Why were lives lost at the base of Mauo? Because of the very wet weather? Ask yourself why the land slide occurred in the least steep part of the mountain. The answer is because the steeper sections have vegetation. The pohutukawa stabilize the cliff faces. Where these wonderful trees have been removed the land is less stable. The real issue is habitat destruction not some climate. mumbo jumbo.As we get slammed with extreme weather again and again, and more lives are needlessly lost, this government, in thrall with the fossil fuel industry and the far right, ignores science and continues to degrade this nation
Government rejects all of Climate Change Commission's emissions target recommendations
It comes despite a Climate Change Commission warning that New Zealand is being hit sooner and more severely than expected.www.rnz.co.nz
Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics
- Thread starter wizard of Tauranga
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NZWarriors.com
Jesus hard-core climate change denialist at work here. Not interested in disinformation
Absolutely Wiz. I certainly wasn't born with the proverbial Silver Spoon aye WizI don’t live in a tent fortunately. This isn’t post WW2 Tauranga anymore like when you grew up
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Right, so we are back to name calling, thats "the science" in action folks.
Why couldn't it be both extreme weather and the loss of vegetation? Seems the more likely.
Whether the extreme weather is due to climate change is another debate.
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- #22,166
Mount slip - There was lots of vegetation at that point, you can see huge potutakawa trees in amungst the slip.
There are natural springs around that location which could have destabilises the area priming it to move? (My local knowledge - nothing official)
We had best practice precautions - civil defence phone warnings, authorities went through the camp the night before. Accidents happen. Tragic stuff but nothing much more can be done when Mother Nature decides to show its power.
There are natural springs around that location which could have destabilises the area priming it to move? (My local knowledge - nothing official)
We had best practice precautions - civil defence phone warnings, authorities went through the camp the night before. Accidents happen. Tragic stuff but nothing much more can be done when Mother Nature decides to show its power.
NZWarriors.com
I have been there a lot of times and I don't remember a lot of vegetation just a pohutakawa here and there. With all the rain there very shallow root systems against the slope and rocks were compromised and let go. Again nothing official and just my observations.
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So that explains the landslide at Papamoa that killed two people also does it?
And the 2023 floods?
And unprecedented weather events across the globe we're seeing more regularly?
Sounds like you're peddling the mumbo jumbo pal.
NZWarriors.com
2c Worth from an old driller.
NZ is a very young country geologically with mainly a Greywacke base (or Schist down south) which is not as stable as basalt or granite. Being on major fault lines and having natural springs doesn't help. Vegetation can mitigate the issue but is really only a band aid. Drive around NZ and you'll see the scars everywhere of subsidence. We get a lot of it down here with steep ridges and little soil coverage over the rock.
Very unfortunate what happened at the mount but accidents happen, camped under there many times in the early 70s.
Climate like everything else on the planet, changes over time. We would be off better IMO spending our hard earned on mitigation rather than spending billions on trying to meet targets that can never be achieved.
NZ is a very young country geologically with mainly a Greywacke base (or Schist down south) which is not as stable as basalt or granite. Being on major fault lines and having natural springs doesn't help. Vegetation can mitigate the issue but is really only a band aid. Drive around NZ and you'll see the scars everywhere of subsidence. We get a lot of it down here with steep ridges and little soil coverage over the rock.
Very unfortunate what happened at the mount but accidents happen, camped under there many times in the early 70s.
Climate like everything else on the planet, changes over time. We would be off better IMO spending our hard earned on mitigation rather than spending billions on trying to meet targets that can never be achieved.
Great info Rick.
To add:
How about actually cutting back emissions and sunsetting the fossil fuel industry rather than accepting the obvious dark money flowing in behind the US government and the NZ government?
We can use Solar on every new build
We can utilise wind and tide generation
We can recycle
We can set up new manufacturing in New Zealand
We can look to improve rail, shipping, public transport, infrastructure
We can subsidise and introduce cheap ridesharing
All of these things will take time, but there's always no better time to start than now.
Yes, we can and are doing some of those things but I'm thinking it needs to be a neo liberal capitalist society to do so? More importantly, there is a cost which no one wants to pay. We are a small country with a spread population having a champagne diet on a beer income and until we gat a reformist government with big kahunas we will continue to meander along with a standard of living that drops slowly but surely every year. I honestly can't think of anyone currently in Parliament that I would consider a true reformist with the numbers to back it up
As for the fossil fuel transition, it's happening, albeit too slowly for some.
The biggest problem that we face isn't the race to replace oil and gas with wind and solar but to find alternatives for the thousands of everyday products that rely on O&G for their base. The petro chemical industry is far far larger than power generation or a tank of gasoline
Would be interested to hear about the dark oil money flowing behind the NZ Govt? If you can give me some examples I can check it out for you with a few contacts I have.
The US, certainly. Seen it in action many times. The place is a freak show on both sides of the fence
NZWarriors.com
Data from around the world (and NZ) clearly shows no increase in intensity or frequency of extreme weather events.
Tragic events, like the landslides this weekend, occur once or twice a decade in NZ. These have been well documented for the last 120 years or so since the country started keeping a central record. .
Some achieve more notoriety than others.
Think Tangiwai, think Wahine, think Bola, think the Paeroa floods.
What we do have is a MSM that reports very selectively to support the climate change narrative. This gives an impression that is counter to the facts.
Do you think the earth is flat or round?
Do you actually believe in physics, biology and chemistry?
Rick - we've had 50 years of reform. Neoliberal reform. It's failed us.
We need big kahunas to grab democracy and power back from the oligarchs and hard right.
They're not going to help us, they haven't yet, no chance of them changing their minds now.
This government is in the thrall of big tobacco, industries pushing to privatise health, big oil, the roading lobby and the gun lobby.
Take a look at the actions of Nz First and Act and it's members over the last three years. Those policies haven't come from the people of New Zealand.
NZWarriors.com
What we don’t hear is that while NZ’s CO2 emissions has dropped by over 25% since 2005 that China has increased theirs by over 300% in the same time frame. In 2024, NZ actually had the 12 biggest percentage decline of the over 200 countries and territories signed to the Paris Agreement. NZ currently produces 6.4 m Tonnes of CO2 per person annually. By comparison, Oz produces over 14 m Tonnes per person annually.
That’s why environment groups like to concentrate on agricultural emissions such as methane… letting people know how well we’re actually doing with other GHG’s doesn’t support their narrative.
NZ actually produces very little power generation through solar and thermal generation has overtaken hydro as our biggest generation source.
We should be using more solar generation on industrial buildings as well as rain water harvesting.
Another thing which is becoming more prevalent in Oz is the use of recycled plastics for roading as there’s less heat generated and lower temperatures than with “traditional” bitumen/aggregate roading methods.
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- #22,177
Being non emotional, the Auckland flood cost 4 lives and the Mount slip has 6 missing. We have more than that each and every week in the road toll.
Efforts into road safety, helping poverty, etc could save more lives than making everyone significantly poorer trying to save a relatively insignificant number of lives lost to the climate each year - for comparison, more die in house fires or water deaths than during weather events across a year.
Not trying to be cold or inhumane, just for the sake of debate comparing where our political and economic resources should be spent for best effectz
Yes, I support efficient ways to reduce our impact on the environment. I don’t support changes that will drive us into the third world.
Ps and yes the media and politicians love to focus on the mount slip of 6 deaths. Elsewhere a car crash with 6 deaths would be cleaned up and roads opened within hours and barely rate a mention in the news.
Again not being callous - I’m highly emotionally connected to the mount slip being local but just giving perspective.
Those Pohutakawa trees were growing on a steep slope at an angle putting a lot of stress on the root system to just hang on.
Makes sense that stress will become more intense as they grow bigger & then drenched with the rain .Plus as you say the root systems compromised by underground springs. (Just my opinion & what I have experienced with these trees on the Thames Coast roads.)
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How about you post the data from around the world (and NZ) then if it's so clear?
And post some evidence of the trees being removed from the slip?
Otherwise you look like a bit of a cooker going on about MSM.
Can you share this data? I am interested
