InsideBall
2011 Warriors offloads: 386
2017 Warriors offloads: 181
*shrugs*
2017 Warriors offloads: 181
*shrugs*
Tragic
Contributor
Wouldnt a better approach be to apply different rules to each player or is that too complex? For example, Simon you are allowed to offload because you are smart/experienced enuf to know when you are in a position to perform an offload with a high probability of it coming off, Isaiah - you are new and just learning - no offloads just do your job for now and we will expand later.
And while we are at it, I want a suport runner off Simon everytime he hits it up because he is allowed to offload.
The blanket rules across the team approach seems lazy and stupid - if in fact thats what happened.
Assuming he gets this right and we go back to offloading what happens if we introduce a new player(s) who doesnt know when to offload and goes all jungle on us? Are we going to go back to square 1? No we wil rein him in, so why not use that approach now and give ourselves a chance at winning while we are at it?
Boats n Hoes
While agreeing with the general sentiment of your post id take issue with this statement.
Love Mannering but he has probably the worst "blind" offload in the team in that he will throw it out the back without knowing if there's anyone supporting or where the opposition is. Last year in particular he was responsible for many turnovers in this manner. Simon has a bit of size and strength which allows him to free his arms better than most in the team, but he's hardly innocent of the dunce turnover tag.
The last "natural" offloader we had was Matulino before he shut up shop (wether instructed or not who knows) and before that Mateo 2011 (post 2011 the bastard thought he was Cliffy Lyons and did all his ball playing before the line.....he became useless to this team when he started that), Sonny Fai was another (alas if he was playing now this wouldnt even be an issue), Sione Faumauina was special in this regard, and of course the greatest of them all......Ali
We can't defend our errors and we have many players with no football awareness to make a judicious offloads so not surprised there down, SK's risk adverse so will be driving the percentage play.
Just on that who else see's the hypocrisy there? Kearney in his playing days was one of the most prolific offloaders in the game, he'd rarely take the tackle without trying to offload the footy!
We have players coming in next year all with strong offloading games, Blair, Pulu, Tohu Harris, how does that play out next year? these players are all cut from the same cloth imo - and like SK himself, strong defensively with an offload, go figure.
Back to my original point, run out a side that's defensively stronger, one that can defend it's errors and we can afford to be more expansive with the ball ... in theory.
Just on that who else see's the hypocrisy there? Kearney in his playing days was one of the most prolific offloaders in the game, he'd rarely take the tackle without trying to offload the footy!
We have players coming in next year all with strong offloading games, Blair, Pulu, Tohu Harris, how does that play out next year? these players are all cut from the same cloth imo - and like SK himself, strong defensively with an offload, go figure.
Back to my original point, run out a side that's defensively stronger, one that can defend it's errors and we can afford to be more expansive with the ball ... in theory.
Last edited by a moderator:
YeahNah 4020
Contributor
Boats n Hoes
While we're at it the lack of offloading isnt even the biggest issue for me (part of it for sure). The inability of our oompas to leave bodies on the ground, dent the line, garner fast play the balls means our attack is basically reliant on running 2nd man plays cause the defensive line is never left staggard or caught short. Our attack's mostly based on Shaun Johnson's ability to beat a man and create numbers......which clearly when he isnt there is why we look so mud.
then again biggest issue is still defence........
then again biggest issue is still defence........
Afakasi247
I think that's more because the lack of players backing up...countless times this season a player would make a break or, as you mentioned, pop the arm free for an offloading opportunity to have nobody in near sight to palm off to.
It's been going on for a few seasons now where we've seen the offload disappear, becoming a noticeable trend during Cappy's run.
However I believe there are bigger issues needing to be addressed before increasing our offloading...that's something that's earned through go forward and respect for the ball.
An improving completion and error rate this season is moving in the right direction in that regard, recruitment now needs to address the other issue...
It's just part of our risk averse game plan where we play everything as safe as possible and hope the opposition hand us the game.
The lack of an aggressive mindset both in attack and defence is hurting us. Teams don't respect us, they don't fear us they know exactly what we are going to do every play. They don't have to worry about an Ali or Mateo offloading or getting smashed by a Wiki or a vilasanti.
Hence why we get smashed by mediocre teams like the dragons treating us like it's a training run against the reserves.
The lack of an aggressive mindset both in attack and defence is hurting us. Teams don't respect us, they don't fear us they know exactly what we are going to do every play. They don't have to worry about an Ali or Mateo offloading or getting smashed by a Wiki or a vilasanti.
Hence why we get smashed by mediocre teams like the dragons treating us like it's a training run against the reserves.
Boats n Hoes
This is an area in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck's game i feel he lets himself down in a bit. After he does his kick return, supporting the ball carrier should be his sole focus. Let the wingers hit it up then the forwards. I despair when i see him take 2 or 3 hit ups a set, his metre eating stat while looking impressive isnt actually what this team needs. Cant slight him for wanting to get involved, but do your kick return, then run off shoulders.....even if the offload doesnt come he'll still be putting a bit of doubt in the defensive line's mind and also helps stop the gang tackling of our one out hit ups.
Tragic
Contributor
he used to do that at the roosters, why does everyone at the warriors think they are a prop?
WellingtonOrca
While I haven't counted the number, you see him screaming past on the inside/outside of a hit up quite often. Probably the only player in the team that does.
Boats n Hoes
Not enough for mine. Especially given fullback is the one position that has the most free liscence on the park. 2 or 3 hit ups a set just saps his energy from doing these things.
Weno
Talking about off loads. How much I'mput would Kearney have had on the style our under 20s played this year.
We talk about how our young guys,should I say Polynesians just run over the top of the opposition,and don't learn to tackle.
This year we had a massive amount of points scored against us,we are a long way from addressing that problem.
But I noticed this year the team kept hammering the ball up the middle
We talk about how our young guys,should I say Polynesians just run over the top of the opposition,and don't learn to tackle.
This year we had a massive amount of points scored against us,we are a long way from addressing that problem.
But I noticed this year the team kept hammering the ball up the middle
Why would you bother supporting when you know there is stuff all chance of an offload
It's a bit of a chicken and egg argument. Do we not support because of no offloads or do we not offload because of no support?
I've seen more players not offload because of no support than players having support and deciding to pull the ball back in. That's been my observation.
Considering support play takes extra levels of desire and effort it's not hard for me to draw that conclusion based on our bunch.
Talking offload, How much imput would Kearney have had,over the style of play,of our nyc team.
They were the same as the top team stuff all offloads, and keeping it in the forwards
It's not as if they weren't capable of offloading. The day they played the Bulldogs,they looked brilliant throwing it around..
They won that game 36 -6 .I suspect Kearney must have ripped shit out of them,after that game,for going against the process.
They never played like that again.
Defence has always been our main problem with the young guys.There's a lot of work to be done there.
They leaked 892 points.
They were the same as the top team stuff all offloads, and keeping it in the forwards
It's not as if they weren't capable of offloading. The day they played the Bulldogs,they looked brilliant throwing it around..
They won that game 36 -6 .I suspect Kearney must have ripped shit out of them,after that game,for going against the process.
They never played like that again.
Defence has always been our main problem with the young guys.There's a lot of work to be done there.
They leaked 892 points.
jonno
Theres a mindset at the club which tells the players they can win by chucking the ball around and defense is for suckers...
Sometimes this works out extremely well and we make an quality opposition look terrible.
But then next weekend none of the offloads stick, passes go to ground and we get killed on turnovers by a spoon contender...
How do you change this? It looks to me that Kearney has forced the team to play grinding footy, 5 hitups and a kick, to flush out all the players who can't handle the hardest aspects of first grade.
Job well done I say. He should keep the U20s playing grinding footy so we don't get any more Hurrells wasting our limited development reasourses...
As for the game plan we all want to see, offloads to speedsters in space. I think the whole sporting world is crying out for us to unleash Shaun Johnson and Sheck through the middle. But that's never going to happen as long as we have passengers who can't, or won't, back up the errors for 80 mins.
If we want the offloads back we have to swing the axe first.
Sometimes this works out extremely well and we make an quality opposition look terrible.
But then next weekend none of the offloads stick, passes go to ground and we get killed on turnovers by a spoon contender...
How do you change this? It looks to me that Kearney has forced the team to play grinding footy, 5 hitups and a kick, to flush out all the players who can't handle the hardest aspects of first grade.
Job well done I say. He should keep the U20s playing grinding footy so we don't get any more Hurrells wasting our limited development reasourses...
As for the game plan we all want to see, offloads to speedsters in space. I think the whole sporting world is crying out for us to unleash Shaun Johnson and Sheck through the middle. But that's never going to happen as long as we have passengers who can't, or won't, back up the errors for 80 mins.
If we want the offloads back we have to swing the axe first.
Or you could go the Brad Arthur way and tailor your game plan to the roster you have, embracing their strengths and improving their weaknesses. Rather trying to be the Pams version of the storm.
jonno
I get the feeling SK has zero interest in a lot of the current roster..... and how they want to play.
I'm pretty much there as well. You can't talyor a game plan to guys that cant or wont defend their line.
