General Vladimir Putin

Stone

1st Grade Fringe
May 19, 2012
1,235
Auckland
Cheers matiunz matiunz ... I had no idea these even existed ... might have to buy me one now.

I know he is a judo player & hunter ... but I never realized that Putin is also such an animal lover/male model/comedian.

Vladi P - The Wannabe Renaissance Man of Imperial Dictators 🤣

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Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
4,605
Say what you like about Putin, he is one competent operator. Where Russia was when he took over to where they are now. He has got a lot right.

It is hard to compare him to other world leaders so he should be judged with other Russian leaders, he is not so bad when you consider guys like Lenin and Stalin.
 

Hardyman's Yugo

1st Grade Fringe
Jun 2, 2017
2,771
Lancashire, England

Hardyman's Yugo

1st Grade Fringe
Jun 2, 2017
2,771
Lancashire, England

Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
4,605
This guy sure isn't a Putin fan. Is Putin democratic, I would say he is further that way than previous Russian leaders. What I say is that he led Russia out of the total crap of Yeltsin's days. The Americans thought that they had a sober Yeltsin they could control. They were wrong.

Russia's belligerence and invading. Can you really compare Russia to the EU and the US as far as foreign interference goes. I have outlined my Crimea thoughts previously. As far as threatening Baltic Nations US tank brigades exercises on the Russian border means Russian forces counter within their borders. 22 June 1941 still resonates.

Sure Russia's economy isn't that great, but whose is, and most do not have the crippling sanctions Russia has. Putin will go, but I suspect he will go on his terms.
 

Noitall

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 21, 2019
1,554
Better thread for the Navalny protests in russia. Fascinating the optics of this after americas capital hill siege. In america they were protesting for a move away from democracy and in russia they’re protesting for a move toward democracy. I think what happened in america will embolden the russians to start standing against the repression they’ve endured through the cause of navalny.
 
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Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
4,605
I think it is a case of be careful what you wish for. Instead of Putin they might end up with a nationalistic militant leader, a Russian Trump if you like. Age has taken care of it but a significant number of the Russian population were nostalgic for Stalin's times. 'Make Russia great again'. Doesn't bear thinking about. Russia does not have a history of democracy and the 90's were terrible for Russians, so it seems they accept authoritarian rule in general as long as they generally prosper.

Do I think Putin is a good guy, no, is he democratic, not really, is he focussed on Russia being better, hell yes, and he is open about that. My view is that he has been good for Russia, and the West doesn't realise what bullets they might have dodged with him there. The trick is how do they move on from him.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
18,097
Putin is the greatest conqueror in world history.

He installed a man in the Whitehouse and didn't have to fire a shot or sacrifice a single soldier.

No leader has come near that.
 
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Noitall

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 21, 2019
1,554
I think it is a case of be careful what you wish for. Instead of Putin they might end up with a nationalistic militant leader, a Russian Trump if you like. Age has taken care of it but a significant number of the Russian population were nostalgic for Stalin's times. 'Make Russia great again'. Doesn't bear thinking about. Russia does not have a history of democracy and the 90's were terrible for Russians, so it seems they accept authoritarian rule in general as long as they generally prosper.

Do I think Putin is a good guy, no, is he democratic, not really, is he focussed on Russia being better, hell yes, and he is open about that. My view is that he has been good for Russia, and the West doesn't realise what bullets they might have dodged with him there. The trick is how do they move on from him.
As we saw with the uprisings in Libya, Tunisia and Egypt there is an appetite for democracy in countries that have previously been suppressed. If putin was such a decent guy why doesn’t he let the country vote in fair elections? Surely they would vote him back if they were happy living in a russia under his rule and there would be no reason to poison oppositions.
 

Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
4,605
Libya after Gaddafi now have open slave markets, that's a great leap forward in democracy for Libya. Another great US regime change operation.

As for Russian elections, the general consensus is they are getting better, even a lot of his opposition say that Putin would have won in a landslide in the past.

As far as killing opponents, hard to prove and usually pushed by msm. One guy who was shot that Putin was blamed for the family are convinced it wasn't Putin.

Who really are the international criminals, George Dubya and Obama started wars on lies and without the permission of Congress or the UN. Putin is vilified for Crimea, the Crimean Parliament voted overwhelmingly to return to Russia from Ukraine, Putin demanded a referendum under international observers which resulted overwhelmingly in favour of returning to Russia. No one was hurt or injured during that process.

I think what is happening is Russia is trying to move towards democracy but will not be dictated to by the Americans. What happens after Putin, it could go either way IMO.
 
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wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
2,907
Tauranga
I think we are all looking at Russia through their past history.

They are a small, minor player in the world now. The single state of Texas has an economy as powerful as Russia. Russia will slowly slip down the world ‘ladder’ and lose relevance as China, India and Europe surround them as more powerful players.
 
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Noitall

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 21, 2019
1,554
Libya after Gaddafi now have open slave markets, that's a great leap forward in democracy for Libya. Another great US regime change operation.
Sometimes the will of the people doesn’t eventuate but that’s the gamble for a better life. I do agree though that that is also the gamble for russians, that the next isn’t worse. Who would have thought back in the 40s that Germany and Japan would become the democratic countries they are today.
 

Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
4,605
Sometimes the will of the people doesn’t eventuate but that’s the gamble for a better life. I do agree though that that is also the gamble for russians, that the next isn’t worse. Who would have thought back in the 40s that Germany and Japan would become the democratic countries they are today.

In the 1930's both Germany and Japan were Democracies, Hitler came to power democratically, then he instituted Dictatorship.

Japan were a Parliamentary Democracy until the Military took over, partly because of American sanctions, which eventually lead to Pearl Harbour.
 
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Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
4,605
We have been living in the American century, a lot of our outlooks have been shaped by American Film and Culture, I am not saying it is all bad but Americans look at the world in an American light, very inward looking, only about 25% hold passports.

Every American war movie shows the Americans winning the 2nd world war all on their own. I am not saying their role should be diminished because it was extraordinary. What I am saying there is a seemingly deliberate policy to downplay the Russian role.

Four out of five German losses were on the Eastern (Russian) front. The Western allies faced about 60 German Divisions, that by wars end were still functional albeit battered. The Russians completely destroyed about 160 German Divisions. Estimates are the Soviet Union lost 28 million people.

There has never been a war as savage as that in the Soviet Union. Hitler told his soldiers they would not be held accountable for any crime against the Russians, theft, rape, murder, fill your boots. What was the only response for the Russians, they were not fighting for Communism, they were fighting for their existence, men and women. Stalin used pre revolution heroes and awards to tap into this patriotism. The Russians refer to WW@ as the great patriotic war.

Russia was devastated by WW2, pretty much every family lost members, because of those losses and devastation WW2 means more to them. Putin had a brother die in the siege of Leningrad, His Father was a soldier there. Russia and Putin will take seriously. That is why NATO creeping closer to Russia's borders and running military exercises on the border is so threatening to the Russians. It actually strengthens Putin.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
16,061
Putin will go, but I suspect he will go on his terms.
I think most accomplished Russia watchers think Putin will leave office...in a box. How he gets there is the question. The best he can hope for is to die in his sleep.
Libya after Gaddafi now have open slave markets, that's a great leap forward in democracy for Libya. Another great US regime change operation.

As for Russian elections, the general consensus is they are getting better, even a lot of his opposition say that Putin would have won in a landslide in the past.

As far as killing opponents, hard to prove and usually pushed by msm. One guy who was shot that Putin was blamed for the family are convinced it wasn't Putin.

Who really are the international criminals, George Dubya and Obama started wars on lies and without the permission of Congress or the UN. Putin is vilified for Crimea, the Crimean Parliament voted overwhelmingly to return to Russia from Ukraine, Putin demanded a referendum under international observers which resulted overwhelmingly in favour of returning to Russia. No one was hurt or injured during that process.

I think what is happening is Russia is trying to move towards democracy but will not be dictated to by the Americans. What happens after Putin, it could go either way IMO.
Gizzyfan is the official Russian plant on this forum. ;)
 

dean

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 13, 2016
1,056
I think most accomplished Russia watchers think Putin will leave office...in a box. How he gets there is the question. The best he can hope for is to die in his sleep.

Gizzyfan is the official Russian plant on this forum. ;)
I knew you would flush one out sooner or later.
 
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