting solar hot water (SHW) systems in the effort to reduce greenhouse ga…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[MaybeTop8]

New Solar Grants leave manufacturers in the Dark

The $1000 solar water heating grants scheme recently upgraded from $500 by the Government has the potential to adversely impact profitability of new emerging solar water heating technologies which are excluded says David Senn, Managing Director of Econergy Limited.

m.scoop.co.nz

Economic efficiency of solar hot water policy in New Zealand

New Zealand has recently followed the path of several other countries in promoting solar hot water (SHW) systems in the effort to reduce greenhouse ga…

www.sciencedirect.com

Thanks. So we're talking problems of integration and maybe storage here, with the technology improving all the time, right now?

From what I've read, which is very limited, solar isn't the problem, it's one of storage and management at a very simplistic level.

Isolated to each house using hybrid technology would be a good start, and reduce the impact on the overall grid?

 

[miket12]

Thanks. So we're talking problems of integration and maybe storage here, with the technology improving all the time, right now?

From what I've read, which is very limited, solar isn't the problem, it's one of storage and management at a very simplistic level.

Isolated to each house using hybrid technology would be a good start, and reduce the impact on the overall grid?

The technology for solar hot water hasn’t improved a lot over time compared to generating electricity with solar panels and storage tech improving all the time. Also, the cost of the panels significantly dropped over the last 5-10 years. And, forget the conspiracy theories that it takes more energy to produce a solar panel than the energy that solar panel would save…. solar panels take between 2-3 years to produce the energy used to make them and then provide lifetime free generation for the next 14-20 years of the lifetime of the panel.

When I’m recommending systems for clients, I tell them to go for the best they can afford….. preferably that they can store excess energy and sell anything additional back to the local power supplier. They also need a way to isolate themselves from the power grid in a blackout…. last thing you want is for your system to supply power to a line a technician is working on thinking there was no power going down it. But, you still want to use the solar to generate your own power.

But also keep it as simple as possible for the homeowner… don’t want them to regret having the system because it’s too complicated. Go for the Coralla…. Not the Lambo.

 

[MaybeTop8]

The technology for solar hot water hasn’t improved a lot over time compared to generating electricity with solar panels and storage tech improving all the time. Also, the cost of the panels significantly dropped over the last 5-10 years. And, forget the conspiracy theories that it takes more energy to produce a solar panel than the energy that solar panel would save…. solar panels take between 2-3 years to produce the energy used to make them and then provide lifetime free generation for the next 14-20 years of the lifetime of the panel.

When I’m recommending systems for clients, I tell them to go for the best they can afford….. preferably that they can store excess energy and sell anything additional back to the local power supplier. They also need a way to isolate themselves from the power grid in a blackout…. last thing you want is for your system to supply power to a line a technician is working on thinking there was no power going down it. But, you still want to use the solar to generate your own power.

But also keep it as simple as possible for the homeowner… don’t want them to regret having the system because it’s too complicated. Go for the Coralla…. Not the Lambo.

Thanks Mike

 

[MrFrankWhite]

preferably that they can store excess energy and sell anything additional back to the local power supplier.

Feed in tariffs are dead. Countries are moving to feed in charges to penalise people dumping solar onto the grid.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

They also need a way to isolate themselves from the power grid in a blackout…. last thing you want is for your system to supply power to a line a technician is working on thinking there was no power going down it.

Strict regulations around this that the person installing must ensure it complies.