General Tackling Tackle Tactics

ryno

1st Grade Fringe
May 8, 2012
2,819
Mod Edit:
In the light of the Alex McKinnon tragedy, a couple of threads are trending into the discussion of NRL tackling, so this is where it will continue. Technically an NRL issue rather than Warriors, but I will leave it in here for now.
Cheers!

_________________________

This is a tad off topic but do you think they will look at rewarding a nice tackle around the legs?

Dominant tackle if around the legs and you can hold onto them for a little bit to slow the ball player down like they used to do it in the olden days.

I know I have heard Gould suggest it before when he's commentating and with the Mckinnon tragedy it could prompt a change around tackling.
 
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mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
Jun 21, 2012
22,687
Mt. Wellington, Auckland
No luck for Lousi at judiciary
Thu 3rd April, 10:15PM
1396516856332.jpg
Sione Lousi (C of the Warriors is tackled by Keith Galloway and Robbie Farah (L) of the West Tigers during the NRL Rugby League match between the Warriors v Tigers at the Westpac Stadium in Wellington on Saturday the 29th March 2014. Photo by Marty Melville/Photosport.co.nz

Vodafone Warriors back rower Sione Lousi will miss three matches after the NRL judiciary tonight found him guilty of a grade two dangerous throw charge he faced for a tackle on Wests Tigers second rower Cory Paterson in last Saturday’s clash at Westpac Stadium in Wellington.

Lousi had accepted the dangerous throw charge but was at the hearing in Sydney with head coach Matthew Elliott tonight seeking to have the grading reduced.

If successful Lousi would have been clear to take the field against Cronulla at Remondis Stadium on Saturday.

https://www.warriors.co.nz/news/2014/04/03/no_luck_for_lousi_at_judiciary.html
 

Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
4,851
No luck for Lousi at judiciary
Thu 3rd April, 10:15PM
View attachment 8790
Sione Lousi (C of the Warriors is tackled by Keith Galloway and Robbie Farah (L) of the West Tigers during the NRL Rugby League match between the Warriors v Tigers at the Westpac Stadium in Wellington on Saturday the 29th March 2014. Photo by Marty Melville/Photosport.co.nz
Vodafone Warriors back rower Sione Lousi will miss three matches after the NRL judiciary tonight found him guilty of a grade two dangerous throw charge he faced for a tackle on Wests Tigers second rower Cory Paterson in last Saturday’s clash at Westpac Stadium in Wellington.

Lousi had accepted the dangerous throw charge but was at the hearing in Sydney with head coach Matthew Elliott tonight seeking to have the grading reduced.

If successful Lousi would have been clear to take the field against Cronulla at Remondis Stadium on Saturday.

https://www.warriors.co.nz/news/2014/04/03/no_luck_for_lousi_at_judiciary.html

So the guy that contributes to the causing of quadraplegia is deemed to be only 4 weeks worse than Louisi's tackle. He is the Judiciary's scapegoat because they didn't have the balls to give McLean a double digit penalty. They can say now they are taking a hard line.
 

Swanley

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 13, 2012
2,853
Tonbridge, Kent, UK
So the guy that contributes to the causing of quadraplegia is deemed to be only 4 weeks worse than Louisi's tackle. He is the Judiciary's scapegoat because they didn't have the balls to give McLean a double digit penalty. They can say now they are taking a hard line.
There is so much wrong with this post I cannot or do not have the time to respond in the correct manner.

Louisi's tackle could of had the same impact, 3 weeks is about right...take of the Warrior rose coloured glasses and it is a bad attempt at a tackle.....
 

Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
4,851
There is so much wrong with this post I cannot or do not have the time to respond in the correct manner.

Louisi's tackle could of had the same impact, 3 weeks is about right...take of the Warrior rose coloured glasses and it is a bad attempt at a tackle.....

You are right, and it deserved a penalty, but nearly half of McLean's?, The result of the tackle HAS to be taken into account. That is my point. Not to mention Louisi pleading guilty, McLean not guilty penalty loadings. It might not sound it but I do have sympathy for McLean, however it is McKinnon who is the victim here.

My view is that the judiciary set the McLean penalty as a half way, appease both sides of the argument. Louisi was next cab off the rank and they threw the book at him. (In no way is the fact he is a Kiwi a consideration by the Judiciary IMO)
 

Jay M

Warriors 1st Grader
There is so much wrong with this post I cannot or do not have the time to respond in the correct manner.

Louisi's tackle could of had the same impact, 3 weeks is about right...take of the Warrior rose coloured glasses and it is a bad attempt at a tackle.....

it's inconsistent one way or the other..

IF the judiciary was taking the result of the tackle into account (which apparently they do, but I disagree with)...
either McLean should have got longer because of the result on McKinnon... or Lousi should have got less because it caused no injury...

If they weren't taking it into account....
OR, alternately, they both should have got the same penalty ignoring the injury to the tackled player(s)....
 

mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
Jun 21, 2012
22,687
Mt. Wellington, Auckland
There is so much wrong with this post I cannot or do not have the time to respond in the correct manner.

Louisi's tackle could of had the same impact, 3 weeks is about right...take of the Warrior rose coloured glasses and it is a bad attempt at a tackle.....
I actually agree with Gizzyfan Melbournewarriorfan. Sione Lousi's 'victim' got up and rubbed his head. Jordan McLean's victim cant even rub his head let alone get up! How can McLean only get 7 weeks? Based on the Lousi scale he should have sat out the season.

As long as this is the new standard then I'll bear it. Clean record with a grade 2 dangerous throw charge equals 3 weeks straight away. The smallest smudge on your record is 4+ weeks. A repeat offender like Krisnan Inu who did a textbook perpendicular spear tackle last year should get 10 weeks. He only got 4 weeks...

961285_674701519257220_600013112_n.jpg
 

Dropped Balls

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 5, 2012
259
You are right, and it deserved a penalty, but nearly half of McLean's?, The result of the tackle HAS to be taken into account. That is my point. Not to mention Louisi pleading guilty, McLean not guilty penalty loadings.

Louisi was next cab off the rank and they threw the book at him. (In no way is the fact he is a Kiwi a consideration by the Judiciary IMO)

Louisi was facing a 2 game ban with an uncontested Guilty plea, or a 3 game ban if he contested unsuccessfully. Which is what happened. Whether or not the fact that he was a KIWI is something that can never be proved , every time we are on a charge. He was a Kiwi before the charge, and he's still one after it. That'sd one thing that can't be changed !!

I'm not sure I agree with you comment about " The result of the Tackle HAS to be taken into consideration."

I think if they go down that road, they are opening a door to God knows what. You'll have blokes rolling around all over the pitch, and staying down for an age, and so on.

Surely a tackle must be judged on how it is physically made, not on how a chap happens to fall, what position he gets his head into, or whatever.

Don't get me wrong. I have every sympathy with McKinnon, and his family.

But if you are going to judge every tackle on a resultant injury, we may as well go and watch netball. Because there won't be any proper tackles.

Guys will be too scared of the consequences.

There may be some of that happening anyway, in the next few weeks.

And to be fair, Louisi's tackle wasn't even in the same League as the Storm one. The commentators that I was listening to were laughing over the fact that it HAD been put on report, and conjecturing about what the 'old-time' players would think !

But in today's climate, I thought it was always going to end this way. Any tackle put on report is going to cop it for a few weeks.
Let's hope it settles down in a fair way.
 
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Swanley

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 13, 2012
2,853
Tonbridge, Kent, UK
I actually agree with Gizzyfan Melbournewarriorfan. Sione Lousi's 'victim' got up and rubbed his head. Jordan McLean's victim cant even rub his head let alone get up! How can McLean only get 7 weeks? Based on the Lousi scale he should have sat out the season.

As long as this is the new standard then I'll bear it. Clean record with a grade 2 dangerous throw charge equals 3 weeks straight away. The smallest smudge on your record is 4+ weeks. A repeat offender like Krisnan Inu who did a textbook perpendicular spear tackle last year should get 10 weeks. He only got 4 weeks...
McLean's tackle was not a bad tackle, it was the other two storm man mountains laying on top and Mckinnon tucking his head in which resulted in the accident.

Lousi's tackle wasn't even a tackle, it was a throw more appropriate to the WWE than the NRL.

i think Mclean was harshly dealt with to get 7 weeks! If there was no injury, would it have even got to the Judiciary? Were Lousi's "tackle" was akin to a headlock and throw.
 
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Dropped Balls

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 5, 2012
259
McLean's tackle was not a bad tackle, it was the other two storm man mountains laying on top and Mckinnon taking his head in which resulted in the accident..

Agreed. And there's been talk about 'Outlawing' the 'Gang Tackle"........but nothing seems to have happened in this instance.
As far as I know, the other 2 haven't even been charged with anything.

So the whole Report/Judiciary procedure is beginning to look like a bit of a farce.
 
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mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
Jun 21, 2012
22,687
Mt. Wellington, Auckland
McLean's tackle was not a bad tackle, it was the other two storm man mountains laying on top and Mckinnon taking his head in which resulted in the accident.

Lousi's tackle wasn't even a tackle, it was a throw more appropriate to the WWE than the NRL.

i think Mclean was harshly dealt with to get 7 weeks! If there was no injury, would it have even got to the Judiciary? Were Lousi's "tackle" was akin to a headlock and throw.
I take your point. Especially about the DDT move.

Your also right about the minimum suspension times. 3 weeks is the mandatory stand down period for a grade 2 dangerous throw charge. Sione Lousi's clean record would have allowed him 2 weeks if he pleaded guilty.

I'm not sure I agree with you comment about " The result of the Tackle HAS to be taken into consideration."
I think if they go down that road, they are opening a door to God knows what. You'll have blokes rolling around all over the pitch, and staying down for an age, and so on.
Dont think it'll get soccer bad. The aftermath of a tackle has to be taken into consideration and is. Remember when Kade Snowden got a lengthy suspension for breaking Ray Thompsons jaw? That was for 7 weeks as well. Jordan McLean got the same suspension as Sione Lousi with an added 4 weeks for the injury that Alex McKinnon received...
 

Dropped Balls

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 5, 2012
259
Jordan McLean got the same suspension as Sione Lousi with an added 4 weeks for the injury that Alex McKinnon received...

Is that correct ? Is that how they worked it out ? I'm not questioning what you are saying.

But I'm amazed. I really don't see how they can quantify an injury in terms of a subsequent suspension.

And because it isn't really quantifiable, I don't think they should try.

I accept that you are saying that they do. But how can they do that ?

What if the tackled guy [ leaving McKinnon out of it for the moment], broke his neck and died ?

What do they do then ? 15 weeks suspension ? It's a joke.

It's not 'DO-ABLE'. And it's not fair, on the tackler, the tackled, or the judges.

I know this is League, and not Court of Law, but 90% of cases are decoded on 'IINTENT'.

And in Sport, the 'INTENT' is to win the match. Not to maim or incapacitate, or kill the other guy.

And if that's the way they are really judging these things, I think they are getting it all wrong.

But....hey. Just what I think. That's all.
 

mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
Jun 21, 2012
22,687
Mt. Wellington, Auckland
Is that correct ? Is that how they worked it out ? I'm not questioning what you are saying.

But I'm amazed. I really don't see how they can quantify an injury in terms of a subsequent suspension.

And because it isn't really quantifiable, I don't think they should try.

I accept that you are saying that they do. But how can they do that ?
Didnt know about it until I did a little research on the matter the other day.

This is the link I should have showed you Jay M Jay M on the following post that I replied to in the NRL Round 3 Discussion thread...

https://www.nzwarriors.com/threads/nrl-round-3-discussion.35174/page-10#post-433081

Broken neck of Alex McKinnon added four weeks to Jordan McLean suspension
  • JOSH MASSOUD
  • THE DAILY TELEGRAPH
  • APRIL 03, 2014 4:47PM
MELBOURNE STORM’S JORDAN MCLEAN RECEIVES 7 MATCH BAN

JORDAN Mclean was handed a four-week extension of his ban as a direct result of Knights forward Alex McKinnon breaking his neck in the tackle that’s divided rugby league.

NRL judiciary chairman Paul Conlon today explained last night’s controversial judiciary decision to ban McLean for a total of seven weeks.

https://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/spo...clean-suspension/story-fni3gpfg-1226873359252

Being a DT article its really really short on content unless you go to the site and watch the countless videos they have posted up. Not viewable to residents of NZ sadly...










FOLLOW REACTION TO THE MCLEAN BAN IN OUR BLOG AND HAVE YOUR SAY ON THE SEVERITY OF THE SUSPENSION BY VOTTING IN THE POLL BELOW!


This video isn't encoded for your device


SPORTS LAWYER SAUL FRIDMAN: BAN SETS DANGEROUS PRECEDENT1:04
story-fni3gpfg-1226873359252







“The judiciary panel ruled that it was a grade two dangerous throw which carries 325 demerit points (a three game suspension),” the NRL said in a statement.

“A further 400 points were allocated after consideration by the panel of a range of factors including the injury suffered by Alex McKinnon.”
 
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gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
8,471
Is that correct ? Is that how they worked it out ? I'm not questioning what you are saying.

But I'm amazed. I really don't see how they can quantify an injury in terms of a subsequent suspension.

And because it isn't really quantifiable, I don't think they should try.

I accept that you are saying that they do. But how can they do that ?

What if the tackled guy [ leaving McKinnon out of it for the moment], broke his neck and died ?

What do they do then ? 15 weeks suspension ? It's a joke.

It's not 'DO-ABLE'. And it's not fair, on the tackler, the tackled, or the judges.

I know this is League, and not Court of Law, but 90% of cases are decoded on 'IINTENT'.

And in Sport, the 'INTENT' is to win the match. Not to maim or incapacitate, or kill the other guy.

And if that's the way they are really judging these things, I think they are getting it all wrong.

But....hey. Just what I think. That's all.
while watching NRL 360 they had a banner going the whole time at the bottom. it repeated a lot and one of the things on it was that the NRL Judiciary do take the outcome of the action into account when passing judgement. In the dialogue Paul Kent reported that there is a very clear linear punishment scale that they use as well as a very clean process in case anything ever goes to court. (just repeating what i saw and heard, best to watch it your self). Not often he agrees with the way the NRL do things but in this case he felt it was a clean cut decision re McKinnon.

I get the impression there is a lot of sympathy out there for the man accused of being the responsible party in a three man tackle. A guilty verdict was always going to happen and IMO i think that the judgement was the least they could give him.

In the situation of Lousi - I agree with Swanley - tackles like that do not belong on the pitch. the Judgement was probably fair given the timing of the incident and the fact that no one got hurt.

Now the Judiciary should come down hard on the Dogs for leaving an obviously injured (concussed) player out on the pitch during a game, if they really want to show that they are coming down hard on Player Saftey
 

sydneywarrior92

1st Grade Fringe
Jul 12, 2013
812
we may not like it, but this result for Lousi was as expected. He was always going to be made of as an example in light of what happened with Alex McKinnon, whether that is fair or not. Lets get on with it, and win against the Sharks. I just hope Ikahihifo takes this chance with open arms.
 

Swanley

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 13, 2012
2,853
Tonbridge, Kent, UK
we may not like it, but this result for Lousi was as expected. He was always going to be made of as an example in light of what happened with Alex McKinnon, whether that is fair or not. Lets get on with it, and win against the Sharks. I just hope Ikahihifo takes this chance with open arms.
I don't think he was made an example of...he made a dangerous throw on the newcastle player and he landed on his head! No actual rugby league tackle was attampted or made.
 
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t-wade23

1st Grade Fringe
Jun 7, 2012
736
I think it was fair call to get three weeks honestly that tackle was as good
A DDT as Jake the Snake Roberts or Randy Orton could of pulled off. Fair call IMO
 
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Jordan G

Guest
There was no way he was getting downgraded after what's happened the past week.

I'm not even saying that he would or should have if the McKinnon incident never occurred, but the fact that it did guaranteed that anything that looks potentially dangerous is getting viewed harsher than in previous years where he may have successfully downgraded it.

Really, anything that has to do with the head hitting the ground is not worth challenging because I doubt anyone is going to get any lenience or else the press will have a field day, especially in Sydney.

So does this mean Ikahihifo is definitely in? Then we just wait to see whether Mateo is fit or not.
 

Far Away Fan

Guest
I don't think he was made an example of...he made a dangerous throw on the newcastle player and he landed on his head! No actual rugby league tackle was attampted or made.

Swanley, I think that Sydney Warrior was saying that Sione Lousi was (also) going to be made an example of, due to what happened to Alex McKinnon. Even tho Lousi's tackle wasn't of course on McKinnon - it just happened at more or less the same time.
 

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