General Socialism vs Capitalism

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
15,493
Socialism vs Capitalism
MOD - Moved from the Kieran Foran thread...

Agree and waiting staff also rely on tips for additional income as well
Tips, what an interesting phenomenon. I found the service in restaurants amazing in the US, I was happy to tip 10%. Free enterprise at work if you ask me.

Here I rarely bother because of some socialist belief that all the tips should be shared among the staff by the owners.:rolleyes:
i think you have it wrong, the US sales and service people do not have to compete with workers in another country.
Oh yes they do. Wage competition goes right through an economy. If industrial workers were paid more so would service workers.
Agree and waiting staff also rely on tips for additional income as well, people are paid low wages to increase profits for shareholders ...it's as simple as that.
Geez, a true socialist in our ranks. Nobody owes anybody a living, unless one believes in socialism, and see how that theory has worked in the past. Greedy trade unions have stuffed it in the developed countries, England being a sad example.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Worried2Death

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 6, 2016
2,123
This is getting a bit newstalkZB but that was an excellent profile on Greg Foran, a little too much like a PR job for me to totally buy it. Walmart has had some despicable employment practices in the past, and I doubt Greg has been able to do much more than polish up the turd. I wonder who pays for the shit they call journalism these days. Bruce... are you Bruce Russell?
 

Swanley

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 13, 2012
2,733
Tonbridge, Kent, UK
Tips, what an interesting phenomenon. I found the service in restaurants amazing in the US, I was happy to tip 10%. Free enterprise at work if you ask me.

Here I rarely bother because of some socialist belief that all the tips should be shared among the staff by the owners.:rolleyes:

Oh yes they do. Wage competition goes right through an economy. If industrial workers were paid more so would service workers.

Geez, a true socialist in our ranks. Nobody owes anybody a living, unless one believes in socialism, and see how that theory has worked in the past. Greedy trade unions have stuffed it in the developed countries, England being a sad example.
Nice one, so where do you think profits go? I'm not a socialist but would like everyone to given a fair go... Ever called a company with an overseas call centre with English as a second language? Why do you think they move there ! It's not skill it's cheap wages....
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
15,493
Love how socialism is perceived as the enemy. Do you take a pension bruce bruce?
National Superannuation Pensions are paid from tax deductions during a working lifetime. I am still paying heaps of tax.
That is not socialism.
Bruce... are you Bruce Russell?
Who?o_Oo_O There is a story behind my name. We can save that for another day.:)
Walmart has had some despicable employment practices in the past,
I remember reading they were an eccentric bible belt family from Arkansas. They got rich by screwing people.:eek: Funny that, some people think you get rich by working hard.:(...

Back to topic, I don't think they chained their employees to the stores, or press ganged them from in the street. People worked there of their own free will, and if the stores didn't exist they wouldn't have a job...would they?
 

mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
Jun 21, 2012
22,485
Mt. Wellington, Auckland
Back to topic, I don't think they chained their employees to the stores, or press ganged them from in the street. People worked there of their own free will, and if the stores didn't exist they wouldn't have a job...would they?
There in lies the reason why Walmart pay their staff so little. They are too big to fail and know they can manipulate the US into making subsidies for them. Better to make concessions than have all those workers unemployed.

Morally bankrupt. Financially brilliant...
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
15,493
Nice one, so where do you think profits go? I'm not a socialist but would like everyone to given a fair go... Ever called a company with an overseas call centre with English as a second language? Why do you think they move there ! It's not skill it's cheap wages....
It is called the free market. I have lived in Asia where it is very cheap. Taxes are very low, there is no dole, no ACC, no sick pay, and no government pensions. How do people get by? Families stick together and help each other out, like they have been for 5000 years. So why shouldn't companies set up call centres in those countries?
There in lies the reason why Walmart pay their staff so little. They are too big to fail and know they can manipulate the US into making subsidies for them. Better to make concessions than have all those workers unemployed.

Morally bankrupt. Financially brilliant...
I am not defending the American corporate system getting handouts from the government. They argue they are free market but they are not. That is why their taxes are higher than in Asia and that is why they have so much debt, but that is another topic.
 

Swanley

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 13, 2012
2,733
Tonbridge, Kent, UK
National Superannuation Pensions are paid from tax deductions during a working lifetime. I am still paying heaps of tax.
That is not socialism.
No it's not, neither is paying people a living wage, there's reason things get shipped overseas, it's because the cost of living is cheaper, not because people are not prepared to work.

Pay decent wages, more people work, more people pay taxes, more available to Govts for spending...but people/shareholders are greedy, lower costs mean higher profits....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rizzah and gREVUS

Miket12

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 20, 2012
8,466
No it's not, neither is paying people a living wage, there's reason things get shipped overseas, it's because the cost of living is cheaper, not because people are not prepared to work.

Pay decent wages, more people work, more people pay taxes, more available to Govts for spending...but people/shareholders are greedy, lower costs mean higher profits....


I’m keeping out of this discussion because I just went online to look at where my KiwiSaver funds are invested and I’m one of those greedy shareholders: I have 1.11 shares in Walmart!!!

D3BCE188-57B8-4EED-A071-AE11A4A61CC9.jpeg
 

Hardyman's Yugo

1st Grade Fringe
Jun 2, 2017
2,544
Lancashire, England
No it's not, neither is paying people a living wage, there's reason things get shipped overseas, it's because the cost of living is cheaper, not because people are not prepared to work.

Pay decent wages, more people work, more people pay taxes, more available to Govts for spending...but people/shareholders are greedy, lower costs mean higher profits....
It’s not just owners/shareholders who cause the problem. Consumers have so much choice nowadays the price of basic commodities is coming down all the time.

You live in the UK, look at what Aldi and Lidl have done to shake up the supermarket sector in the last 10 years, mostly based on price and a reduced number of staff per store. Probably shafting their suppliers as well
 

Swanley

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 13, 2012
2,733
Tonbridge, Kent, UK
It’s not just owners/shareholders who cause the problem. Consumers have so much choice nowadays the price of basic commodities is coming down all the time.

You live in the UK, look at what Aldi and Lidl have done to shake up the supermarket sector in the last 10 years, mostly based on price and a reduced number of staff per store. Probably shafting their suppliers as well
agree but lidls pay a slighty higher wage I think as they do not give a staff discount. I guess currently being part of the EU increase the length of the supply chain and can make cheaper goods possible...and those producing cheaper goods prob, have lower standard of living costs...
 
  • Like
Reactions: bruce

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
8,161
There in lies the reason why Walmart pay their staff so little. They are too big to fail and know they can manipulate the US into making subsidies for them. Better to make concessions than have all those workers unemployed.

Morally bankrupt. Financially brilliant...
well said, what most people forget is that they are making massive profits on the the US taxpayers dime. Those food stamps that their staff need to survive are paid for by the tax payer. So ultimately this means that the tax payer is paying for the bonuses of the senior staff and the dividends of share holders.

All this part time work to avoid paying people what they deserve always comes back to bite the taxpayer, but when companies show record profits year in year out, then what we are seeing is the displacing of blame to the individual as a useless bludger instead of blame going to the company that doesnt pay them what they are worth and uses the government and your money to subsidize themselves, but is perceived by everyone to be amazingly successful.
 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
8,161
No it's not, neither is paying people a living wage, there's reason things get shipped overseas, it's because the cost of living is cheaper, not because people are not prepared to work.

Pay decent wages, more people work, more people pay taxes, more available to Govts for spending...but people/shareholders are greedy, lower costs mean higher profits....
Unless your in the top 1 percent of earners who probably dont pay tax anyway (due to all their shonky tax schemes) then the greedy people are paying more taxes than they need to to support the people they are screwing. So once again the rich get richer and everyone else picks up the slack
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlexM

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
8,161
It’s not just owners/shareholders who cause the problem. Consumers have so much choice nowadays the price of basic commodities is coming down all the time.

You live in the UK, look at what Aldi and Lidl have done to shake up the supermarket sector in the last 10 years, mostly based on price and a reduced number of staff per store. Probably shafting their suppliers as well
thats a big issue here with farmers getting told how much the supermarkets will pay, and many having to sell at cost or lower. I cant imagine it is any different in NZ
 
  • Like
Reactions: Worried2Death

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
15,493
thats a big issue here with farmers getting told how much the supermarkets will pay, and many having to sell at cost or lower. I cant imagine it is any different in NZ
Way back last century all fresh fruit and veg went through auction markets. So the supermarkets had to bid against smaller retailers for the product.

Then the supermarkets slowly came in and approached those suppliers who were getting top price. They offered them the price equal to the top auction price for the day to supply them direct. That was a 10% pay rise because their was no commission to be paid to the auctioneers.

Who could turn that down, so they didn't. In a very short time the auctions were losing their best suppliers, and of course their 10% commission. Gradually the auctions went out of business, it was slow but sure.

Now with the auctions out of the way, the smaller suppliers had no outlet except farmers markets and the like. Then the supermarkets started to screw the suppliers down on price, because they had no other large scale option.

Ever notice the quality and the price of fresh produce at supermarkets? Fortunately produce versions of the Mad Butcher are hitting the market, but it is not an easy business to be in. No wonder our groceries are very expensive by western standards.
 

AlexM

1st Grade Fringe
Feb 19, 2017
1,621
It is called the free market. I have lived in Asia where it is very cheap. Taxes are very low, there is no dole, no ACC, no sick pay, and no government pensions. How do people get by? Families stick together and help each other out, like they have been for 5000 years.

The are also lot of extremely poor disabled people begging on the streets in Asia....
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
15,493
The are also lot of extremely poor disabled people begging on the streets in Asia....
A lot of those are fronts for gangs. Those South East Asian countries have very strong economies and are growing. The wealth is very unevenly distributed but people get by just fine. The biggest problem is social advancement. However the way the west is going that isn't just an Asian thing, look at the US for example.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Off The Bench

mrblonde

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 14, 2012
3,572
Auckland
How such an obviously intelligent people person could raise such dysfunctional kids?

You'd be surprised how strong the connection is between kids who come from money and being screw-ups. 3 or 4 sets of family friends have become self-made millionaires and in every case, their kid/kids have not turned out particularly well.

And that's for a myriad of reasons, I'm not saying it's just the money, but it's part of it.
 

Last Game

27 Sep

40 - 28
6.5 Total Avg Rating
0.0 Your Avg Rating

Highest Rated Player

Lowest Rated Player

Compiled from 19 ratings