International Pacific Championship

[JustLikeStartingOver]

this Katoa thing is terrible for the code, thats one of the elite players, being treated like a disposable piece of meat.

Tonga won't have the same perspective, they seem to be heavily influenced by their senior players, and he obviously wanted to play.

Woolf should be removed anyway based on results, but the NRL should be on the warpath over this

 

[Zaggo]

I've been at every Kiwis game in Auckland/Hamilton over the last decade or so, and a massive change over the last couple of years is the demographic that's attending as Kiwi fans.

In the past it was largely slightly older, fairly grizzled buggers, who generally looked like they'd been in and around the game for yonks.

Recently, particularly yesterday, I've been seeing far more young white fans, which will be setting off alarm bells for the NZRU - that's their bread and butter. I've been seeing the tide turning with Wahs fans but seems Kiwis are now experiencing the same.

It's a big injection of life and energy into the fan base, really good to see for the future of the game.

 

[juju]

I've been at every Kiwis game in Auckland/Hamilton over the last decade or so, and a massive change over the last couple of years is the demographic that's attending as Kiwi fans.

In the past it was largely slightly older, fairly grizzled buggers, who generally looked like they'd been in and around the game for yonks.

Recently, particularly yesterday, I've been seeing far more young white fans, which will be setting off alarm bells for the NZRU - that's their bread and butter. I've been seeing the tide turning with Wahs fans but seems Kiwis are now experiencing the same.

It's a big injection of life and energy into the fan base, really good to see for the future of the game.

Take the Tongan fan's out of the equation and we're probably looking at under 4k Kiwi fans though likely.

The disparity in support is insane really.

 

[mrblonde]

Would be great if the final could be held in Apia or Nukualofa in the future. Stadiums probably need upgrades to accomodate it though. Anyone know how the stadiums there compare to the one where PNG played, or Fiji (Lautoka) where they have had NRL games via the Storm? The winners of this years Pacific Cup has been the PI crowds for sure. Freaking loved what they have brought into it.

There's the issue right there. The stadiums need upgrading. That money's going to have to come from somewhere. Nobody sensible is going to give that money unless they can see a decent return on that investment. And outside of us league tragics, who's going to want their taxdollar/ratedollar spent on that?

this Katoa thing is terrible for the code, thats one of the elite players, being treated like a disposable piece of meat.

Tonga won't have the same perspective, they seem to be heavily influenced by their senior players, and he obviously wanted to play.

Woolf should be removed anyway based on results, but the NRL should be on the warpath over this

Several people need their heads put on sticks for that.
And it just goes to show that you don't take a player's word for it if they want to play on. Of course they're going to say "I'm fine!" if they're not in immediate distress or think they can shake whatever injury off.
Sometimes "Duty of care" means ignoring what the player says.

 

[sup42]

this Katoa thing is terrible for the code, thats one of the elite players, being treated like a disposable piece of meat.

Tonga won't have the same perspective, they seem to be heavily influenced by their senior players, and he obviously wanted to play.

Woolf should be removed anyway based on results, but the NRL should be on the warpath over this

First thing the NRL needs to review is why the independent Doctor failed with the warm up. Was it because they don't require the Doctor to watch the players till the game starts?

Next they need to have all their medical experts hold a incident review, to look at where their systems failed and to make changes to the current system.

This thing needs to be run medically by the medical staff, because they are the most informed voices, they are the voices the NRL will defer to, and they are the people with the specific expertise.

The same medical review obviously needs to include the team Doctors. None of this need be made public. But it will be anyway, because the NRL knows they need to be seen to be doing something.

As for the coaches position, that is difficult, because he is acting off the Doctors calls. The NRL need to get to the heart of why the team Doctor did not do an HIA in that warm up.

Basically the fault lies first with the Doctors.

Even if players and or coaches pressure the Doctors to overlook stuff, it is a Doctors ethical and professional duty of care to ignore all of that and act accordingly.

It is quite possible no Doctor saw Katoa TKO'd in the warm up.

I have a big problem with the physios and trainers roles in this sport, the dudes who splash water and say 'he is all good trust me bro"......because they are the first port of call....the eyes on the players....the ones who say 'he needs a Doc'.......

 

[skinnydippng]

Eli posted an instagram story this morning, hope he’s doing okay

 

[sup42]

Take the Tongan fan's out of the equation and we're probably looking at under 4k Kiwi fans though likely.

The disparity in support is insane really.

Long term the atmosphere the Island people have created is going to draw NZ fans and neutrals to the game eh.

Provided the games are awesome (tick) the atmosphere is great (triple tick) and the NZ team hold their own (tick).

Never thought that would be the case when this thing first started (I was there when NZ played Samoa for the first time and experienced the being outnumbered, the haka booing etc first hand day one) back then I thought NZ league is dead and gone.

But the Island fans are gonna draw in White NZders and Aussies over time as they see that you can see a brutal clash with flare and genuine chance of an upset win and hear the tremendous thundering noise of the crowd.

Hell I even want to go again just to hear that singing on the telly, when I saw Samoa there was no singing back then.

 

[Sugar Ray]

Take the Tongan fan's out of the equation and we're probably looking at under 4k Kiwi fans though likely.

The disparity in support is insane really.

I think the Kiwis really need to win the World Cup to generate some buzz over the team again. Winning is the best promoter. You'd think smashing the Aussies 30 - 0 a couple years ago would've done something to bring fans in, but it didn't seem to do much.

I'm not a Kiwis fan, but if I was, I'd be so buzzed about this squad. It looks special.

 

[kos]

First thing the NRL needs to review is why the independent Doctor failed with the warm up. Was it because they don't require the Doctor to watch the players till the game starts?

Next they need to have all their medical experts hold a incident review, to look at where their systems failed and to make changes to the current system.

This thing needs to be run medically by the medical staff, because they are the most informed voices, they are the voices the NRL will defer to, and they are the people with the specific expertise.

The same medical review obviously needs to include the team Doctors. None of this need be made public. But it will be anyway, because the NRL knows they need to be seen to be doing something.

As for the coaches position, that is difficult, because he is acting off the Doctors calls. The NRL need to get to the heart of why the team Doctor did not do an HIA in that warm up.

Basically the fault lies first with the Doctors.

Even if players and or coaches pressure the Doctors to overlook stuff, it is a Doctors ethical and professional duty of care to ignore all of that and act accordingly.

It is quite possible no Doctor saw Katoa TKO'd in the warm up.

I have a big problem with the physios and trainers roles in this sport, the dudes who splash water and say 'he is all good trust me bro"......because they are the first port of call....the eyes on the players....the ones who say 'he needs a Doc'.......

Is there a possibility that NZ Gov Occupational health and safety investigates.
Who is the governing body NZRL ? NRL? IRL?

Who pays for Starship Hospital stay surgeons etc? Eli wont be covered by the standard no charge for Nz citizens.
Crikey I hope he pulls up ok. he was let down big time.

 

[sup42]

Eli posted an instagram story this morning, hope he’s doing okay
View attachment 14848

Well that is great news to hear from his account.

Looks like Accident and Emergency in the Assessment Unit.

Looks like they had to prick him full of holes to get venous access.

The two most encouraging things are we presume he typed that message and from that limited shot he does not appear to be in I.C.U (at least not at that time of posting).

 

[Noitall]

Long term the atmosphere the Island people have created is going to draw NZ fans and neutrals to the game eh.

Provided the games are awesome (tick) the atmosphere is great (triple tick) and the NZ team hold their own (tick).

Never thought that would be the case when this thing first started (I was there when NZ played Samoa for the first time and experienced the being outnumbered, the haka booing etc first hand day one) back then I thought NZ league is dead and gone.

But the Island fans are gonna draw in White NZders and Aussies over time as they see that you can see a brutal clash with flare and genuine chance of an upset win and hear the tremendous thundering noise of the crowd.

Hell I even want to go again just to hear that singing on the telly, when I saw Samoa there was no singing back then.

Crazy that the arrests after Tonga vs Samoa in Aussie were over here. NZ seems to have the large Tongan representation and Aussie, or at least Queensland where that game was seems to have a large Samoan representation. Interesting that when we played Samoa first, that was the booing of the haka and Stacey Jones calling for respect for the haka, I thought Tonga would be even worse but they were hugely respectful during the haka and were buzzing like when Tonga was giving their Sipi Tau. The singing for the NZ national anthem gave me the impression that we are their second team but hugely support home first and foremost

 

[tyrael]

Kalyn is traditionally a girls name anyway.

So is Stacey, what's your point?

 

[Zaggo]

Take the Tongan fan's out of the equation and we're probably looking at under 4k Kiwi fans though likely.

The disparity in support is insane really.

I disagree. There were actually quite a few Kiwis fans there, far more than I was expecting and far, far more than there were at the equivalent fixture a couple of years ago.

It was still clearly Tongan majority but the Kiwis support is trending in the right direction.

 

[snake77]

We now know they did not test Katoa after the worst collision which was the Warm up where we saw him felled to the ground in a boxing style knock down.

If he wasn't tested after the warm-up collision, that is shocking.

During the warm up you have more time to assess the player compared to the time pressure during the game.

That was a bad knock for a warm-up. During the warm-up up the cameras will be moving around, focusing on more areas whereas in during a game and the ball is in play you are following the ball. So, they all focus on the ball/tackle.

It was down to luck that the collision was captured on camera.

It was reported in the commentary that he passed his HIA. What was the communication from the doctors, team management to ground staff to the media?

I keep thinking about Shaun Johnson's reaction in the SKY build up to the sickening scenes of the warm up knock out - SJ say's what we all are thinking "surely he cannot play after that".

I was thinking the same thing when I saw it as well. That force straight to the head during the game we'd have been debating the sin bin.

If he wasn't going to be pulled out of the side. Did they consider moving him to the bench and have more time to assess him? At least then you could appease the player who would be stubborn and wanting to play, maybe he'd calm down and feel that he isn't up to playing. Yes, the opposite could happen and he decides he's fine.

Still would have been a better option than starting him.



The Storm will rightly be asking about how their player was treated. Clubs are suspect about releasing their players to other teams and medical personnel as it is.

3 head knocks in close succession could lead to a long period off the field.

The one saving grace is he now has the off season to recover and they can review him.

 

[snake77]

The Tongan and Samoan fans with the flags and singing add a lot to the atmosphere for the internationals.

The next Australia vs New Zealand game will be an interesting comparison. It's not just the NZ crowds that haven't been great; the Aussies also seem to switch off after the NRL Grand Final.

 

[Noitall]

The Tongan and Samoan fans with the flags and singing add a lot to the atmosphere for the internationals.

The next Australia vs New Zealand game will be an interesting comparison. It's not just the NZ crowds that haven't been great; the Aussies also seem to switch off after the NRL Grand Final.

It’s not just league though as far as the Pacific fans turning out to support their teams. I can recall the 2011 world cup here that Tonga set the tone with All Blacks facing them first up and the crowd had a strong red theme in that too

 

[sup42]

If he wasn't tested after the warm-up collision, that is shocking.

Woolf confirmed he was not tested. I posted a link from RNZ news.

Woolf says it is not his responsibility to question the Doctors.

That attitude needs to change.

Everyone in this modern age knows it is our responsibility to ask questions of the medical profession. We do it with our own health, with the health of our loved ones, we ask Doctors questions all the time, and sometimes, when we are not happy with the answers we apply pressure.

 

[Boats n Hoes]

Take the Tongan fan's out of the equation and we're probably looking at under 4k Kiwi fans though likely.

The disparity in support is insane really.

It wouldve been a sea of empty seats and one small pocket of black in a stadium like that.

The "wah's" movement has captured the disillusioned with rugby crowd and the band wagoners, however that's yet to transition to the Kiwi's. And tbh thats going to be bloody hard to create a ground swell when you only get a couple of games a year and the brand is run by an amateurish board.

That Aussie/Kiwi's final in Hamilton (in moo loo country for god sake!} a few years back deserved far better exposure than what it got.

 

[roguei]

It wouldve been a sea of empty seats and one small pocket of black in a stadium like that.

The "wah's" movement has captured the disillusioned with rugby crowd and the band wagoners, however that's yet to transition to the Kiwi's. And tbh thats going to be bloody hard to create a ground swell when you only get a couple of games a year and the brand is run by an amateurish board.

That Aussie/Kiwi's final in Hamilton (in moo loo country for god sake!} a few years back deserved far better exposure than what it got.

Wahs fans does not equal kiwis though. I'd say 95% of the tongan fans i talked to are warriors fans. I think the "wahs" movement has 100% translated to a rise in international league. It's just sprinkled over all of the pasfic islands outside of aus.

 

[Noitall]

It wouldve been a sea of empty seats and one small pocket of black in a stadium like that.

The "wah's" movement has captured the disillusioned with rugby crowd and the band wagoners, however that's yet to transition to the Kiwi's. And tbh thats going to be bloody hard to create a ground swell when you only get a couple of games a year and the brand is run by an amateurish board.

That Aussie/Kiwi's final in Hamilton (in moo loo country for god sake!} a few years back deserved far better exposure than what it got.

I agree, it would have looked ridiculous yesterday at the bigger Eden Park had it not been for the Tongan supporters. While Aussie has been doing their thing in England, the Pacific Championship hasn’t missed them one bit and it should embolden these nations to band together because Australia has too much power in the international scene. All refs Australian even when they are playing like the Woman’s game yesterday. Needs to deep pockets to set it up because Aussie is looking after its own interests primarily and concentrating on origin while trying to sell that they are intent on growing internationals. Nrl clubs pay the salaries of the players but there’s no reason nrl should be in charge of international league