General Where are our Wingers at?

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bigstu

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the weakest position in the team arguably is our wings sure we have manu and tupou but beneath them we have nothing coming through. what annoys me the most is you look at rugby in this country and there would almost be ten wingers that could play for the all blacks why is it we can't unearth wings as easy as they can. are we trying to recruit the wrong type of player i.e. are we just looking for the next big manu and turning a blind eye to other players who show more skill and speed but less power than the giant slow guys.
 
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Dankokoro 2.0

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Why don't you say why you think the thread isn't worthwhile, rather than posting some smartass pic..Was it because he didn't capitalise at the start of each sentance? That aside, perfectly valid discussion points in my opinion..
 
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fanrrior

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*cough* I believe our Wingers are at Dream World:p

Tbh I don't know if the all blacks are the best comparison/analogy since they don't have to worry about the salary cap and that they have the Crusaders, Blues etc as their version of the Vulcans. But that doesn't invalidate your point about our wingers.

I think the fact our wingers aren't used properly (or at least the way a normal winger performs anyway) would constitue to how we percieve their efforts. Having said that, I think that Tupou and Vatuvei (usually) play well though considering how the club seems to use them.

Another poin that should be made is that their might not be many wingers wanting to play for the Warriors knowing that they'd have to play only when Vatuvei gets injured. Tupou is also making progress albiet rather slowly and seems to have cemented his position for now. So uh yeah, to me it seems like its something we will have to put up with :(
 
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¿N. ig-mah¿

¿N. ig-mah¿

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We do have Fish for back up (not my first choice, but the club and Fish have mentioned the possibility), and it seems Omar is getting his chance. We could also draw on Dylan Collier from the Vulcans, and Hiku from the Juniors will be a force in the next year of so. We may not have the best selection of wingers, but there are some options there.
 
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Tim burgess

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It's a valid point, one winger I do. Like watching is David mead from titans
 
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iago

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Why don't you say why you think the thread isn't worthwhile, rather than posting some smartass pic..Was it because he didn't capitalise at the start of each sentance? That aside, perfectly valid discussion points in my opinion..

Nah, I no longer expect capitals on here. Not that I'd dislike a point solely based on that. Granted that post wasn't necessary, in my view this topic has been well covered. In fact one of your members from the old site 2black2strong used to regularly bring up how few wingers our U20's have produced.

Tbh I don't know if the all blacks are the best comparison/analogy since they don't have to worry about the salary cap and that they have the Crusaders, Blues etc as their version of the Vulcans. But that doesn't invalidate your point about our wingers.

I think the fact our wingers aren't used properly (or at least the way a normal winger performs anyway) would constitue to how we percieve their efforts. Having said that, I think that Tupou and Vatuvei (usually) play well though considering how the club seems to use them.

He wasn't comparing the Warriors with the All Blacks directly, he was comparing them (in a round-a-bout) way to the Super 15 franchises by suggesting the AB's have 10 or so wingers to choose from. It has nothing to do with the salary cap, we're talking about how few wingers we produce at a youth level. Our U20's don't produce wingers the same way they have in every other position. Bill Tupou is not in the same league as Johnson (half), Matulino (prop), Packer (prop), Fai (backrower), Locke (fullback), Hurrell (centre)....and he's the best winger we've produced through that system (and yes I am aware Manu came through our age group levels before the Toyota Cup existed).

Back to the OP...I don't think we're holding out for the next big anything. The U20's are after anyone with a hint of talent and interested in league. I'd be incredibly surprised if the scouts are sent out with a 'don't worry too much about wingers' brief. For whatever reason we just haven't had an abundance of talent on the wing come through our youth grades. I'm starting to think similar regarding the attacking prowess of the backrowers we're producing. In stark contrast to what you'd expect from an Auckland based league or union team, we're producing defensive dynamos instead of SBW's. Why? Anyone's guess.
 
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facefacts

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the weakest position in the team arguably is our wings sure we have manu and tupou but beneath them we have nothing coming through. what annoys me the most is you look at rugby in this country and there would almost be ten wingers that could play for the all blacks why is it we can't unearth wings as easy as they can. are we trying to recruit the wrong type of player i.e. are we just looking for the next big manu and turning a blind eye to other players who show more skill and speed but less power than the giant slow guys.

You make a good point about the type of player the club looks at, and the 20's comp isn't going to help the situation, because we all know junior league is dominated by size and
power, which leaves the lighter faster kids unlikely to find a place in the side, unless it's in the halves or maybe fullback...and lets face it, coach's want to win, and they will
choose the good big guy over the good smaller guy nearly every time.

If the club needs to be alerted to Shaun Johnson by a gold coast scout, rather than being aware of his existence long before that happened...then our talent scouts need to
leave South Auckland once in awhile.
 
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Magic Stick

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Manu has picked up a ton of injuries lost speed...been used poorly as a battering ram and likely heading to the forwards in the near future

Bill Tupou is just mud

Omar will step up in Manu's absence and over shadow the rubbish Tupou...Young Hiku looks promising...but so did Tupou,Ah Van, Niko etc

If i was Dean Bell id be scouring planet earth for a couple of wings
 
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a.c.e

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we sent one of our wingers over to the Dogs. . . . . .
 
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Sup42

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I'm in the Tupou's camp.

He's getting better with experience , and even if he had further to go than more naturally talented players , i think Tupou is setting the kind of example the rest of the team need to follow.

Work hard with what you have and go forwards not up and down week by week.

Totally agree with Big Stu's sentiment , All blacks versus Super 15 franchises is just semantics. The truth is the Rugby game has the pick of the available Talent in this country.
Kiwis versus All Blacks : The All blacks have never had to play Centers in the Halves to fill in selection gaps, neither has the Kangaroos.

As for wingers , Omar is a rugby convert , ( Hurrell is for that matter as well neither are ranked Rugby players ).

My favorite old chestnut argument is that League will never compete until it is played in schools at the same level of representation as minor sports like basketball and hockey.

Because it is a bastardisation of Union It gets special Repression treatment on all levels politically to keep it segregated.

People are fond of pointing out the growth at school boy level , but when My lad wrote a letter to the board of trustees at his school asking to be able to play league the reply was a polite explanation that the expense was cost prohibitive , the same school boasted a net worth of Four hundred and fifty million dollars two years ago....
 
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koolkat

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We do have Fish for back up (not my first choice, but the club and Fish have mentioned the possibility), and it seems Omar is getting his chance. We could also draw on Dylan Collier from the Vulcans, and Hiku from the Juniors will be a force in the next year of so. We may not have the best selection of wingers, but there are some options there.
But then we get back too that old argument which is experience.that we don't have in the in the wing department at the moment.but like fanrrior allueded too we have a salary cap that constrains us so we have to go with what we have right now.
 
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¿N. ig-mah¿

¿N. ig-mah¿

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But then we get back too that old argument which is experience.that we don't have in the in the wing department at the moment.but like fanrrior allueded too we have a salary cap that constrains us so we have to go with what we have right now.
We are, naturally, going to be limited in experience when we are developing rahter than recruiting. And as mentioned by another poster, when you have Manu in your team, the opportunities to gain experience are going to be limited as well.

But of course the only way to get experience is to play. So this is Omar's shot to gain all important experience, and convince the club that we need to retain him next year and not allow him tosign with the Sharks or $ouffs.
 
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koolkat

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Manu has picked up a ton of injuries lost speed...been used poorly as a battering ram and likely heading to the forwards in the near future

Bill Tupou is just mud
E
Omar will step up in Manu's absence and over shadow the rubbish Tupou...Young Hiku looks promising...but so did Tupou,Ah Van, Niko etch

If i was Dean Bell id be scouring planet earth for a couple of wings
I don't wanna be the bearer of bad news but the bunnys are sniffing around Omar big time.i hope we get to keep him but if the bunnys offer is better I think we see him in rabbitohs colors next season.And billy tupou played in the senior grade G/F last season and looked solid as. We have to be patient...he as the talent somebody just has to get it out of him. And that's bill himself
 
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¿N. ig-mah¿

¿N. ig-mah¿

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I don't wanna be the bearer of bad news but the bunnys are sniffing around Omar big time.i hope we get to keep him but if the bunnys offer is better I think we see him in rabbitohs colors next season.And billy tupou played in the senior grade G/F last season and looked solid as. We have to be patient...he as the talent somebody just has to get it out of him. And that's bill himself
My thinking is that Omar will need a bit more than money to tempt him. From my experience, refugee families stick pretty close together and it takes a lot for one of them to break away and move to another city/country. His family would be unlikely to follow him to Australia as there are a few other siblings doing well for themselves in NZ. I think (maybe hope is a better word) that he is just trying to increase his worth at the Warriors with these other offers from Souths and the Sharks. I think as long as the warriors are competitive and give him a real shot at first grade, he will stay. It may come down to whether he prefers fullback or is happy to play on the wing. He has no chance against Locke unless something serious happens, and I assume the club would still rate Fish as number 2 fullback long-term. If he takes his chances and gets utilised by his inside men, I think Omar will push Billy out of first grade for next year.
 
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bigstu

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But then we get back too that old argument which is experience.that we don't have in the in the wing department at the moment.but like fanrrior allueded too we have a salary cap that constrains us so we have to go with what we have right now.
how are we restrained by salary cap issues if you compare the warriors to say the bulldogs who are almost full of imported players yet still keep signing big name players and still come under the cap surely the warriors are not even close to having there cap filled especially when you look at how young and inexperienced this side is.

we may not have enough wing talent back here in nz maybe the warriors need more eyes and ears over the ditch scouting all the grades over there. we now have a owner where money is not an issue so why not spend more money on finding talent not just in nz.
 
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Dankokoro 2.0

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Manu has picked up a ton of injuries lost speed...been used poorly as a battering ram and likely heading to the forwards in the near future

Bill Tupou is just mud

Omar will step up in Manu's absence and over shadow the rubbish Tupou...Young Hiku looks promising...but so did Tupou,Ah Van, Niko etc

If i was Dean Bell id be scouring planet earth for a couple of wings
lol that is so harsh on Bill Tupou.. How is he mud? He's not Jason Nightingale but he's solid at the very least.. he finishes well, doesn't make many errors, and his defense is much improved imo..

Sure i can imagine having a winger with a bit more x-factor, but he's earned his place in the team imo.. and we can't afford superstars in every position

What exactly do you expect of him that he's not currently doing?
 
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Hitman82

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Yeah I am not down with the Tupou hate. I really just don't see what he does that is so bad? I think he's a solid to good first grader, without being a superstar. He's also pretty young and still developing in first grade. I recently saw a stats rundown which showed he's a damn sight better than Vatuvei, who is apparently a world class winger and our highest paid player...
 
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bigstu

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yup tupous running metres were just behind manus but his error rate was nowhere near as bad as manus and they aren't far off in the scoring stats this season
 
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Danpatmac

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Yeah I am not down with the Tupou hate. I really just don't see what he does that is so bad? I think he's a solid to good first grader, without being a superstar. He's also pretty young and still developing in first grade. I recently saw a stats rundown which showed he's a damn sight better than Vatuvei, who is apparently a world class winger and our highest paid player...
My problem with Tupou is twofold:

1. He is terrible at handling grubbers and turning and chasing.
2. He looks gumby.

The 2nd one is totally subjective and opinion based, I guess it's a matter of personal taste and aesthetics... his game is ugly in my eyes. I truly believe he is unco and if not unco, he is VERY left-handed while playing on the right. It just looks wrong to me... and may explain his lack of dexterity in terms of his play.

Totally subjective, totally opinion based... but hey, It doesn't matter what I think.

Bottom line is, we have 2 left wingers on the field and it does my head in.
 
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