General The Vent Your Spleen Thread

[Miket12]

I'm in the process of trying to deal with a Bureaucrat from Auckland Council. I have a client who wants to demolish a derelict house in Howick that's been graffitied and vandalized. It's in an area that doesn't have any stormwater connections and the house is currently being serviced by soakhole (holes in the ground filled with scoria which the water is supposed to drain out off into the surrounding ground).

My client wants to put some rainwater tanks to supply 'grey water' to the toilets, washing machine and outside taps and rain gardens so the amount of water needing to go into the replacement soakholes isn't so much. It also means that the amount of water he needs to 'buy' from WaterCare is a lot less because he's able to 'harvest' a lot of it from his roof on site.

But this little bureaucrat doesn't like the idea - so much for the Council trying to 'encourage' greener solutions. Instead, he's talking about my client needing to provide new stormwater connections to not only his site but too seven others and providing over 150m off new public stormwater lines - nice way to save Council some money in the future.

 

[mt.wellington]

I thought only developers had to include infrastructure previsions for future developments? What's with the other 7 intakes?

 

[Gizzyfan]

I'm in the process of trying to deal with a Bureaucrat from Auckland Council. I have a client who wants to demolish a derelict house in Howick that's been graffitied and vandalized. It's in an area that doesn't have any stormwater connections and the house is currently being serviced by soakhole (holes in the ground filled with scoria which the water is supposed to drain out off into the surrounding ground).

My client wants to put some rainwater tanks to supply 'grey water' to the toilets, washing machine and outside taps and rain gardens so the amount of water needing to go into the replacement soakholes isn't so much. It also means that the amount of water he needs to 'buy' from WaterCare is a lot less because he's able to 'harvest' a lot of it from his roof on site.

But this little bureaucrat doesn't like the idea - so much for the Council trying to 'encourage' greener solutions. Instead, he's talking about my client needing to provide new stormwater connections to not only his site but too seven others and providing over 150m off new public stormwater lines - nice way to save Council some money in the future.

As someone who works in that planning area. That little beurocrat is trying to get 'development contributions'. However , there is things like existing use right, might be moot as substantial changes are being made.s. The purpose of development contributions is to ensure developments pay their share for utilities. There should be a Duty Planner available for free advice during business hours. I'd suggest going to see them, usually planners are some of the best ones in Councils for getting good advice. Can't promise it will help, depending on the District Plan etc but well worth a shot

 

[Miket12]

Because we're replacing one house with another, there won't be any development contributions - it's more a case that this guy wants my client to 'upgrade' the public stormwater system it my client's expense now, and not the council expense in the future. Because the current dwelling is not connected to the existing infrastructure and the new dwelling, in my opinion, won't/shouldn't be, there's no additional impact on the Council system and, therefore, no development contribution.

The former Council in this area used to 'double dip' with their development contributions. The rules were changed in the early 2000's to allow Council's to seek development contributions not only on Land Use/Subdivision applications but also on Building Consents. The former Council would collect the contributions from the developer before the Titles would be granted on any piece of land but then latter ask the person applying for the Building Consent to either prove to the council that it had already been paid or pay it by the council would release the Code Compliance Certificate at the end of the building project. For a number of my clients, English is their 2nd language and they'd get a letter from Council and then pay this extra money over without questioning it. All Council needed to do was put an extra box in their database for any site and tick it once they'd received the DC from the developer but then they'd miss out on this 'extra' revenue stream.

I've got another one at the moment where I'm looking at going over a planner's head to his Team Leader over a driveway. The council's 'Standards' show that the driveway, except at entry/exit points and up into garages etc. needs to be at a max. 1:5 gradient (which is shown on the plans) except for parking areas which is a 1:15 max. gradient (which we also comply with) but the planner accessing the application wants the whole drive to be 1:8 - the problem is that 1:8 only is required for Business and Industrial zones and not residential, and because of the existing slope of the section, pretty difficult to achieve without major expense. I've asked him to provide documentation from the District Plan or Council standards to back up his view. If he can't, I'll go and see his Team Leader.

The difficulty with Duty Planners, is because they aren't actually accessing the application, they can really only offer advice, and not action anything.[DOUBLEPOST=1368315951][/DOUBLEPOST]

I thought only developers had to include infrastructure previsions for future developments? What's with the other 7 intakes?

Because the closest existing stormwater line is seven properties away, council not only want him to run a new public stormwater line from his site to the existing stormwater line but also provide seven new connections within the other existing properties for them to join up too either now or in the future. In other words, he doesn't upgrade the system just for his own property but, at his expense, upgrade the system for others existing houses to connect too.

 

[Spence]

Exactly what I was talking about a while ago, Mike12. Watercare are such wanks. It's a damn shame when the "government" is more concerned about money than actually caring for the people that elected them.

 

[Miket12]

Spence, does this soakhole/watertank/rain garden need to be designed by a registered Engineer and need a PS 1 or can a 'graduate'/student like yourself design it? If you're interested in supplementing your income, PM me.

 

[Lord Gnome of Howick MBE]

Exactly what I was talking about a while ago, Mike12. Watercare are such wanks. It's a damn shame when the "government" is more concerned about money than actually caring for the people that elected them.

Watercare are a CCO not an SOE.

 

[Spence]

Watercare are a CCO not an SOE.

I realise that, but the second part of my message was more general with the first part talking purely about WC.

 

[Lord Gnome of Howick MBE]

I realise that, but the second part of my message was more general with the first part talking purely about WC.

Oh.

 

[mt.wellington]

I only deal with the council about footings and steel work do the whole eatery thing is out if my field of expertise but I have favourites in every area and use them as often as possible. A little ass kissing can sometimes be needed but the relationships I have with them are so valuable...

 

[gREVUS]

when we moved from NZ to Aus, we had a property that we wanted to subdivide. land, roads, location of house on the section etc all good, was looking great then....

Council tell us that the sewage in the street is at capacity. no go on the subdivision. With a lot of work from me and a guy at the council and another guy looking to subdivide further down the street, we come up with a solution. put a holding tank into the sewage line and pump the waste out during the night when the street system is underutilised. Solution, success. On advice of the realestate agent didn't do the subdivide straight away, started the renovations on the existing house, (50 yrs old ex rental) but stopped on the renovations half way through. the idea being to sell the house as is to another developer who would purchase looking to make money on the new build land also out of the finishing the renovation. sounded like a good idea. Moved to Aussie, just waiting on the paperwork.

But then

got a letter from the council stating that the waste solution was unacceptable to any development less than 8 properties in size. WTF@!

Flew back to NZ went in to see council, they wouldn't move. Spoke to my engineers they said get a lawyer.

And then

the market crashed (it was about 5 and 1/2 years ago).

I was living in Aus, I desperately needed the money to buy a home for the family, I just couldn't afford a protracted legal battle with a council in another country and with the price falling every day I needed to move the house ASAP.
So now I have an unfinished house on an undividable section in Howick. I was lucky it sold in the end. The realestate agent reckoned it only sold because it was unfinished and people saw a chance to add value cheap. And yes it sold very cheap.

I lost my family a packet and I blame it all on the council. Were effectively back to being first home buyers in Melb, and if it weren't for the first home owners grant here probably wouldn't actually own my own home again.

I hate the council with a passion.

 

[wallacenz]

couldnt find the language thread from last year

tounge & cheek granted but im sure the majority hope to see a fully fit Hurell back in topside asap..
a fit Hurell turned into probably one of the most feared bruising centres in the NRL for opposition to face towards the latter part of 2013...
lay off da din-corned peef & taro next time bro....learn da lesson

It's 'tongue in cheek'

 

[Gizzyfan]

If you bastards think it is tough dealing with Councils, try working for one. I reckon that everything that happened on Monty Python will happen in a Council, I have seen the 'Dead parrot routine' played out for real over a fucked computer.

 

[Miket12]

If you bastards think it is tough dealing with Councils, try working for one. I reckon that everything that happened on Monty Python will happen in a Council, I have seen the 'Dead parrot routine' played out for real over a fucked computer.

In my experience, the best people to deal with at any Council are the one's who've spent some time working in "the real world" before they went to Council. They tend to see the intent of what is required more than the "letter of the law". Unfortunately, they also get frustrated with everything they see happening around them and a lot of them don't stay around long enough to make a difference or they get beaten down so much, they loose their "real world" perspective and become like the others.

 

[Gizzyfan]

In my experience, the best people to deal with at any Council are the one's who've spent some time working in "the real world" before they went to Council. They tend to see the intent of what is required more than the "letter of the law". Unfortunately, they also get frustrated with everything they see happening around them and a lot of them don't stay around long enough to make a difference or they get beaten down so much, they loose their "real world" perspective and become like the others.

You have hit the nail on the head Mike. A lot of what Planners etc see on a daily basis is plans and applications which based on their 'conceptual' training often puts them in lala land. I am in Planning Investigations and have done the job both sides of the ditch. The best Planner I worked with was a guy who left school with nothing. Built up a Forestry contracting business and then was seriously injured and then did a Planning degree as an adult student. He was head hunted eventually by a private consultancy. Says it all.

 

[wallacenz]

a coffee book loss ?

copybook?

 

[Sup42]

copybook?

yeah , Coffee book was tongue in cheek.....I forget who used it instead of Copy....Halligan or Peter Ropati

 

[wallacenz]

yeah , Coffee book was tongue in cheek.....I forget who used it instead of Copy....Halligan or Peter Ropati

I remember that vaguely. The NZ commentators are terrible when it comes to screwing up colloquialisms. I always thought McIvor was pretty onto it, then he started commentating and was just as bad as the rest.

 

[Sup42]

By the way

I remember that vaguely. The NZ commentators are terrible when it comes to screwing up colloquialisms. I always thought McIvor was pretty onto it, then he started commentating and was just as bad as the rest.

I used to hate Peter Ropo's " The thing about this team is " and " Bookends " and lots more. If they got rid of Nuggets and Had a Weekly Voss Show I'd be pretty happy. Looking forward to seeing Voss gritting his teeth and stab his pencil at the Camera as the two squeakers from the Bulldogs , Nuggets and Halligan talk over him.

Awen Gutenbiel is showing promise , he gets nervous but he's easier to watch than the shrill high 40/20 squeakers.

Beatham is offering another voice to that show , it might be quite good in a few years if Voss sticks around.

My favorite Media clip from this year was McIvor at the nines Draw talking about the Doggies. The Mad Butcher said something like ' No one gives a ******** about the Bulldogs Steven......shove it up you arse '

Come to think of I haven't seen the Butcher on that show for a while