Player Shaun Johnson

Boats n Hoes

1st Grade Fringe
May 14, 2012
1,507
A couple of things, in the early years where was the Coaching to develop him into a more complete player. Secondly his team mates, with the exception of Mannering didnt give him the platfirm and support so he could develop. We are products of our environment and to me it is credit to him he achieved what he has.
Think you nailed it giz.

The largely overlooked fact when he came to grade he had about 5 coaches in his first 6 seasons. As well as not only trying to learn the game, that's 5 different philosiphies to try and buy into (i cant remember any other young half coming into grade having to contend with that)....i have no doubt this hindered especially his game management development.

Also consider the stable Cleary enviroment he entered first grade in 2011, with a senior halves partner in Maloney.....experience galore across the board.

Then from the next season onwards the Warriors brains trust going full retard, letting Cleary go, releasing over 700 games worth of first grade experience after getting sucked into the success of our u/20s and the mistaken belief that would automatically translate, allowing the "red bull" culture to infect standards (something Shaun himself tried to right but promptly got shut down for sticking his head out), revolving coaching door.......absolutely this all not only affected his consistency and development but the entire Warriors outfit which only just now, we might be seeing signs of it coming right.
 
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gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
8,075
Enjoy you sticking to your guns gREVUS gREVUS, but who in the last 10 years would you rate higher? I’m struggling to name 5 definitely better halves. Thurstons obviously a given and Cronk and Maloney given their successes but who else?
Are we talking individual brilliance or ability to take a team to a result, because i (obviously) see those as different things.

I personally rate team dynamics as the ultimate goal in driving a team to the GF.
Your right that cronk and malony are both up there
I would add (and i know this is controversial) Nathan Cleary, he has both the individual skills but is driving his team in the right direction. I really would have him ahead of SJ everyday of the week.
Can i count Jack Wighton as he has been pretty fantastic for the last couple of years?
Luke Kerry comes to mind

thats 5, Cronk - Malony - Cleary - Wighton - Kerry

cant believe that i cant put a queenslander in the mix after cronk, but i have never rated Cherry-Evans and while i want to put Cameron Munster up there, with Cameron Smith in the team, that point i made about leading really doesnt quite work plus hes injured almost as much as SJ

after these i kinda feel there is a fairly large melting pot where each player might step up on the day but doesnt have the consistency that your looking for that would make them much better than SJ
 
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Defence

Warriors 1st Grader
May 9, 2012
5,715
Are we talking individual brilliance or ability to take a team to a result, because i (obviously) see those as different things.

I personally rate team dynamics as the ultimate goal in driving a team to the GF.
Your right that cronk and malony are both up there
I would add (and i know this is controversial) Nathan Cleary, he has both the individual skills but is driving his team in the right direction. I really would have him ahead of SJ everyday of the week.
Can i count Jack Wighton as he has been pretty fantastic for the last couple of years?
Luke Kerry comes to mind

thats 5, Cronk - Malony - Cleary - Wighton - Kerry

cant believe that i cant put a queenslander in the mix after cronk, but i have never rated Cherry-Evans and while i want to put Cameron Munster up there, with Cameron Smith in the team, that point i made about leading really doesnt quite work plus hes injured almost as much as SJ

after these i kinda feel there is a fairly large melting pot where each player might step up on the day but doesnt have the consistency that your looking for that would make them much better than SJ
No u can’t count cleary and wighton- he said last 10 years not last 2 years.
So let me get this straight.
So you’re saying after cronk, thurston and Maloney (Overrated round here but anyway..) Sj is the next best half of the last 10 years???
Surely I’m misreading that- the way u carry on I’m surprised you’d have him in the top 100.
 

Dunedin warrior

1st Grade Fringe
Nov 10, 2014
995
Are we talking individual brilliance or ability to take a team to a result, because i (obviously) see those as different things.

I personally rate team dynamics as the ultimate goal in driving a team to the GF.
Your right that cronk and malony are both up there
I would add (and i know this is controversial) Nathan Cleary, he has both the individual skills but is driving his team in the right direction. I really would have him ahead of SJ everyday of the week.
Can i count Jack Wighton as he has been pretty fantastic for the last couple of years?
Luke Kerry comes to mind

thats 5, Cronk - Malony - Cleary - Wighton - Kerry

cant believe that i cant put a queenslander in the mix after cronk, but i have never rated Cherry-Evans and while i want to put Cameron Munster up there, with Cameron Smith in the team, that point i made about leading really doesnt quite work plus hes injured almost as much as SJ

after these i kinda feel there is a fairly large melting pot where each player might step up on the day but doesnt have the consistency that your looking for that would make them much better than SJ
I think you are a bit too team results focused there gREVUS gREVUS . Keary has been carried to premierships on the back of two very good sides. Wighton too has benefited greatly from a side that has is far superior on paper that any SJ has played for.

Thurston had his highs and lows at the Cowboys but it was the quality of help the Cowboys got him that won them a premiership. Not saying SJ is on the same level but the Warriors performances without Johnson and to a lesser extent the Sharks suggest that SJ has never had that quality support around him.
 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
8,075
I think you are a bit too team results focused there gREVUS gREVUS . Keary has been carried to premierships on the back of two very good sides. Wighton too has benefited greatly from a side that has is far superior on paper that any SJ has played for.

Thurston had his highs and lows at the Cowboys but it was the quality of help the Cowboys got him that won them a premiership. Not saying SJ is on the same level but the Warriors performances without Johnson and to a lesser extent the Sharks suggest that SJ has never had that quality support around him.
I totally agree, but the question becomes would those sides have still achieved without them? In the case of Thurston, i often felt that he was being held back by his team for years. He actually had to improve in his leadership and drove his team to success. I agree he was no Andrew Johns, but take him out of the team and would they have succeeded without him?

Maybe with Luke Keary your argument is correct. Maybe he could be replaced by SJ and the team would get the same results. However his longevity at finals level of the game makes me think otherwise. Certainly looking at the results that the warriors achieved while SJ was a player and the results without him, there seems to be no real difference which tells me he is not a Thurston or a Cronk or a Cleary. But he may be a Keary.

Personally I really rate Wighton and i see him as a leader type which imo is different to SJ. But as i have acknowledged as SJ is losing pace he is having to play a different type of game. That game i rate higher than what he did for the warriors. But its still not at the top 5 level yet IMO.
 
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