General Too young?

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bigstu

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lastnight would have to have been one of the least experienced sides in recent memories a total of 11 toyota cup grads in the 17 are we missing too much leadership in this side . with bluey unable to coach a grand finalist team do we have enough senior players to take charge of this side and save the season. its all well and good replacing price and tate and fien with talented players but when you replace leaders for rookies or talented players who show no leadership you are taking 1 step forward and 20 backwards
 
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facefacts

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lastnight would have to have been one of the least experienced sides in recent memories a total of 11 toyota cup grads in the 17 are we missing too much leadership in this side . with bluey unable to coach a grand finalist team do we have enough senior players to take charge of this side and save the season. its all well and good replacing price and tate and fien with talented players but when you replace leaders for rookies or talented players who show no leadership you are taking 1 step forward and 20 backwards

I dont know if it's leadership, players know what they should be doing, but learning to do those things under pressure and fatigue is the very thing they learn with experience.
we have too many young players playing next to other young inexperienced players...
 
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iago

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Well the answer is yes we do have the right blend of experience and youth. The problem at the moment is two of our most experienced players (Friend and Luck) are injured. The inexperience of the backline is largely highlighted by the centres, the rest have at least a season under their belt. And we aren't just replacing leadership with talented youngsters for the hell of it, it's the natural progression of any club. The trick is to find the right balance. I don't think the season will come down to leadership (or lack thereof), in any case it's not something that can just materialise mid-season. There is still plenty of experience running around. Guys like Ben Matulino may be a 'Toyota cup grad' but he's played 100 NRL games, can hardly lump him into the 'inexperienced' basket.
 
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fanrrior

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I don't know tbh, leadership is deffinetly a factor but I think they are also missing that desperation as well. As they get older the chance of ending their careers with a premier ring falls. Whereas the chance of getting replaced with a talented rookie grows with the club thinking of the future. Desperation, passion, drive, mongrel, what ever you want to call it is something that I fell our current squad is lacking. Usually it only takes a few players to stand strong to make the rest of the team get into gear, but so far I feel that only Lillyman, Vatuvei, Matulino are putting in that passion. Whilst Mannering, Taylor, Benry, Friend etc have all been solid it's the three names before them that are making plays that would normally fire the rest of the team up. I'm not sure if laziness is the right word for it as much as it is a lack of determination. But until they play with a hunger and the mindset to win, not just for their pay checks but for their teamates I fear we are only going to get worse.

At this point in time it may be too early to say its the coaches fault, I think i'll start pointing fingers at the end of the season.
 
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iago

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Usually it only takes a few players to stand strong to make the rest of the team get into gear, but so far I feel that only Lillyman, Vatuvei, Matulino are putting in that passion. Whilst Mannering, Taylor, Benry, Friend etc have all been solid it's the three names before them that are making plays that would normally fire the rest of the team up.

Really, Mannering? Just because he doesn't punch the ball away in frustration like Manu to show how much he 'cares' doesn't mean he's anything less. He's twice as important to that setup than Manu currently is. The number of last gasp tackles and general cleanup Mannering does (that Luck used to do) is amazing. He along with Matulino have been our best 2 forwards by a country mile.

Also Lillyman shows up with 'passion' when he cares to. The reason you notice it is because it isn't present every game. In fact other than the Broncos and last night, he's been well below what I expect from a possible Origin player.
 
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Wellington Warrior

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Harsh IMO... Only played a and full of games this season after his injury. Thought he was very solid last night.
 
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fanrrior

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Really, Mannering? Just because he doesn't punch the ball away in frustration like Manu to show how much he 'cares' doesn't mean he's anything less. He's twice as important to that setup than Manu currently is. The number of last gasp tackles and general cleanup Mannering does (that Luck used to do) is amazing. He along with Matulino have been our best 2 forwards by a country mile.

Also Lillyman shows up with 'passion' when he cares to. The reason you notice it is because it is present every game. In fact other than the Broncos and last night, he's been well below what I expect from a possible Origin player.
lol, your bird avatar is looking straight at me.

You might have misunderstood me bud. I didn't mean Lillyman and Vatuvei were doing better then Mannering, just that (imo) its the plays Lillyman etc have made that riles the rest of the team up. Just like how Ta'ai sparked up the team against the Roosters even though he wasn't exactly the MoM.
 
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Warriorholic

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I think we need to sign more aussies that bring that expieriance that we lack. Not players that come here to retire but quality players. I really do miss Tate sometimes and I think we have missed Luck all year, shame he got smashed but he will bounce back.
 
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playdaball

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I agree that the mix between youth and experience is not right. I also believe that the mix between NZ's and Aussies is not right either (especially next year).
 
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BA-AD Luck

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The one thing that pleased me last night was seeing that hurt from the younger players after the game (Johnson and Hurrell). I just don't think this is our year, just too many things going against us especially injuries to crucial players. Having said that, the experience that these players will gain is only going to be invested in the future. The key problem for mine for this year, is that in Game 1 we did not select the best 17 available and that set a comfortableness amongst positions. The other point, is the absolute refusal to mix up game plans (4 forward bench), or change tactics against various teams. Every team has beaten us using the same strategy and they know that if they hang tight with us, they're a good chance of pulling off the victory.
 
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Inruin

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i sometimes wonder if the strenth of our juniors can sometimes be to our detriment. i may be way off base here but i wonder if sj for example has had to learn the basics of the game (i know he has come from touch background and he is brilliant and all that) but playing behind a bigger more powerfull pack than majority of the u20's has meant that he hasnt had to rely on finishing out games, building pressure on oppositions etc in the same way that say a dce has had to. just an example. im not having a go and dont know if there is any basis to my thoughts and definately love having strong juniors. just a thought that they may find it easier to dominate the age group but when the field is a bit more even in first grade takes them some time to adjust or dont know how to hang in the tight games/in the grind? certainly think that in 2 to 3 seasons time we should have a very strong team assuming we dont chop and change our roster all the time
 
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BA-AD Luck

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i sometimes wonder if the strenth of our juniors can sometimes be to our detriment. i may be way off base here but i wonder if sj for example has had to learn the basics of the game (i know he has come from touch background and he is brilliant and all that) but playing behind a bigger more powerfull pack than majority of the u20's has meant that he hasnt had to rely on finishing out games, building pressure on oppositions etc in the same way that say a dce has had to. just an example. im not having a go and dont know if there is any basis to my thoughts and definately love having strong juniors. just a thought that they may find it easier to dominate the age group but when the field is a bit more even in first grade takes them some time to adjust or dont know how to hang in te tight games/in the grind? certainly think that in 2 to 3 seasons time we should have a very strong team assuming we dont chop and change our roster all the time
Agree for sure. SJ, Henry and Hurrell have all excelled in age graded teams and are exposed a wee bit in first grade. Not their talent or ability but their option taking is being challenged.
 
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iago

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Agree for sure. SJ, Henry and Hurrell have all excelled in age graded teams and are exposed a wee bit in first grade. Not their talent or ability but their option taking is being challenged.

That has sweet fuck all to do with the U20's though. Issues with option taking/decisions, experience etc will exist for all young players at all clubs regardless of the existence of an U20 competition.
 
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Tim burgess

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Couple of issues is getting blend of young and experience players right, unfortunately injuries to experience personnel have severely impacted this season

Also I worry about lack of Aussies in squad for next season. Luck will be missed and needs replacing. Unfortunately Taylor and Henry may develop in to good players but lack that toughness and leadership club requires at Moment Doing well in u20 is totally different to first grade, we need some battle hardened players.

This scenario has being coming for 3 years or so now and Bluey will cop the consequences eventually when results are not forth coming.
 
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mrblonde

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The thing about leadership is knowing when something's on and when it's not and laying down the law in relation to that.

Someone should have been talking behind the goalposts as the Sharks were converting their try, saying "Soon as we get that damn ball, we set up for a field goal! Save the fancy stuff for another game, boys. Let's get the draw then get to golden point." but I never got the impression that happened last night and TBPH I don't think that happens much at all - cue McClennan's comment about the Warriors being the quietest team he's coached.

And it's not "quietly confident" either, is it? The cool, calm, methodical, "robot like" if you want to be uncharitable approach. I thinks it's "nervous quiet" which sometimes we can get away with - the team can sometimes somehow by luck and/or skill get themselves out of jams they're in. But we didn't last night when we should've and it wasn't like we had to do anything particularly stunning to do that. A drop goal, up the middle. On top of this, I can't recall the last time the team went for a short kick off during a match and anyone apart from whoever kicked it off knew it was going to happen.

Have the Warriors themselves bought into the "Razzle Dazzle" garbage we get from the Australian commentators? Last night's penalty - the Warriors took the two points instead of going for the try. Now forget about the state of the game and whether or not the extra two points really made much difference, it's not the team's default position at all, is it? We've always been this way, I'm not blaming McClennan for this, or any of his predecessors and I'm not saying I want us to be negative in our approach all the time, just saying we need to understand and know when to take the conservative route.
 
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OMG

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I had been hoping that our youthful exuberance would be enough to see us be the dominant side we could be, but alas, the need for wise old heads is painfully clear.
I don't think Blueys Coaching is bad, it's more a case of not having enough mature heads on the roster.
I feel sorry for Simon not having the chance to mature as a player and get his game to where it possibly could be, because of having the responsibility of Captaincy placed on his shoulders, while defensively he is doing a fine job, you see it particularly in his attack which has been going backwards since he became Captain it also doesn't help playing outside of Maloney whose play making abilities are very limited. Simon not that long ago could run a hole and offload very well, he is losing this side to his game by trying to play percentage football.
I am absolutely filthy at Cleary for turning someone who could have been one of the best 2nd rowers to play the game into our best Prop, I miss his Ali like offloads and wide rangy runs and while he is still putting on some beautiful hits, I used to love the spot tackles he could make coming out of the line. Mutts and Russell have a very nice combination going and we look like a much better team when they are on the field at the same time, scary to think they are 3 to 4 years off their best football.
Mateo,Mateo,Mateo geez I think Cleary would have dropped him by now LOL, I wish he would stop trying to be another Prop and start running at halves and centres running off of a half, dumb play for someone that should be near the peak of his game.
We have definitely missed Friend but I wished they had made a massive play for Luke who was off contract at the same time.
Taylor is doing a fine job defensively but is offering next to nothing on attack giving SJ no running options and when he does run he's not running holes he is going into the meat of the defence, which is pretty much the same for Henry.
Konrad is looking like the best centre the Warriors have ever had but would probably be better off playing outside of SJ.
SJ is going ok his kicking game has been pretty sharp this year but were not giving him enough running options when he has the ball in hand which is why I would like to see him around Hurrell and can be guilty of over trying but at least he is trying, he would probably suit an old style of play with an inside and outside centre and being used as a sweeper in the defensive line as he gets a bit lost in the defensive line, he's definitely not scared to tackle he just gets a bit lost.
Manu isn't making anymore mistakes than usual, it's just that he seems to have lost a touch of pace I was hoping Omar would make a massive statement and give Manu that push into the forwards so many of us would like to see,but his first game was similar to Fish's and IMO from the few games of U20s I have seen Hiku could be the better of our wingers, he is hungry which is a very good thing to see..Tupou when getting wide ball has been good but generally just doesn't seem to have the necessary hunger.
Lousi has been solid and Jakey has been good, haven't seen enough of the Rapira's to make a good assessment.
My thoughts, plenty of games left, the season isn't over yet but we probably can only afford 2 more losses but I would be much happier with 10 wins.
 
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Sup42

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Good thread topic.

I don't think bringing in Aussies Is the best way to go in the long term , as a patch up solution It Solves things but those same names hold out the Under 20's guys who one day will Win the elusive premiership we seek.

We are having the teething problems Brisbane had in 2010. One Start over season won't kill us even if it seems like we have to fall from a great height ( GF last year )

If you look at our over all form last year we didn't actually make the top four and struggled to beat any top eight sides in the regular season , A freak run at the end of the year with Ivan departing set in motion the kind of script those guys needed to go an extra game further into the finals than they manged for five years, then they lost....plain and simple they Lost the last game.

So you can't say we have been a regular top four dominant force in the Comp and now shock horror Bluey has stuffed us up completely.

The Youth in the Side are not to blame for our down fall , they've been propping us up somewhat and credit where it's due have been developing nicely ( Glenn Fisiahi is the only one who had a horrible year to date ).

Ask yourself this I recon....Hurrell is he first grade material ? Henry ? SJ ? Omar ? of course they bloody well are and in time these dudes and some of their mates who have won the NYC twice....will just prove too talented for some of our So so performers to keep chugging along.

I still believe a Super team exists within...in the Jnr Ranks.
 
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bigstu

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maybe we don't have enough hard nose aussies in our team we only had 4 in the weekend
 
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BA-AD Luck

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That has sweet fuck all to do with the U20's though. Issues with option taking/decisions, experience etc will exist for all young players at all clubs regardless of the existence of an U20 competition.
My point is: in the U20s anything they tried worked because they were far superior to anyone else in the years they played U20s. Now the field is a bit more even and they're learning a tough lesson about when they can use the right plays at the right time. I am not blaming these players, its just one reason out of many as to why we have consistently stumbled throughout the year.
 
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Inruin

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We are having the teething problems Brisbane had in 2010. One Start over season won't kill us even if it seems like we have to fall from a great height ( GF last year )

I still believe a Super team exists within...in the Jnr Ranks.
or are we having teething problems like canberra are having who were also in that gf and also bringing their juniors through. it certainly is a fine line between promoting juniors and having enough experienced players in the line up.
 
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