General Warriors Defence Thread

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wallacenz

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The Manly defender catches the ball clean, we lose possession, field position and an outside chance to score a try.

No coach instructs players to force offloads, when going to ground, when there's no support, when you have a 2 point lead with 50 mins to play.:meh:
when was that play?

Didnt Friend drop the ball? or was that a different play?

All our support runners are still waiting for the next play, with only Friend jogging in for the play the ball. There looks like someone hand up under Friend as if to say, don't throw the off load, there's nobody running support.

Normally that means pass it this way/6 again/kick ahead (pointing to space)
 
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jonno

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when was that play?

Didnt Friend drop the ball? or was that a different play?

All our support runners are still waiting for the next play, with only Friend jogging in for the play the ball. There looks like someone hand up under Friend as if to say, don't throw the off load, there's nobody running support.

Normally that means pass it this way/6 again/kick ahead (pointing to space)
It was the 4th tackle in the 27 minute. Manly 2014.

Yes but in this instance the hand wave means don't throw the ball to the opposition...
 
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wallacenz

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It was the 4th tackle in the 27 minute. Manly 2014.

Yes but in this instance the hand wave means don't throw the ball to the opposition...
..in your opinion

Was that pass Mannering threw the one that Friend dropped?
 
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Defence

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..in your opinion

Was that pass Mannering threw the one that Friend dropped?
Different one- the one friend dropped was last week against the roosters.
 
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wallacenz

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Different one- the one friend dropped was last week against the roosters.
O right, didnt register that it was against Manly. Brain in park
 
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jonno

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Our points conceded each game this season:

Green win, red loss...

Round 1. -22 points conceded.
2. -26
3. -24
4. -26

5. -22
6. -10

7. -20
8. -20

9. -13
10. -36
11. -30
12. -10 (Before SOO 1)

13. -32
14. -12
Bye
16. -14 (After SOO 2)
17. -26
Bye

19. -34 (After SOO 2)
20. -24 (SJ Injured)
21. -26
22. -26


4 games 30+ pts
10 games 20-29pts
5 games 10-19 pts
0 games -10 pts

Our total defense score is 13th and our position on the table is 13th...

The Storm Points Conceded 2017: 2nd, ladder 1st.
1 game 30+ pts
5 games 20-29 pts
9 games 10-19 pts
5 games -10 pts

Roosters: 3rd, ladder 2nd
2 game 30+ pts
3 games 20-29 pts
11 games 10-19 pts
3 games -10 pts

Sharks: 1st, ladder 3rd
2 game 30+ pts
2 games 20-29 pts
11 games 10-19 pts
4 games -10 pts

This is a problem that started in 2012 and hasn't improved, or even really been acknowledged by the club.
 
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Jordan G

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We held a team under 20 points 5 times......better than I thought it would be sadly.
 
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jonno

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Can someone smarter than me tell me how much of defense comes down to natural talent, and how much comes down to coaching and training?
 
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Raw Power

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Can someone smarter than me tell me how much of defense comes down to natural talent, and how much comes down to coaching and training?
I'm not claiming to be smarter than you Jonno but football smarts and attitude go a long way
 
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Far North Forever

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Can someone smarter than me tell me how much of defense comes down to natural talent, and how much comes down to coaching and training?
I can tell now you get taught to tackle as a youngster, how to make different tackles as a junior rep, how to read situations and wrestle as an NRL player and how forget everything as a Warrior.
 
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jonno

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I'm not claiming to be smarter than you Jonno but football smarts and attitude go a long way
I know attitude isn't something you're born with. And it's pretty hard to claim that a new born has footy smarts as well.
 
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facefacts

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Defense is attitude, coordination and desperation...if you defend out wide or at fullback, speed and acceleration are a must.

The players dont believe they can win the comp plain and simple, and the management presenting them with the very worst NRL coach available no doubt didn't help that disposition.
 
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BeastMode

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Can someone smarter than me tell me how much of defense comes down to natural talent, and how much comes down to coaching and training?
You have to want to tackle first before you discuss how to do it
 
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jonno

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Here we go again. Week after week after week.

Hoffman has the halfback covered. Ata has to tackle the edge forward and Kata and Ken are left with a three on two with nothing but the sideline to help them out. Both Ata and Kata are ball watching, and not focusing on marking up their opposite..
1.png

Kata moves in and backwards to help Hingano with the Dummy runner and leaves Ken outwide with 3 on one. He should have moved up and out to push the play towards the sideline and pulled Ata out with him so that the dummy running was between Ata and Hoffman, which would have created a 3 on 3 situation out wide.
2.png

The Rabbits fullback runs into the hole untouched.
3.png


Try time Rabbits.4.png
Basic stuff for a full time first grade center. This is why we are bottom of the ladder ATM.

Basic positioning errors on defense.
 
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jonno

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Satae running up and out of the line on an angle to smash the ball carrier.
1.png

Rabbits running through the hole Satae opened up.
2.png

It's not lack of heart. It's lack of brains that's killing the club. Guys playing off raw (great in the jungle but useless for footy) instincts, instead of training and discipline..

Satae got his man, but the bunnies scored a try. We've mastered the art of "play dumb and lose" footy.
 
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jonno

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An interesting look at missed tackles and final score correlations.

Bold for games we won the missed tackle stat...

S for Johnson out, and M for Mannering out.

S R26 A: 35 - 24, 16-28 L
R25 H: 20 - 21, 21-22 L
S
R24 A: 45 - 19, 18-36 L
S R23 H: 31 - 24, 16-26 L
S R22 A: 34 - 27, 10-26 L
S R21 H: 18 - 15, 12-26 L
S R20 A: 23 - 25, 12-24 L
R19 H: 26 - 28, 22-34 L
R17 A: 20 - 27, 22-26 L
R16 H: 29 - 21, 21-14 W
R14 A: 22 - 23, 32-12 W
R13 A: 29 - 39, 24-32 L
R12 H: 27 - 39, 28-10 W
M
R11 A: 46 - 18, 14-30 L
M R10 A: 29 - 17, 28-36 L
R09 H: 16 - 20, 14-13 W
R08 A: 37 - 15, 14-20 L
R07 A: 40 - 24, 8-20 L
R06 H: 13 - 15, 22-10 W
R05 H: 16 - 22, 28-22 W
R04 A : 36 - 16, 12-26 L
R03 A: 24 - 11, 12-24 L
R02 H: 28 - 18, 10-26 L
R01 H: 19 - 25, 26-22 W

The first 12 games, missed tackles correlated with winning/losing. And we only won the missed tackle count on one game when either SJ or Mannering were out, which was a slim 2 count margin in a game we lost anyway...

What's interesting is when Mannering was out we missed 75 tackles in those two games, while our collective opposition missed 35 between them.

But in saying all that we're ranked 4th lowest in missed tackles for the season.


Maybe even more interesting is that the top four teams for 'totals tackles completed' are the Roosters, Eels, Storm and Broncos... (We're 7th) I would have thought the worst teams would have to make the most tackles.

So the more tackles you complete the more likely you are to win this comp!!!

Even more interesting is the Tigers and Knights are 5th and 6th on the list of most tackles completed. But they are also 2nd and 4th for most missed tackles.

The storm are in the best spot being 12th for most missed tackles, and 3rd for most tackles completed.

Storm Completed Tackles (8205) + Missed Tackles (728): 8933.

Warriors Completed Tackles (7795)+ Missed Tackles (704): 8499

Kinghts Completed Tackles (7806) + Missed Tackles (813): 8619.

So the Storm Players made contact with the opposition ball carriers 312 times more this season than the Knights, and 434 times more times than the Warriors (18 times a game). Either the storm is playing their games a lot faster than we are, with more completed sets, or we're letting a lot more line breaks through. Probably a bit of both.


I think this stat shows up how many clean line breaks we're letting through (that don't show up on the tackle stats as missed tackles), which the top four teams aren't, hence their high completed tackle stats to accompany their high win/loss stats.

If you think about it in order of preference. A completed tackle is better than a missed tackle, and a missed tackle is better than a line break (as a missed tackle slows the ball runner down)..


2011 we were the top tackling team in the comp for completed tackles and missed tackles, so we probably gave away the fewest clean line breaks and played at the highest tempo in the comp, hence our GF appearance.

Gee our current mob are unfit...
 
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mt.wellington

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An interesting look at missed tackles and final score correlations.

Bold for games we won the missed tackle stat...

S for Johnson out, and M for Mannering out.

S R26 A: 35 - 24, 16-28 L
R25 H: 20 - 21, 21-22 L
S
R24 A: 45 - 19, 18-36 L
S R23 H: 31 - 24, 16-26 L
S R22 A: 34 - 27, 10-26 L
S R21 H: 18 - 15, 12-26 L
S R20 A: 23 - 25, 12-24 L
R19 H: 26 - 28, 22-34 L
R17 A: 20 - 27, 22-26 L 8619
R16 H: 29 - 21, 21-14 W
R14 A: 22 - 23, 32-12 W
R13 A: 29 - 39, 24-32 L
R12 H: 27 - 39, 28-10 W
M
R11 A: 46 - 18, 14-30 L
M R10 A: 29 - 17, 28-36 L
R09 H: 16 - 20, 14-13 W
R08 A: 37 - 15, 14-20 L
R07 A: 40 - 24, 8-20 L
R06 H: 13 - 15, 22-10 W
R05 H: 16 - 22, 28-22 W
R04 A : 36 - 16, 12-26 L
R03 A: 24 - 11, 12-24 L
R02 H: 28 - 18, 10-26 L
R01 H: 19 - 25, 26-22 W

The first 12 games, missed tackles correlated with winning/losing. And we only won the missed tackle count on one game when either SJ or Mannering were out, which was a slim 2 count margin in a game we lost anyway...

What's interesting is when Mannering was out we missed 75 tackles in those two games, while our collective opposition missed 35 between them.

But in saying all that we're ranked 4th lowest in missed tackles for the season.


Maybe even more interesting is that the top four teams for 'totals tackles completed' are the Roosters, Eels, Storm and Broncos... (We're 7th) I would have thought the worst teams would have to make the most tackles.

So the more tackles you complete the more likely you are to win this comp!!!

Even more interesting is the Tigers and Knights are 5th and 6th on the list of most tackles completed. But they are also 2nd and 4th for most missed tackles.

The storm are in the best spot being 12th for most missed tackles, and 3rd for most tackles completed.

Storm Completed Tackles (8205) + Missed Tackles (728): 8933.

Warriors Completed Tackles (7795)+ Missed Tackles (704): 8499

Kinghts Completed Tackles (7806) + Missed Tackles (813): 8619.

So the Storm Players made contact with the opposition ball carriers 312 times more this season than the Knights, and 434 times more times than the Warriors (18 times a game). Either the storm is playing their games a lot faster than we are, with more completed sets, or we're letting a lot more line breaks through. Probably a bit of both.


I think this stat shows up how many clean line breaks we're letting through (that don't show up on the tackle stats as missed tackles), which the top four teams aren't, hence their high completed tackle stats to accompany their high win/loss stats.

If you think about it in order of preference. A completed tackle is better than a missed tackle, and a missed tackle is better than a line break (as a missed tackle slows the ball runner down)..


2011 we were the top tackling team in the comp for completed tackles and missed tackles, so we probably gave away the fewest clean line breaks and played at the highest tempo in the comp, hence our GF appearance.

Gee our current mob are unfit...
Throw those numbers in a table. Cant make heads nor tails of it...
 
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jonno

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Maybe even more interesting is that the top four teams for 'totals tackles completed' are the Roosters, Eels, Storm and Broncos... (We're 7th) I would have thought the worst teams would have to make the most tackles.

So the more tackles you complete the more likely you are to win this comp!!!

Even more interesting is the Tigers and Knights are 5th and 6th on the list of most tackles completed. But they are also 2nd and 4th for most missed tackles.

The storm are in the best spot being 12th for most missed tackles, and 3rd for most tackles completed.

Storm Completed Tackles (8205) + Missed Tackles (728): 8933.

Warriors Completed Tackles (7795)+ Missed Tackles (704): 8499

Kinghts Completed Tackles (7806) + Missed Tackles (813): 8619.

So the Storm Players made contact with the opposition ball carriers 312 times more this season than the Knights, and 434 times more times than the Warriors (18 times a game). Either the storm is playing their games a lot faster than we are, with more completed sets, or we're letting a lot more line breaks through. Probably a bit of both.


I think this stat shows up how many clean line breaks we're letting through (that don't show up on the tackle stats as missed tackles), which the top four teams aren't, hence their high completed tackle stats to accompany their high win/loss stats.

If you think about it in order of preference. A completed tackle is better than a missed tackle, and a missed tackle is better than a line break (as a missed tackle slows the ball runner down)..


2011 we were the top tackling team in the comp for completed tackles and missed tackles, so we probably gave away the fewest clean line breaks and played at the highest tempo in the comp, hence our GF appearance.

Gee our current mob are unfit...
Reading through this thread, and I'm amazed at the turnaround.

I haven't check the stats, but we'd have to be dead set ahead of every team in the comp for completed tackles. Surely.
 
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Stalefish540

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Reading through this thread, and I'm amazed at the turnaround.

I haven't check the stats, but we'd have to be dead set ahead of every team in the comp for completed tackles. Surely.
I think you'll find we are numero uno in missed tackles, we are not even in top 5 of most tackles. 63 misses against Dragons alone, our scramble is saving our life atm.
 
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matiunz

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I think you'll find we are numero uno in missed tackles, we are not even in top 5 of most tackles. 63 misses against Dragons alone, our scramble is saving our life atm.
The ‘positive’ for the missed tackles is they weren’t jersey grabs of previous years, our missed tackles generally slowed the player down enough for cover to get there which is one of the big differences this year
 
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