General Who Coaches Nyc Defence?

bigstu

1st Grade Fringe
May 18, 2012
370
Auckland, New Zealand
with a number of juniors coming through to the top squad and only a handful having the defencive capabilities to handle first grade do we need some fresh coaching ideas in our junior ranks. Are these young juniors not being taught the correct defencive skills should we bring in a special defence coach in at development level so we are not needing to teach these NYC graduates the art of defence when they break through to the top squad.
 

HornbyBrown

1st Grade Fringe
Jul 1, 2012
658
I heard that they want to go with a new style of D to confuse the other team.

So they hired a former Netball coach.

Looks that way to me.
 

mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
Jun 21, 2012
22,810
Mt. Wellington, Auckland
Good idea about a Defence Development type person but IMO it needs to start well before they get to the NYC level. I know they have development schools for promising 14-16 year olds but I think it only lasts a week. These processes need to start at early club level so the malleable minds of the young can have the best possible chance of adding that skill to their knowledge base. By the time they get to NYC level they would have learnt alot of bad habits that are ingrained in their game and the hardest thing will be trying to untrain that behavior. You'll forever be playing catchup as a coach.

Even if they started with a handbook thats given to every coach in the country it would be a start. And not just tackling, but passing and playing the ball, etc. The real basics. As the teams get older and more advanced then so should the basic instructions.

In one of the Warriors books I read, former coach John Monie wasnt happy because Ali Lauitiiti couldnt make a long pass or even play the ball properly. When he raised his concerns with the Development Officer at the time, Bob Hall, he was told that Ali didnt have those skills cause he simply didnt need to. As a kid, all he had to do was know how to catch the ball and dive over the line. Monie couldnt believe it. He thought Ali had the most natural raw talent he had ever seen but the guy couldnt pass the ball!

This is the challenge that any Junior Development Officer will face. In reality, we need a small team with a view to the long term as any investment wont bear fruit for at least 2-4 years, but its one I feel we cannot possibly continue to ignore. Eric Watson and Sir Owen Glenn made noise about developing the youth program. I hope they plan to do more then just give Stacey Jones, as the Warriors Junior Recruitment and Pathways Officer, a salary. Until they do, we will continue to see the same defensive capitulations that embarassed the U20's against the Eels and we will continue to see that filter through to the top side.

The days of our big lads steamrolling the opposition are over. Other teams have simply selected their own big players and with the cancelling effect thats had, it then becomes a game of who is the more skilled or developed. Sadly, it looks like we are on the losing side of that battle...
 

BHP

U20's Player
May 9, 2012
128
I also think it has alot to do with players starting to play league late, You look at someone like David Bhana who has pretty much played league his whole life; so he has all the skills and is a very good defender. Then you look at the ex 1st XV boys getting game time over long time league players because they were big names in rugby but still dont know how to play league at the NYC level, they have all the natural talent but they havent been taught how to use it.
 
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Sexymonkey

U20's Player
Aug 5, 2012
33
I also think it has alot to do with players starting to play league late, You look at someone like David Bhana who has pretty much played league his whole life; so he has all the skills and is a very good defender. Then you look at the ex 1st XV boys getting game time over long time league players because they were big names in rugby but still dont know how to play league at the NYC level, they have all the natural talent but they havent been taught how to use it.
Agree. When those 1st XV stars make the switch to NYC , their defensive weakness are revealed.
 

Raurimu Massive

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 26, 2012
2,875
Whangarei
Whether they've had a league background or not, the ability to learn new skills or approaches to the game shouldn't be beyond the U20s members. The determination and work ethic to keep on learning should be something that never, ever, stops (in league and in life, really). Maybe that should be one of the main criteria for moving on to the higher levels of the game. Massive athlete, but an inability to learn? Bye bye.[DOUBLEPOST=1363901789,1363885730][/DOUBLEPOST]Just a sobering bit of food for thought here... with the way that the U20 teams from the Aussie clubs seem to have realised that a well-drilled defensive effort can beat the steamrollers in our own U20s team, doesn't that mean that we're essentially doing Australian league a massive favour by encouraging their players to get even better at a younger age? Especially bearing in mind that to get into an Aussie club's junior team, you'd have to come up through a well developed youth system in the first place. Any degree of trickle down effect will also mean that players wanting to get into U20 teams will realise that they stand a better chance if they already have the right attitude.

Add to that, the steamrollers seem to struggle a wee bit when they get older, and as we've noted, show a worrying lack of skill, structure and nous on the field.

With steamroller U20s, aren't we basically just helping Aussie out, while weakening our own future?
 
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t-wade23

1st Grade Fringe
Jun 7, 2012
736
Im not sure on how high schools do this but for intermediate schools i know the process since i am a PE Co-ordinator at a school in south auckland and it is alarming the skills the kids are being taught these days.

Ok this is how it goes before the term starts each year you get an outline on when school tournaments are and how many weeks you have to prep your school intil tournament time usually you get a about 6-weeks to 8 weeks depending on a number of things. So once you get the outline you are then given an assortment of session plans or training programs by the governing body of the sport you are teaching in the last two years case it was Auckland Rugby League and then your are asked to implement these into your team's sesssions every time you train so for us for when league is on training is usually 3-4 days a week for about a 1 hour and a half and man the session plans only detail attacking aspects such as passing,kicking running with ball in hand and some skills that only certain kids would know how to do (Halves) Like grubber kicks chip kicks and bombs saw nothing for defense whatso ever why would you teach a prop on how to do a correct grubber kick or a flick pass??. Also have seen in the past in training sessions about flick passes amongst other things. So what i decided to do was scrap the ARL approach of sessions and just create my own implementing all the skills needed for league. I started teaching kids the shuffling of defensive lines like the compressed defense and numbering up in tackles to many kids in my case had no idea how to or knew what numbering up in tackles was after all that last year we went from last to 2nd just by pretty much teaching the basics and fundementals

The lack of teaching kids the fundementals of the game starts from a younger age too many kids now want to be SBW or Benji or Shaun Johnson and not want to concentrate on the little things like effective tackling,defensive reads running angles amongst other things. I think this has a lot to do with the kids coming out in NZ now you only get a few that are hard workers and know how to play solid defense alot of people think that having someone big on the edge in the centers or second row is a good defensive apporach when really if you have taught the kid nothing on reads,anticipation or effective tackling the kids from NZ are always going to struggle on defense.

The point is that kids nowadays have no desire or commitment to learn the art of playing defense and there not forced to which is a shame for me because being a effective defender is just important as being a good attacker.
 

Raurimu Massive

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 26, 2012
2,875
Whangarei
If we've got Auckland Rugby League worrying more about teaching kids to do flick passes than tackling, it's no frigging wonder the younger players in the Warriors have been found wanting at NRL level. Loads of us wailing on Elijah Taylor for his no-look passes, but hell he's probably been brought up through the league ranks learning that it's a Very Good Thing; it's a wonder he doesn't combine it with a Campese goosestep. It all points to a disgustingly high level of naivety in NZ League.
 
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BHP

U20's Player
May 9, 2012
128
Im not sure on how high schools do this but for intermediate schools i know the process since i am a PE Co-ordinator at a school in south auckland and it is alarming the skills the kids are being taught these days.

Ok this is how it goes before the term starts each year you get an outline on when school tournaments are and how many weeks you have to prep your school intil tournament time usually you get a about 6-weeks to 8 weeks depending on a number of things. So once you get the outline you are then given an assortment of session plans or training programs by the governing body of the sport you are teaching in the last two years case it was Auckland Rugby League and then your are asked to implement these into your team's sesssions every time you train so for us for when league is on training is usually 3-4 days a week for about a 1 hour and a half and man the session plans only detail attacking aspects such as passing,kicking running with ball in hand and some skills that only certain kids would know how to do (Halves) Like grubber kicks chip kicks and bombs saw nothing for defense whatso ever why would you teach a prop on how to do a correct grubber kick or a flick pass??. Also have seen in the past in training sessions about flick passes amongst other things. So what i decided to do was scrap the ARL approach of sessions and just create my own implementing all the skills needed for league. I started teaching kids the shuffling of defensive lines like the compressed defense and numbering up in tackles to many kids in my case had no idea how to or knew what numbering up in tackles was after all that last year we went from last to 2nd just by pretty much teaching the basics and fundementals

The lack of teaching kids the fundementals of the game starts from a younger age too many kids now want to be SBW or Benji or Shaun Johnson and not want to concentrate on the little things like effective tackling,defensive reads running angles amongst other things. I think this has a lot to do with the kids coming out in NZ now you only get a few that are hard workers and know how to play solid defense alot of people think that having someone big on the edge in the centers or second row is a good defensive apporach when really if you have taught the kid nothing on reads,anticipation or effective tackling the kids from NZ are always going to struggle on defense.

The point is that kids nowadays have no desire or commitment to learn the art of playing defense and there not forced to which is a shame for me because being a effective defender is just important as being a good attacker.

Great post t-wade. sorry about your eagles season. but yeah agree with a lot of your post, I feel it is the same in a lot sports in NZ, trainings always seem to focus on attack and every now and then you have a tackling drill mixed in.
 

t-wade23

1st Grade Fringe
Jun 7, 2012
736
It is really sad tbh because it teaches kids from an early age that not working on all aspects of your game is ok and you dont have to do anything if you dont want to do it in regards to training and being the same year in year out is fine and you shouldnt be looking to improve. It is espcially tough when your trying to teach kids the basics or core aspects of something they have not bein learnt and you just get the "oh by we dont do this at our club" Which i dont blame them for because they arent getting taught bad habbits at there clubs as well. I know these kids are young but it must be instillied from them in a young age to work hard and be dedicated.
 

Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
5,582
If we've got Auckland Rugby League worrying more about teaching kids to do flick passes than tackling, it's no frigging wonder the younger players in the Warriors have been found wanting at NRL level. Loads of us wailing on Elijah Taylor for his no-look passes, but hell he's probably been brought up through the league ranks learning that it's a Very Good Thing; it's a wonder he doesn't combine it with a Campese goosestep. It all points to a disgustingly high level of naivety in NZ League.
I was talking to a Union coach who said young are getting super rugby contracts who don't know the basic of draw and pass. The young Polynesian guys mature faster it seems so we almost have a bully attitude of they can't stop me and as I am bigger and stronger they can't get past me as I am faster and stronger. I think also that these guys are used to playing in their own age groups. The days of league and Union clubs where the rplayers showed the young guns the way are a thing of the past. IMO the best teams have a mixture. That is why I think the Vulcans are more important than NYC, I still want the NYC but regarded as the bottom rung of the ladder

I find it nuts, but not overly surprised that defence was overlooked. It is a shame because a sustained defensive effort is on of the most satisfying things a team can do in rugby, that is the way to approach it, defence is about attitude, a state of mind.
 

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