General What is the point of the Vulcans?

[wallacenz]

Listening to Allen Mclaughlin on radio sport this morning it sounds to me like the Vulcans have a tenuous relationship with the Warriors.

So what is their purpose, what is Auckland Rugby Leagues objective?

Surely if theyre using it to promote Auckland Rugby League it would be in their best interest to work with the Warriors and act as a reserve grade type team. I dont know how the Vulcans are run so Id be interested to hear from anyone who knows the facts, not speculation please.

What is their arrangement with the Warriors?
- Does Auckland Rugby League pay players that are not part of the Warriors program?
- Do Warriors pay them to field their reserves?
- Do the Vulcans just use those players however they see fit or do the Warriors have a say?
What is the Auckland Rugby Leagues objective with this team (ie mission statement)?
- Are they solely focussed on winning the NSW Cup?
- Are they helping develop Warriors reserves by playing them where the Warriors want them to develop?
- Do they just consider it a source of income for Auckland Rugby League?

Would the Warriors be better off funding their own NSW Cup team if they are able or allowed to. They could fill it with players they want or see potential in and manage those players how they want because atm it sounds like this isnt happening.

 

[warriors4eva]

yeah i heard the same interview and Allen seems as confused as most as to why the Vulcans isnt used as the step up to the Nrl, rather then promoting them straight out of NYC. He said alot of clubs use the NSW Cup to spell players who arent footing it in the nrl and mainly for those to get the contact of NSW Cup before hitting the Nrl. Makes sense to me but its not being run that way it seems for us.

 

[gREVUS]

What is their arrangement with the Warriors?
- Does Auckland Rugby League pay players that are not part of the Warriors program?
- Do Warriors pay them to field their reserves?
- Do the Vulcans just use those players however they see fit or do the Warriors have a say?
What is the Auckland Rugby Leagues objective with this team (ie mission statement)?
- Are they solely focussed on winning the NSW Cup?
- Are they helping develop Warriors reserves by playing them where the Warriors want them to develop?
- Do they just consider it a source of income for Auckland Rugby League?

taken from the Wiki on the vulcans

The Auckland Vulcans are an Auckland based rugby league club that participates in the New South Wales Cup. They are administered by the Rugby League Development Foundation. The team is selected from the Auckland Rugby League's Fox Memorial Competition and also uses Warriors squad members not selected for NRL duty.

so figuring that you can tell all about a company by looking at the people who run it i did a search on Rugby League Development Foundation only to find ... Nothing. I assume like the Rugby League Development Foundation in Aus that they are run by the NZRL but as they are actually Rugby League Development Foundation INC, i expected to be able to find out more about them rather quickly. so here i thought i would be able to answer your questions as easy as but... found a black hole instead

 

[Mixmasterreece]

The vulcans are a joke. They are a shambles, with local players electing to turn out for their fox side instead of the vulcans due to the payment structure.

 

[eamon]

play the Vulcans out of Wellington. Why does it have to be an Auckland organisation? Look at the difference between the Aucklaqnd Kings, Knights (or whatever) and The Wellington Phoenix as far as success, administative organisation, support, etc. In so many things Auckland seems to be run by people who have only their own interests at heart. "What can I get out of this?"
this should raise a few hackles

 

[gREVUS]

play the Vulcans out of Wellington. Why does it have to be an Auckland organisation? Look at the difference between the Aucklaqnd Kings, Knights (or whatever) and The Wellington Phoenix as far as success, administative organisation, support, etc. In so many things Auckland seems to be run by people who have only their own interests at heart. "What can I get out of this?"
this should raise a few hackles

I cant imagine that the warriors would want a bar of a team that plays out of a different city to them, due to travel issues

 

[BiggerD]

A few years ago we had the Aussie based "Newtown Jets" as a feeder team.

In fact the Bluebags supplied most of the players.

In 2000 Newtown sought and was granted admission to the NSWRL First Division competition, whereby the Jets acted as the feeder team to the NRL's Auckland Warriors.
The Jets achieved a creditable 8th place premiership finish in this first season, despite having been granted entry to the NSWRL’s flagship competition at the eleventh hour. 14 Auckland Warriors registered players appeared with Newtown that season, including 6 players who went on to be members of the New Zealand Warriors 2002 NRL Grand Final team.
The partnership with the Auckland Warriors ended at the end of the 2000 season when the Auckland-based consortium went into liquidation.

 

[eamon]

I cant imagine that the warriors would want a bar of a team that plays out of a different city to them, due to travel issues

Is it not worth looking at though, given the 'success' of the vulcans so far. I see your point though. Just putting it out there as a discussion point

 

[gREVUS]

I believe that the ARL are looking at reinstating the NRL B grade comp that used to exist. However i have not seen a timeframe on even making a desicion as to whether this is to be a goer or not.

The advantage this would have over the current format is that it would bring it back to a national platform, creating opportunity for teams to play each other nationaly, no more NSW cup, Queensland cup. After all if they put a team in Perth how will their situation be any different to ours or the storms, and with 3 clubs not in the main 2 states the % change enough to at least warrant a look at it.

 

[rugged]

it not worth looking at though, given the 'success' of the vulcans so far

I don't believe it is worth considering running the Vulcans in another city. If anything they need a tighter connection with the Warriors, not a looser one. Players who are in the Warriors wider squad need to be playing NSW cup and I don't see how this could happen if they live in another city.

We competed so well last year partly due to the fact that we had players like Seymour and Moon running around in reserve grade, this wouldn't have happened had the team been based elsewhere

 

[bigstu]

funny how the vulcans weren't a joke to people last season. how many people here have actually been to there games. last season they pretty much lost 13 players from there lineup including there coach of course they are gunna struggle. the team is used as a stepping stone to the nrl for the warriors but the thing is there is no one to promote to the top side this year due to there run of form only player worthy of selection is pita godinet. bring back richie blackmoore and they will improve

 

[Viking]

Listening to Allen Mclaughlin on radio sport this morning it sounds to me like the Vulcans have a tenuous relationship with the Warriors.

So what is their purpose, what is Auckland Rugby Leagues objective?

Surely if theyre using it to promote Auckland Rugby League it would be in their best interest to work with the Warriors and act as a reserve grade type team. I dont know how the Vulcans are run so Id be interested to hear from anyone who knows the facts, not speculation please.

What is their arrangement with the Warriors?
- Does Auckland Rugby League pay players that are not part of the Warriors program? Yes, 10 or so contracted players get 10K a year and any others are on match payments. They used to just get win bonuses and the players could get twice as much playing for one of the big Auckland clubs. Playing for wins means that if a player had to forfeit Fridays wages (and Sat morning) to travel to Aus but didn't win, the player would really be out of pocket so a lot stopped playing for them altogether.
- Do Warriors pay them to field their reserves? I dont think so.
- Do the Vulcans just use those players however they see fit or do the Warriors have a say? Their coach Ricky Henry, is (or was) on the Warriors payroll so they get more say than they used to. The Warriors have had less influence on some coaches in the past so if for instance, the Warriors wanted to try one of their players in a different position and the coach didn't think it would work then he didn't have to do it. Godinet to fullback would be an example I suppose. I believe the Warriors had less influence over Blackmore than they do Henry. The Warriors had a lot more depth last year though so it wasn't really an issue.
What is the Auckland Rugby Leagues objective with this team (ie mission statement)?
- Are they solely focussed on winning the NSW Cup? To give premier Auckland League players not contracted by an NRL club, other pathways to professional careers. The Warriors can only take so many local players but there's plenty of good ones in Fox footy. The idea is good IMO but a lot of the smaller Auckland clubs were dead against it and probably still are.
- Are they helping develop Warriors reserves by playing them where the Warriors want them to develop? They shouldn't be if it's at the expense of results but probably do now.
- Do they just consider it a source of income for Auckland Rugby League? It's a huge expense, there's virtually no revenue. 100K plus for player payments and way more than that in general expenses I was told. At one stage I heard the ARL was paying the travel costs for all visiting teams as well as their own travel costs, I don't think they do now though. The ARL have plenty of money.

Would the Warriors be better off funding their own NSW Cup team if they are able or allowed to. They could fill it with players they want or see potential in and manage those players how they want because atm it sounds like this isnt happening.

I don't think any NRL club owns the feeder club they're affiliated to. The good clubs have a culture of winning that we just don't have and that's built by trying to be successfull in every grade. The NSW Cup teams have it the toughest though because none of them get to keep a settled roster unless their affiliated NRL clubs stays relatively injury free. The Cantebury NSW cup team is full off fringe 1st graders that hardly every lose and as a result, those players are continually knocking on Haslers door for an opportunity. The Warriors don't have anything like that sort of depth. It doesn't seem like the Warriors are too concerned with the Vulcans fortunes this year which is a shame but it would've been good to see our champion juniors continue their winning ways in the Vulcans and our 1st grade team would have to benefit in the long term.

 

[Viking]

funny how the vulcans weren't a joke to people last season. how many people here have actually been to there games. last season they pretty much lost 13 players from there lineup including there coach of course they are gunna struggle. the team is used as a stepping stone to the nrl for the warriors but the thing is there is no one to promote to the top side this year due to there run of form only player worthy of selection is pita godinet. bring back richie blackmoore and they will improve

Strange that Blackmore left after coming so close but maybe he saw the writing on the wall and knew he wouldn't have the players this year to repeat last years form. Might be a bit of Oats vs Mt Albert thing given Bluey's background too.

 

[bigstu]

richie went over to france to coach a 2nd tier side with the chance at super league gig but the deal fell through while he was over there. i went to a game at the start of the season and saw him watching i the stands so he's back in nz i don't know why they don't give him his job back

 

[Viking]

richie went over to france to coach a 2nd tier side with the chance at super league gig but the deal fell through while he was over there. i went to a game at the start of the season and saw him watching i the stands so he's back in nz i don't know why they don't give him his job back

What club was that, I would've thought only Toulouse was any chance of promotion and they really need to win NL1 to make that a certainty? They look like a good organisation off the field though, that and the ground is more important to the ESL ultimately.

 

[wallacenz]

I don't think any NRL club owns the feeder club they're affiliated to. The good clubs have a culture of winning that we just don't have and that's built by trying to be successfull in every grade. The NSW Cup teams have it the toughest though because none of them get to keep a settled roster unless their affiliated NRL clubs stays relatively injury free. The Cantebury NSW cup team is full off fringe 1st graders that hardly every lose and as a result, those players are continually knocking on Haslers door for an opportunity. The Warriors don't have anything like that sort of depth. It doesn't seem like the Warriors are too concerned with the Vulcans fortunes this year which is a shame but it would've been good to see our champion juniors continue their winning ways in the Vulcans and our 1st grade team would have to benefit in the long term.

Thanks for the response. That all sounds like a bit of a mess and something the Warriors should be cleaning up before creating an academy and school comp. It seems to me the Warriors management have their priorities all wrong. Theyre thinking about the future instead of fixing and streamlining the current structure.

 

[tajhay]

Ritchie went over to coach the Leigh Centurions. His visa fell apart, so the club gave him a 'business manager role' at the club to satisfy the visa demands. He is still in the UK.

 

[Viking]

Thanks for the response. That all sounds like a bit of a mess and something the Warriors should be cleaning up before creating an academy and school comp. It seems to me the Warriors management have their priorities all wrong. Theyre thinking about the future instead of fixing and streamlining the current structure.

Yeah, they seem a bit obsessed with youth development. Slaughterhouse.sa and others made reference to the fact that the junior pathways here are already well established and the Warriors themselves have always had good development plans in place with various academies over the years so it's not really a new thing. It's good that they're looking to invest in school league etc but the sport itself needs a leg up to become stronger overall. There'd be a conflict of interest if the Warriors ended up grooming young players for careers in other NRL clubs so we can't expect them to do that, they're not that stupid. It should be the job of the NZRL but it hasn't happened. You don't see the Aussie NRL clubs having to organise the school or junior league comps.

The NZRL don't have the funds that the ARL have to provide local players with options so in my mind, the Vulcans and other pathways provided by the ARL are vitally important because if the opportunities aren't there in league, the ARU will provide those pathways to players coming through that aren't picked up by the Warriors.

For example, a talented centre who can play both codes, can quite easily pick up a decent pro union contract in Europe or Japan if he plays for Ponsonby here by virtue of their connections. I remember a boy that my son played with at Ponsonby Kelston who had four brothers all playing union in England and France, all placed into contracts by Ponsonby.

 

[¿N. ig-mah¿]

I'm off on a tangent here but I heard the other day that Vinnie and Louie Anderson's dad is coming down to Invercargill to spend some time with the Southland Rams to help develop them into a more competitive side and perhaps attract some more competition from other regions. ATM they reeaally only get a couple of games a year against Otago. I don't know how good this guy is, but its got to be good for league development as a whole in the country if the provinces get more competitive.

 

[warriors8]

Warriors have rich owners so why not buy some awesome NSW Cup players, let them build the Vulcans then we have a feeder team that can supply the Warriors with awesome replacements and leave the Toyota Cup players to just play Toyota Cup